Page 1 of 3
Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 11:01 am
by pipfan
This makes so much sense
Simons for Howard and the Denver pick
Port needs to cut $-this saves a ton. They add a forward prospect and a pick next year and go into this year with
Scoot/Brogdon
Sharpe/Brogdon
#7/Thybulle
Grant/Murray/Williams
Ayton/Williams
Plus they have a few other young guys and the #14. They clear cap space for now and future years, and go all in on their young back court plus the #7. The Den pick could be sneaky good next year-one injury to Jokic and, with the depth of the West, that pick could be nice.
Orl adds scoring and goes with
Suggs/Anthony
Simons/Black
Franz/#19
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/Wagner
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 11:38 am
by Skybox
pipfan wrote:This makes so much sense
Simons for Howard and the Denver pick
Port needs to cut $-this saves a ton. They add a forward prospect and a pick next year and go into this year with
Scoot/Brogdon
Sharpe/Brogdon
#7/Thybulle
Grant/Murray/Williams
Ayton/Williams
Plus they have a few other young guys and the #14. They clear cap space for now and future years, and go all in on their young back court plus the #7. The Den pick could be sneaky good next year-one injury to Jokic and, with the depth of the West, that pick could be nice.
Orl adds scoring and goes with
Suggs/Anthony
Simons/Black
Franz/#19
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/Wagner
Love it but I think it’s a little light for POR…ORL could add a couple srps. I’m glad you recognize the value of ORL absorbing the salary.
How about ORL adds Cole Anthony and another protected frp and takes Brogdon too? Scoot/Sharpe/Cole is a formidable young backcourt for years.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 11:43 am
by JRoy
Skybox wrote:pipfan wrote:This makes so much sense
Simons for Howard and the Denver pick
Port needs to cut $-this saves a ton. They add a forward prospect and a pick next year and go into this year with
Scoot/Brogdon
Sharpe/Brogdon
#7/Thybulle
Grant/Murray/Williams
Ayton/Williams
Plus they have a few other young guys and the #14. They clear cap space for now and future years, and go all in on their young back court plus the #7. The Den pick could be sneaky good next year-one injury to Jokic and, with the depth of the West, that pick could be nice.
Orl adds scoring and goes with
Suggs/Anthony
Simons/Black
Franz/#19
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/Wagner
Love it but I think it’s a little light for POR…ORL could add a couple srps. I’m glad you recognize the value of ORL absorbing the salary.
How about ORL adds Cole Anthony and another protected frp and takes Brogdon too? Scoot/Sharpe/Cole is a formidable young backcourt for years.
Zero interest in Anthony. Would rather stick with OP or similar deal and retain Brogdon.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 11:50 am
by Myth
Skybox wrote:pipfan wrote:This makes so much sense
Simons for Howard and the Denver pick
Port needs to cut $-this saves a ton. They add a forward prospect and a pick next year and go into this year with
Scoot/Brogdon
Sharpe/Brogdon
#7/Thybulle
Grant/Murray/Williams
Ayton/Williams
Plus they have a few other young guys and the #14. They clear cap space for now and future years, and go all in on their young back court plus the #7. The Den pick could be sneaky good next year-one injury to Jokic and, with the depth of the West, that pick could be nice.
Orl adds scoring and goes with
Suggs/Anthony
Simons/Black
Franz/#19
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/Wagner
Love it but I think it’s a little light for POR…ORL could add a couple srps. I’m glad you recognize the value of ORL absorbing the salary.
How about ORL adds Cole Anthony and another protected frp and takes Brogdon too? Scoot/Sharpe/Cole is
I do this version, but I push for a version with Black. Black and an Orlando pick are closer to Simons value, while I’m not a Jett believer. The Nuggets pick is also pretty weak in a Simons trade. But if we are getting 2 potentially late firsts and a project, that makes sense enough I part with both Simons and Brogdon.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 11:59 am
by giberish
OP feels like very good value for Portland. I guess I value Simons less than most. I feel like his extra-special bad defense might not just be a Portland thing. He also seems completely expendable for the Blazers as Brogdon is a better 3rd guar to pair with Scoot and Sharpe.
For Orlando, if I was adding Simons (and he wouldn't be a top target) I'd want to move Anthony for a bench wing shooter - or move Anthony to keep enough cap space to sign a bench wing shooter. That probably takes a 3rd team though.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 12:04 pm
by Skybox
Myth wrote:Skybox wrote:pipfan wrote:This makes so much sense
Simons for Howard and the Denver pick
Port needs to cut $-this saves a ton. They add a forward prospect and a pick next year and go into this year with
Scoot/Brogdon
Sharpe/Brogdon
#7/Thybulle
Grant/Murray/Williams
Ayton/Williams
Plus they have a few other young guys and the #14. They clear cap space for now and future years, and go all in on their young back court plus the #7. The Den pick could be sneaky good next year-one injury to Jokic and, with the depth of the West, that pick could be nice.
