PelicAllen- with a new twist

[YayBasketball]

CLE trades: Allen + pick #20
CLE gets: Stewart + #5

DET trades: Stewart + #5
DET gets: McCullom + #20 + #21

NOP trades: McCullom + #21
NOP gets: Allen

Here's a fun twist to the Allen to Pels idea, without Ingram involved. With Ingram's contract situation and lowered trade value, the Cavs and Pels get creative to make an Allen deal happen in a different way.

Cavs replace Allen with Stewart, a much better complimenting big to Mobley with Stewart's improving 3-point shot and rugged rebounding. He's also on an affordable long-term deal. To make up for the talent gap, they get the #5 overall pick for their #20 pick. They can keep this pick to get a contributing rookie wing (Knecht? Matas? Holland?)- or they can flip it for veteran players (follow-up trade later). They still have the Garland piece to trade or keep for further retooling.

Pistons get a mature, veteran leader who beings elite floor spacing for young Cade and co. To improve their win-now chances, Langdon gets a guy he's familiar with by moving Stewart and moving down in the weak draft to take 2 later swings in the 20's. They could also absorb Nance or Niang in different versions of this trade.

Pelicans get their Center target to give them 30+ minutes of stellar Center play. While not a "unicorn" floor spacer, Allen boosts their big play in every other area and provides vertical spacing for Zion and co. Trading away McCullom clear the way for starter Trey and more guard minutes for Hawkins and Daniels. They still have the Ingram situation to maneuver with, either trading him for a playmaking guard (Trae, Murray, Garland) or even negotiating a below max extension with BI to improve his trade value.


****Follow-up Trade for Cavs****

CLE trades: LeVert + pick #5
CLE gets: Kuzma + Kispert + #26

WAS trades: Kuzma + Kispert + #26
WAS gets: LeVert + #5

This follow up trade could be wrapped into the original trade or done as a follow up afterwards. Cavs get 2 valuable depth pieces to help space the floor for Mitchell and Mobley, hoping Kuzma can have a PJ Washington effect on a new team. They also can take a flyer on a prospect with pick #26.

Wizards step forward deeper into their rebuild, giving them a chance to add a second high impact rookie to their young squad. Assuming they take Sarr or Risacher at #2, they can take someone like Topic, Sheppard, or Dillingham at pick #5.

[YayBasketball]

Post trade rosters (with more moves to still be made):

Cavs:

Mobley/ Niang?
Stewart/ Wade
Kuzma/ Okoro?
Strus/ Kispert
Mitchell/ Merrill
......(Garland?)

Pistons:

Duren/
Ausar/
Cade / Fonteccino
McCullom / Grimes
Ivey?/ Sasser
......(+ lots of cap space)

Pelicans:

Allen/ Nance?
Zion
Ingram?/ Dyson
Murphy/ Hawkins
Herb / Jose

Wizards:

Bagley / Holmes
Advija
Risacher
Coulibaly / Levert?
Poole / Topic

[Skybox]

A little too good for NOLA, IMO…CJ’s value isn’t there anymore. Allen is a stud on a good deal. Stewart’s no big deal, but #5 could be. Maybe Hawkins to DET too? (Maybe NOLA keeps #21 in that scenario).

[jbk1234]

If the Cavs love whoever is there at No. 5, maybe if the Pistons take back Niang as well, but there's no way they do the Wizards part. Not sure they do Levert for Kuzma straight up due to Mobley's extension, and they pass altogether on Kispert.

[louc1970]

I think the Pistons need to continue gathering young talent rather than vets. No single player is turning them into a playoff team.

[YayBasketball]

A little too good for NOLA, IMO…CJ’s value isn’t there anymore. Allen is a stud on a good deal. Stewart’s no big deal, but #5 could be. Maybe Hawkins to DET too? (Maybe NOLA keeps #21 in that scenario).

Fair critique. Thanks for your level-headed constructive feedback opinion.

The idea of the Pistons prioritizing high-level veteran play and leadership to help their existing young talent reach their potential, over adding even more highly-drafted rookies in need of development -- looms large for me. While CJ may not be as valuable to some contending or true rebuilding teams-- think the Pistons are in a unique position where they'd highly value his skillset and leadership to reshape the team culture. Pistons still get two mid 1sts to swing on, and Langdon did help find Murphy at pick #17 and Herb at #35.

[YayBasketball]

I think the Pistons need to continue gathering young talent rather than vets. No single player is turning them into a playoff team.

Makes sense for sure, from an informed fan opinion. But from ownership and management who just set a record for most consecutive losses and was a league embarrassment, needing to sell an enjoyable product to the masses of casual fans--- do you think they're content with continuing to gather young talent? Seems like they're ready to take a few swings on some good veteran players with leadership.

[Texas Chuck]

Feels like a really big overpay for CJ. I think there is a chance if Detroit called New Orleans and said we'll just take his contract, the Pels might well do that. But no reason to also swap 5 for two picks in the 20's.

