Magic All-In Blockbuster with Hornets and Raptors

[Wolveswin]

Banchero on the move so buckle in…

Hornets Trade:
LaMelo + M. Williams + Bertans + #6 + 27 Mavs/Heat 1sts
FOR
Banchero + Bruce Brown + Poeltl + #18
Why= build one of the NBA’s best young duo in Miller | Banchero, excitement in Charlotte to build around.

Raptors Trade:
Barnes + Brown + Poeltl
FOR
Black + Bertans + M. Wagner + #6 + 25 Nugs 1st (via Magic) + 27 Mavs 1st (via Hornets) + 27 Heat 1st (via Hornets)
Why= big offer for Barnes and to start proper rebuild.

Magic Trade:
Banchero + Black + M. Wagner + #18 + 25 Nugs 1st
FOR
LaMelo + Barnes + Mark Williams
Why= turn Banchero++ into LaMelo and Barnes…but do so keeping all own draft capital for all-in picks package (center spot most likely).

Williams | WCJ
Franz | Isaac
Barnes | Franz | Houstan
Suggs | Barnes | Jett
Ball | Anthony | Suggs

[Texas Chuck]

I have this as brutally terrible for the Magic. I don't think they trade Banchero for Barnes much less add in Black and picks to take a gamble on Ball having given up their only potential offensive anchor. A deal for just Ball keeping Banchero makes way more sense. They just had a really good season. No reason at all for all this change and risk. You think they had offensive issues before?

And the Raptors provide what value Orlando gets, but then they don't get Banchero? They instead get some future picks none of which look great at the moment?

I don't get this one at all except for the Hornets who get Banchero for dirt cheap.

[Colbinii]

This is really weird.

RE Charlotte: I actually really like this for them. Banchero is the type of talent you want to build around, has significantly less questions marks compared to LaMelo and also get two solid rotation pieces in Brown and Poeltl.

RE Toronto: I don't think anything they get back here has close to the same ceiling as Barnes.

RE Orlando: They aren't trading their potential #1 Option for two Non-Potential #1 Options.

[Wolveswin]

I have this as brutally terrible for the Magic. I don't think they trade Banchero for Barnes much less add in Black and picks to take a gamble on Ball. They just had a really good season. No reason at all for all this change and risk. You think they had offensive issues before?

And the Raptors provide what value Orlando gets, but then they don't get Banchero? They instead get some future picks none of which look great at the moment?

I don't get this one at all except for the Hornets who get Banchero for dirt cheap.

I was primed for the TC response.

This is really Banchero + M. Wagner for Ball + M. Williams + #6 + 2x Future 1sts. Do you think Banchero is MORE value than that?

[Texas Chuck]

I think that's a horrible idea for Orlando. And that's not the deal you proposed. Getting your franchise player is the hardest thing to do. We don't know Banchero can be that on a contender but we should have way more confidence in him than Ball.

[tiderulz]

I have this as brutally terrible for the Magic. I don't think they trade Banchero for Barnes much less add in Black and picks to take a gamble on Ball. They just had a really good season. No reason at all for all this change and risk. You think they had offensive issues before?

And the Raptors provide what value Orlando gets, but then they don't get Banchero? They instead get some future picks none of which look great at the moment?

I don't get this one at all except for the Hornets who get Banchero for dirt cheap.

I was primed for the TC response.

This is really Banchero + M. Wagner for Ball + M. Williams + #6 + 2x Future 1sts. Do you think Banchero is MORE value than that?

was Anthony Black removed from the trade? and I dont see how that is "really" the trade. what about the 2 future 1sts that Orlando is also giving up?

[tiderulz]

I think that's a horrible idea for Orlando. And that's not the deal you proposed. Getting your franchise player is the hardest thing to do. We don't know Banchero can be that on a contender but we should have way more confidence in him than Ball.

yep, i watched Paolo go toe to toe with Mitchell in his first playoff experience with an ill-fitting team. I have a bit more confidence in him than Ball, plus he only finished year 2 of his rookie deal.

[Wolveswin]

I have this as brutally terrible for the Magic. I don't think they trade Banchero for Barnes much less add in Black and picks to take a gamble on Ball. They just had a really good season. No reason at all for all this change and risk. You think they had offensive issues before?

And the Raptors provide what value Orlando gets, but then they don't get Banchero? They instead get some future picks none of which look great at the moment?

I don't get this one at all except for the Hornets who get Banchero for dirt cheap.

I was primed for the TC response.

This is really Banchero + M. Wagner for Ball + M. Williams + #6 + 2x Future 1sts. Do you think Banchero is MORE value than that?

was Anthony Black removed from the trade? and I dont see how that is "really" the trade. what about the 2 future 1sts that Orlando is also giving up?

One step at a time.

That is the basis of the trade, then in same trade, Magic forward:
Black + #6 + 2x future 1sts from Hornets + 25 Nugs 1st

To Raptors. Is that not fair for Barnes?

[Wolveswin]

I think that's a horrible idea for Orlando. And that's not the deal you proposed. Getting your franchise player is the hardest thing to do. We don't know Banchero can be that on a contender but we should have way more confidence in him than Ball.

It’s a two step trade in one trade. Try looking past the sig of the OP and breaking it down correctly.

By no means am I saying you need to think trading Banchero is a good idea. But a trade is a sum of all the parts. And I was helping you see it broken down.

