OKC - Dallas - Toronto v2

[Godaddycurse]

Borrowing from Jay and Chuck's idea

OKC trade: Hayward (S&T 3/39)
OKC receive: cash

Dallas trade: THJ, Powell, Prosper, MIA 2028 2nd
Dallas receive: Hayward (S&T)

Toronto trade: cash
Toronto receive: THJ, Powell, Prosper, MIA 2028 2nd

Why for OKC: get some cash for a player they werent keeping anyways
Why for Dallas: add hayward as 6th man and free up MLE for DJJ
Why for Toronto: sell capspace for a prospect and a 2nd
Why for Hayward: play on a contender for the MLE basically

[Colbinii]

This seems like a massive overpay for Hayward. I think he is a sub-tax MLE player at this point.

[Godaddycurse]

This seems like a massive overpay for Hayward. I think he is a sub-tax MLE player at this point.

My comp for him was joe ingles who got 11M last year. Maybe partial/non guarantee for the later year(s)?

If hayward deserves less then take out powell and make it 2025 TOR second and cash instead of prosper and 2028 mia 2nd

[jayjaysee]

think it needs to be more like 3yr33 at best (maybe 3yr30?) not 3yr39. But think the magic number is around 10 per year, though I never did the exact math honestly..


Dallas needs to leave room for Kyrie and PJ incentives. The team needs to hope they convey.

But considering the full MLE is being used, hard capping means nothing. Already will be. So I like the idea.

(Don’t see why Prosper is needed here still, would still be going for the Toronto second instead)

[Colbinii]

This seems like a massive overpay for Hayward. I think he is a sub-tax MLE player at this point.

My comp for him was joe ingles who got 11M last year. Maybe partial/non guarantee for the later year(s)?

Hayward has been a negative BPM player for 3 years now, trending down at an incredible rate. Meanwhile he has missed a chunk of every season since 2020.

Ingles was older but he was closer to neutral BPM player, a much easier skill-set to maintain impact [shooter and high IQ passer] and signed for 1/11 essentially.

How non-guaranteed can a S+T be?

[Godaddycurse]

This seems like a massive overpay for Hayward. I think he is a sub-tax MLE player at this point.

My comp for him was joe ingles who got 11M last year. Maybe partial/non guarantee for the later year(s)?

Hayward has been a negative BPM player for 3 years now, trending down at an incredible rate. Meanwhile he has missed a chunk of every season since 2020.

Ingles was older but he was closer to neutral BPM player, a much easier skill-set to maintain impact [shooter and high IQ passer] and signed for 1/11 essentially.

How non-guaranteed can a S+T be?

Anything after 1st year can be partial/non guaranteed i believe

[Godaddycurse]

(Don’t see why Prosper is needed here still, would still be going for the Toronto second instead)

I think its 2025 2nd to eat THJ alone and Prosper + 2nd to eat powell and THJ. Or atleast thats what Chuck did in his thread

[Apz]

Dont get what mavs need hayward for. Imo taking on him cancels out thjs value

[Mavrelous]

Cut out OKC, and replace Prosper/MIA 2nd with TOR 25 2nd/BOS 25 2nd

Dallas trade: THJ, Powell, TOR 25 2nd, BOS 25 2nd
Dallas receive: Nothing

Toronto trade: cap space
Toronto receive: THJ, Powell, TOR 25 2nd, BOS 25 2nd

[daoneandonly]

This seems like a massive overpay for Hayward. I think he is a sub-tax MLE player at this point.

It absolutely is, its really more a way for TOR to get Prosper and a 2nd at Dallas' expense. Hayward is washed.

[patman66]

This seems like a massive overpay for Hayward. I think he is a sub-tax MLE player at this point.

It absolutely is, its really more a way for TOR to get Prosper and a 2nd at Dallas' expense. Hayward is washed.