Orl adds scoring and goes with
Suggs/Anthony
Simons/Black
Franz/#19
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/Wagner
Love it but I think it’s a little light for POR…ORL could add a couple srps. I’m glad you recognize the value of ORL absorbing the salary.
How about ORL adds Cole Anthony and another protected frp and takes Brogdon too? Scoot/Sharpe/Cole is
I do this version, but I push for a version with Black. Black and an Orlando pick are closer to Simons value, while I’m not a Jett believer. The Nuggets pick is also pretty weak in a Simons trade. But if we are getting 2 potentially late firsts and a project, that makes sense enough I part with both Simons and Brogdon.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 1:25 pm
by orlando_joe
i do not see magic trading for a guard that is not 2-way..sign fa..no assets maybe...even that i really do not see it
still think if portland moves simons will not get what they think
he may get a mid first and a 2nd or 2 with no bad money...if he gets more i think bad money goes back...do not see good prospect a first plus no bad money..maybe just me?
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 2:55 pm
by tiderulz
orlando_joe wrote:i do not see magic trading for a guard that is not 2-way..sign fa..no assets maybe...even that i really do not see it
still think if portland moves simons will not get what they think
he may get a mid first and a 2nd or 2 with no bad money...if he gets more i think bad money goes back...do not see good prospect a first plus no bad money..maybe just me?
a player that spent his rookie year in the G league and a late 1st is not a lot
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 3:29 pm
by AaronB
Simons is a unicorn. He is the worst defender of his generation by a wide margin per EPM.
If the Magic just can’t stay away from a bad deal, offer Houstan for Simons. If Portland says no, then it will be one of the best trades never made.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 3:44 pm
by orlando_joe
tiderulz wrote:orlando_joe wrote:i do not see magic trading for a guard that is not 2-way..sign fa..no assets maybe...even that i really do not see it
still think if portland moves simons will not get what they think
he may get a mid first and a 2nd or 2 with no bad money...if he gets more i think bad money goes back...do not see good prospect a first plus no bad money..maybe just me?
a player that spent his rookie year in the G league and a late 1st is not a lot
well to be fair if he was on any other lottery team he might have started all yr...so there is that..does not discount for me he was pick 11 in pretty solid draft a yr ago...not a g-league throw-in like you act
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 3:56 pm
by Skybox
AaronB wrote:Simons is a unicorn. He is the worst defender of his generation by a wide margin per EPM.
If the Magic just can’t stay away from a bad deal, offer Houstan for Simons. If Portland says no, then it will be one of the best trades never made.
your slide rule & search engine might be cooking up exciting stats but the OPis a bargain for a legit
elite shooter and scoring threat. He's a bigger, better, younger version of Monk. I get trying to save assets, but this offer doesn't take any significant ones. Why don't you post your Houstan offer -you'll not only get laughed at, it'll begin with "Who is Houstan?"
Simons is not a good defender. He's also on a bad team that has been a bad defensive team for a long time...it's all he's seen going back to Dame & CJ, who raised him in their image. He's capable of much more. If he WAS already known to be a decent defender, this deal, or anything even close, wouldn't be discussed any more than Houstan for Simons would. Fultz was an awful defender until Mose got him. Anthony, M. Wagner, Cole?...none of them provide a fraction of the offense that Simons does and yet their defense hasn't managed to kill the identity that mose is building.
Also consider that AB is already an exceptional defender and he couldn't get on the floor for a team with, literally, NO playable PG's. I think even the Orlando Magic recognize offense is kind of a thing too.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 4:00 pm
by Skybox
orlando_joe wrote:tiderulz wrote:orlando_joe wrote:i do not see magic trading for a guard that is not 2-way..sign fa..no assets maybe...even that i really do not see it
still think if portland moves simons will not get what they think
he may get a mid first and a 2nd or 2 with no bad money...if he gets more i think bad money goes back...do not see good prospect a first plus no bad money..maybe just me?
a player that spent his rookie year in the G league and a late 1st is not a lot
well to be fair if he was on any other lottery team he might have started all yr...so there is that..does not discount for me he was pick 11 in pretty solid draft a yr ago...not a g-league throw-in like you act
He is what he is...and nobody else saw him at #11. I think he'll be good, but you can't presume the world buys in to the "Weltman 4-D Chess Development Plan that noone else gets because he's an evil bball genius" that some of us ORL fans may or may not accept. For now, he is exactly what you said "a G-leaguer" and, based on (surprising) draft spot, arguably, a bust" (I don't think he's that, but why would anyone outside of the ORL FO buy that?)