[Godaddycurse]

that needs to be ingram instead of CJ

[jbk1234]

Feels like a really big overpay for CJ. I think there is a chance if Detroit called New Orleans and said we'll just take his contract, the Pels might well do that. But no reason to also swap 5 for two picks in the 20's.

Agreed. Portland has picks 7 and 14, they have Simons, and need to get off salary. Even if the Pistons were open to trading back in order to add vet talent, they'd have better options.

[Astaluego]

Pistons are wildly overpaying to get CJ, who I have at a slightly positive value at best...

Stewart+#5 to CAVS

Allen+#20 to NOP

Murphy/Nance/Liddell to PISTONS

[jbk1234]

Pistons are wildly overpaying to get CJ, who I have at a slightly positive value at best...

Stewart+#5 to CAVS

Allen+#20 to NOP

Murphy/Nance/Liddell to PISTONS

If the Pelicans are open to adding Murphy, the Pistons get cut out and the Cavs just take him.

[tidho]

I'm at least intrigued by the Allen/Stewart idea. No idea if CLE would do it, and who they'd target at #5 probably depends on other unrelated moves.

Credit for a fresh idea though.

[jbk1234]

I'm at least intrigued by the Allen/Stewart idea. No idea if CLE would do it, and who they'd target at #5 probably depends on other unrelated moves.

Credit for a fresh idea though.

The problem is there's no way that Detroit makes that trade. They don't even get Allen. They get CJ.

[Ell Curry]

Pistons say no, but I think there might be a Stewart-Allen 3 way framework that makes sense, though probably with Ingram involved.

[axeman23]

I'm at least intrigued by the Allen/Stewart idea. No idea if CLE would do it, and who they'd target at #5 probably depends on other unrelated moves.

Credit for a fresh idea though.

The problem is there's no way that Detroit makes that trade. They don't even get Allen. They get CJ.

Yeah, I like the trade a lot from Cavs end (wouldn't touch the WASH follow-up with a 10 foot pole, though...). and I DO understand the OP's logic for getting a few veterans in there to steady the ship/start honing the skills of the young talent they HAVE. I mean we look at OKC, they're now looking at moving off 3rd year, 21 yr old Giddey because of talent overlap with other youth. This is a possible danger for DET, if they just keep acquiring young talent that aren't home-runs in definable team roles. But yeah, DET are definately owed more value from Pel's end...

[YayBasketball]

I'm at least intrigued by the Allen/Stewart idea. No idea if CLE would do it, and who they'd target at #5 probably depends on other unrelated moves.

Credit for a fresh idea though.

Yea sounds like CJ and stuff for Syewart and 5 is a non-starter. Even for a Pistons team desperate for good veterans, even in a weak draft.

Let's brainstorm some workarounds here. Allen or Stewart are upgrades for the Pels, but I like the idea of top starter Allen more. And Stewart seems like a good replacement big next to Mobley for the Cavs.

Allen to NOP
Stewart + ? to CLE
? to DET

I'll admit Daniels included to CLE makes sense, but I'm reluctant to trade Dyson because I'm high on his potential, and including future picks should be saved for their star guard upgrade, right?

Pels need a playmaking guard and Center upgrades. I think if Ingram's value is really low, Griffin will just keep him for now, try and work an extension now or hope his play at the start of next season improves his trade value. Or any trade with him should be focused on getting a true playmaking floor spacing perimeter player.

[jbk1234]

I'm at least intrigued by the Allen/Stewart idea. No idea if CLE would do it, and who they'd target at #5 probably depends on other unrelated moves.

Credit for a fresh idea though.

Yea sounds like CJ and stuff for Syewart and 5 is a non-starter. Even for a Pistons team desperate for good veterans, even in a weak draft.

Let's brainstorm some workarounds here. Allen or Stewart are upgrades for the Pels, but I like the idea of top starter Allen more. And Stewart seems like a good replacement big next to Mobley for the Cavs.

Allen to NOP
Stewart + ? to CLE
? to DET

I'll admit Daniels included to CLE makes sense, but I'm reluctant to trade Dyson because I'm high on his potential, and including future picks should be saved for their star guard upgrade, right?

Pels need a playmaking guard and Center upgrades. I think if Ingram's value is really low, Griffin will just keep him for now, try and work an extension now or hope his play at the start of next season improves his trade value. Or any trade with him should be focused on getting a true playmaking floor spacing perimeter player.

I think Ingram's willingness to extend at a reasonable number is the key to him being perceived as a real trade asset. You can work with him taking 20-25% of the cap, but if he wants 30-35% that becomes problematic.

[the_process]

Feels like CLE is going to keep Mitchell.

Garland and Allen to NOP for Ingram, Daniels, the 25 LAL 1st, and the 27 MIL 1st.

[YayBasketball]

[
I think Ingram's willingness to extend at a reasonable number is the key to him being perceived as a real trade asset. You can work with him taking 20-25% of the cap, but if he wants 30-35% that becomes problematic.

Great point. You would think after the season he just had and his inefficient play style - that his agent would get feedback on the market and be open to less than max extension talks. That changes everything, really. Opens up his trade market significantly and even let's Pelicans consider extending him and hoping he has a much better season with increased 3 point attempts.