Yeah, I think Hayward chases a ring , I say Taxpayer MLE

[Godaddycurse]

Cut out OKC, and replace Prosper/MIA 2nd with TOR 25 2nd/BOS 25 2nd

Dallas trade: THJ, Powell, TOR 25 2nd, BOS 25 2nd
Dallas receive: Nothing

Toronto trade: cap space
Toronto receive: THJ, Powell, TOR 25 2nd, BOS 25 2nd

BOS 2025 2nd is not enough to eat Powell's 8M guaranteed esp when its split over 2 years. that is likely pick 55-60

[Texas Chuck]

(Don’t see why Prosper is needed here still, would still be going for the Toronto second instead)

I think its 2025 2nd to eat THJ alone and Prosper + 2nd to eat powell and THJ. Or atleast thats what Chuck did in his thread

I think Olynyk under contract is notably more valuable than a ST Hayward to an above market contract you would regret, no?

Because by your math Dwight Powell costs Prosper to dump and that can't make sense. 2/$8M could be stretched out over 5 years if Dallas had to. You don't have to give up a recent 1st round pick to dump that little money. Especially not attached to a guy worth having on your roster at barely over a vet min.

[Godaddycurse]

(Don’t see why Prosper is needed here still, would still be going for the Toronto second instead)

I think its 2025 2nd to eat THJ alone and Prosper + 2nd to eat powell and THJ. Or atleast thats what Chuck did in his thread

I think Olynyk under contract is notably more valuable than a ST Hayward to an above market contract you would regret, no?

Because by your math Dwight Powell costs Prosper to dump and that can't make sense. 2/$8M could be stretched out over 5 years if Dallas had to. You don't have to give up a recent 1st round pick to dump that little money. Especially not attached to a guy worth having on your roster at barely over a vet min.

i agree and thats why i changed Prosper + TOR 2025 2nd in your thread to Prosper + MIA 2028 2nd here. I think an early 2nd in next year's strong draft is likely worth multiple future 2nds, so i returned some value to Dallas that way

I'll outline my math:

THJ = 2025 TOR 2nd OR prosper to dump (i have them worth equally, but others may differ)
Powell = MIA 2028 2nd to dump

It's debatable if Prosper right now is worth more than 2025 2nd given his recent 1st round pick status. I just don't see any easy path to minutes for him next few years and by the trade deadline i'm pretty sure 2025 TOR 2nd will be worth more. In terms of value to Toronto, I would actually prefer 2025 TOR 2nd given that it gives us an extra year of cost control (OMP will have 2 yrs left by the time we make our pick with the 2025 2nd). I put Prosper here because i think Dallas would rather keep the TOR 2nd as future trade bait.

I do think hayward is a better fit for Dallas' needs of a secondary playmaker off the bench and opening at the 3 spot

[jayjaysee]

(Don’t see why Prosper is needed here still, would still be going for the Toronto second instead)

I think its 2025 2nd to eat THJ alone and Prosper + 2nd to eat powell and THJ. Or atleast thats what Chuck did in his thread

I think Olynyk under contract is notably more valuable than a ST Hayward to an above market contract you would regret, no?

Because by your math Dwight Powell costs Prosper to dump and that can't make sense. 2/$8M could be stretched out over 5 years if Dallas had to. You don't have to give up a recent 1st round pick to dump that little money. Especially not attached to a guy worth having on your roster at barely over a vet min.

Yeah, unless you’re just saying Powell doesn’t belong on an NBA roster (plenty have said that) I don’t see how his contract can be that big a negative? Isn’t his minimum contract like 2.5-2.8 million? He’s a bigger negative to teams trying to skate the tax or apron or maximize cap space, of course.. But if none of those things factor in..

He can only be like 2.5 million over paid combined over the next two years to a team that wants a decent deep bench big that can play big minutes sometimes?

Unless he’s just not an NBA player?

[BeiBeau]

I think its 2025 2nd to eat THJ alone and Prosper + 2nd to eat powell and THJ. Or atleast thats what Chuck did in his thread

I think Olynyk under contract is notably more valuable than a ST Hayward to an above market contract you would regret, no?