[Texas Chuck]

Now, if the OP, and I know he doesn't like to hear this and I refrain from saying it because he gets mad, was willing to think smaller, I do think a deal that sends Ball to Orlando for Black/futures is really interesting for both sides. Charlotte can't bottom out any further so a good time to sell on Ball while you can still get something good. Orlando gets their PG.

I just wouldn't punt Banchero plus stuff for Barnes/Ball. I don't see Orlando ever being good enough offensively.

But Ball to Orlando is a sound idea. Which is one of the reasons I often ask OP's in huge deals, what's the main idea here. Because identifying the main idea can help trim down some of the stuff that doesn't work, but get to what you are hoping to accomplish.

[Texas Chuck]

I think that's a horrible idea for Orlando. And that's not the deal you proposed. Getting your franchise player is the hardest thing to do. We don't know Banchero can be that on a contender but we should have way more confidence in him than Ball.

It’s a two step trade in one trade. Try looking past the sig of the OP and breaking it down correctly.

By no means am I saying you need to think trading Banchero is a good idea. But a trade is a sum of all the parts. And I was helping you see it broken down.

Don't insult me who has tried to give you feedback to you deal by saying I don't understand your trade. I understand it quite well thank you. I just disagree with your idea.

[Wolveswin]

I think that's a horrible idea for Orlando. [streamable]And that's not the deal you proposed[/streamable]. Getting your franchise player is the hardest thing to do. We don't know Banchero can be that on a contender but we should have way more confidence in him than Ball.

It’s a two step trade in one trade. Try looking past the sig of the OP and breaking it down correctly.

By no means am I saying you need to think trading Banchero is a good idea. But a trade is a sum of all the parts. And I was helping you see it broken down.

Don't insult me who has tried to give you feedback to you deal by saying I don't understand your trade. I understand it quite well thank you. I just disagree with your idea.

Insult you. lol. Wow you go from zero to weird to quick. Insult is amazingly strong accusation for no reason. See large print. Because as I broke down for you (trying to walk through the parts of the trade) you disagree with a fundamental fact - which is incorrect.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm done here. This is you with every poster every time you propose a deal and you have some personal thing with me even though I've conceded the issue that made you mad a dozen times or more.

I don't have to like all your ideas. Some of them have real issues, including this one. But you are never open to hearing it. So I'll let others tell you(not that you will listen to them either) the same things.

Good luck mate. I really try and help you. It's just sometimes help comes with criticism of your idea.

[Wolveswin]

Now, if the OP, and I know he doesn't like to hear this and I refrain from saying it because he gets mad, was willing to think smaller, I do think a deal that sends Ball to Orlando for Black/futures is really interesting for both sides. Charlotte can't bottom out any further so a good time to sell on Ball while you can still get something good. Orlando gets their PG.

I just wouldn't punt Banchero plus stuff for Barnes/Ball. I don't see Orlando ever being good enough offensively.

But Ball to Orlando is a sound idea. Which is one of the reasons I often ask OP's in huge deals, what's the main idea here. Because identifying the main idea can help trim down some of the stuff that doesn't work, but get to what you are hoping to accomplish.

And why would Hornets entertain Black plus meh picks from Magic for Ball? This is the traditional one sided trade. Hornets aren’t rebuilding (maybe should but not direction organization wants).

Of course bamboozling Hornets into Black+ picks package is easier trade to swallow for Magic - just not reality for anyone not named Orlando Magic.

[Wolveswin]

I'm done here. This is you with every poster every time you propose a deal and you have some personal thing with me even though I've conceded the issue that made you mad a dozen times or more.

I don't have to like all your ideas. Some of them have real issues, including this one. But you are never open to hearing it. So I'll let others tell you(not that you will listen to them either) the same things.

Good luck mate. I really try and help you. It's just sometimes help comes with criticism of your idea.

You sure love a soap box.

Find where I said you saying trading Banchero as a bad idea was wrong. Or something I disagreed with? I don’t anywhere is this thread.

I do however try to discuss that parts of the trade with you reasonably - but you accelerate to “insulting” and criticizing me. Like instantly. Thank you for jumping out of this thread.

[Wolveswin]

If TC is done from his soap box…let’s break down the trade.

Lets say Hornets call Magic:
Ball + M. Williams + #6 + 2x Future 1sts is the offer for Banchero + M. Wagner + #18.

Magic SHOULD say NO. Value to me seems fine but just not the direction Magic should go. Magic counter with Black+ picks package and Hornets say no of course.

Hornets call back Magic and say how about Barnes + Ball…but Raps need Black + Nugs 1st too.

Do Magic want to turn Banchero+ into Ball + Barnes?

[wemby]

Why would the Magic move Banchero? If anything he's the one piece they should keep. This proposal moves around pieces that weren't necessary and creates more problems than it solves. Horrendous.

[wemby]

Do Magic want to turn Banchero+ into Ball + Barnes?

No. Hell no. F*ck no. JUST NO.

[Wolveswin]

Do Magic want to turn Banchero+ into Ball + Barnes?

No. Hell no. F*ck no. JUST NO.

Directional? Or value wise? I can’t tell from your eloquence

[Snakebites]

No “win now trade” with the Magic involves getting rid of Banchero.

He’s not getting moved, and yeah I agree this is a bad idea for them.