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:01 pm
by A BETTER DJ
With current management I don't think you'll see the Magic trade for, draft, or sign anybody that doesn't play both ends of the floor. Yes we need shooting, but I'm sure we can find some that is at least passable on D. Simons is a no go for us!
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:10 pm
by Ducklett
I would be fine giving up DEN 25, Cole, and whatever second rounders Portland wants for Simons. If that isn't enough you say thank you for the opportunity to make an offer then go sign some free agents (like Monk) and hope Jett and Black working out with Suggs all summer makes them viable for next season.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:13 pm
by AaronB
Skybox wrote:AaronB wrote:Simons is a unicorn. He is the worst defender of his generation by a wide margin per EPM.
If the Magic just can’t stay away from a bad deal, offer Houstan for Simons. If Portland says no, then it will be one of the best trades never made.
your slide rule & search engine might be cooking up exciting stats but the OPis a bargain for a legit
elite shooter and scoring threat. He's a bigger, better, younger version of Monk. I get trying to save assets, but this offer doesn't take any significant ones. Why don't you post your Houstan offer -you'll not only get laughed at, it'll begin with "Who is Houstan?"
Simons is not a good defender. He's also on a bad team that has been a bad defensive team for a long time...it's all he's seen going back to Dame & CJ, who raised him in their image. He's capable of much more. If he WAS already known to be a decent defender, this deal, or anything even close, wouldn't be discussed any more than Houstan for Simons would. Fultz was an awful defender until Mose got him. Anthony, M. Wagner, Cole?...none of them provide a fraction of the offense that Simons does and yet their defense hasn't managed to kill the identity that mose is building.
Also consider that AB is already an exceptional defender and he couldn't get on the floor for a team with, literally, NO playable PG's. I think even the Orlando Magic recognize offense is kind of a thing too.
I don't care if anyone laughed at me or not. I could not care less what anyone else thinks of my ideas.
But I would never post that trade (Houstan for Simons) because I would not want Simons on the Magic at any price.
I also think Houstan is an over pay considering how much Simons makes.
You do bring up a good point, but the reason why it is a good point is not what you think.
The excuse that is often used around Simons is that he has been on bad defensive teams and has had bad examples to learn from blah blah blah.
These are grown a$$ men who are accountable for their own actions.
That posters think it is OK or in any way defensible to be a generationally bad defender, a unicorn who is nearly twice as bad as his nearest competition of bad defenders per epM, is laughable.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:18 pm
by AaronB
Skybox wrote:orlando_joe wrote:tiderulz wrote:a player that spent his rookie year in the G league and a late 1st is not a lot
well to be fair if he was on any other lottery team he might have started all yr...so there is that..does not discount for me he was pick 11 in pretty solid draft a yr ago...not a g-league throw-in like you act
He is what he is...and nobody else saw him at #11. I think he'll be good, but you can't presume the world buys in to the "Weltman 4-D Chess Development Plan that noone else gets because he's an evil bball genius" that some of us ORL fans may or may not accept. For now, he is exactly what you said "a G-leaguer" and, based on (surprising) draft spot, arguably, a bust" (I don't think he's that, but why would anyone outside of the ORL FO buy that?)
I was extremely disappointed in the Howard pick when Lively actually fell into their lap.
Then I watched him during the summer and fall and was even more disappointed. The guy was slow as molasses.
However, by the end of the season, I saw someone who had NBA movement and started to think Howard might have a pretty good future with a really smooth shot.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:27 pm
by zaymon
Simons is negative value on his contract until he proves he can defend and impact winning. Howard has size and potential and isnt overpaid.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:27 pm
by JRoy
zaymon wrote:Simons is negative value on his contract until he proves he can defend and impact winning. Howard has size and potential and isnt overpaid.
Tough to be overpaid on a rookie contract.
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:35 pm
by zaymon
JRoy wrote:zaymon wrote:Simons is negative value on his contract until he proves he can defend and impact winning. Howard has size and potential and isnt overpaid.
Tough to be overpaid on a rookie contract.
Exactly
Re: Simons to Orl
Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:43 pm
by JRoy
ORL has to count on improvement. It’s almost impossible to score less than 1.6 ppg.