Because by your math Dwight Powell costs Prosper to dump and that can't make sense. 2/$8M could be stretched out over 5 years if Dallas had to. You don't have to give up a recent 1st round pick to dump that little money. Especially not attached to a guy worth having on your roster at barely over a vet min.

i agree and thats why i changed Prosper + TOR 2025 2nd in your thread to Prosper + MIA 2028 2nd here. I think an early 2nd in next year's strong draft is likely worth multiple future 2nds, so i returned some value to Dallas that way

I'll outline my math:

THJ = 2025 TOR 2nd OR prosper to dump (i have them worth equally, but others may differ)
Powell = MIA 2028 2nd to dump

It's debatable if Prosper right now is worth more than 2025 2nd given his recent 1st round pick status. I just don't see any easy path to minutes for him next few years and by the trade deadline i'm pretty sure 2025 TOR 2nd will be worth more. In terms of value to Toronto, I would actually prefer 2025 TOR 2nd given that it gives us an extra year of cost control (OMP will have 2 yrs left by the time we make our pick with the 2025 2nd). I put Prosper here because i think Dallas would rather keep the TOR 2nd as future trade bait.

I do think hayward is a better fit for Dallas' needs of a secondary playmaker off the bench and opening at the 3 spot

Are we 100% confident Houston wouldn’t take Powell for free? I’m certainly not. Might even be a couple teams who would take Powell.

[BeiBeau]

I do think that Dallas’s biggest need this offseason besides retaining DJJ is improved bench shooting. But I don’t think Hayward is trending towards being a NBA player sooner then later.

And no chance Dallas is paying prosper to dump Powell. Cash is more then enough to get off of Powell’s 3 million above the minimum contract.

[Godaddycurse]

I think its 2025 2nd to eat THJ alone and Prosper + 2nd to eat powell and THJ. Or atleast thats what Chuck did in his thread

I think Olynyk under contract is notably more valuable than a ST Hayward to an above market contract you would regret, no?

Because by your math Dwight Powell costs Prosper to dump and that can't make sense. 2/$8M could be stretched out over 5 years if Dallas had to. You don't have to give up a recent 1st round pick to dump that little money. Especially not attached to a guy worth having on your roster at barely over a vet min.

Yeah, unless you’re just saying Powell doesn’t belong on an NBA roster (plenty have said that) I don’t see how his contract can be that big a negative? Isn’t his minimum contract like 2.5-2.8 million? He’s a bigger negative to teams trying to skate the tax or apron or maximize cap space, of course.. But if none of those things factor in..

He can only be like 2.5 million over paid combined over the next two years to a team that wants a decent deep bench big that can play big minutes sometimes?

Unless he’s just not an NBA player?

His archtype imo is just not valued at all these days as a traditional rim rolling big who doesn't protect the rim or rebound that well. He wouldnt get minutes on playoff teams and rebuilding teams are better off giving minutes to develop youngsters.

[Godaddycurse]

And no chance Dallas is paying prosper to dump Powell. Cash is more then enough to get off of Powell’s 3 million above the minimum contract.

I think teams much prefer paying a future 2nd than 5M cash from the owner's pockets

[Texas Chuck]

I think Olynyk under contract is notably more valuable than a ST Hayward to an above market contract you would regret, no?

Because by your math Dwight Powell costs Prosper to dump and that can't make sense. 2/$8M could be stretched out over 5 years if Dallas had to. You don't have to give up a recent 1st round pick to dump that little money. Especially not attached to a guy worth having on your roster at barely over a vet min.

Yeah, unless you’re just saying Powell doesn’t belong on an NBA roster (plenty have said that) I don’t see how his contract can be that big a negative? Isn’t his minimum contract like 2.5-2.8 million? He’s a bigger negative to teams trying to skate the tax or apron or maximize cap space, of course.. But if none of those things factor in..

He can only be like 2.5 million over paid combined over the next two years to a team that wants a decent deep bench big that can play big minutes sometimes?

Unless he’s just not an NBA player?

His archtype imo is just not valued at all these days as a traditional big who doesn't protect the rim or rebound that well. He wouldnt get minutes on playoff teams and rebuilding teams are better off giving minutes to develop youngsters.

I think he's perfect on a young team. Works harder than everyone. Smart, great teammates. Has deficiencies as a player for sure, but he does two things a young team would want from a vet -- he plays all out every play on both ends and his elite rim running helps a young guard you want to develop.

Agree he has no place in a playoff rotation. But I can't imagine Dwight Powell can't be worth a roster spot in a league where Jordan, Morris, Boban, Taj, etc still have one.