Philly, Detroit, New Orleans

[louc1970]

Making some assumptions here based on many other conversations, threads, media reads.

Philly sends Harris (S&T for $20M)
Philly receives Stewart, Grimes, #53
Philly does a sign and trade with Detroit which brings back a backup for Embiid but also a player who could possibly play some PF with 38% 3-point shooting. Philly gets back the SRP they forfeited. (Of course with #53, they select Bronny James and trade it and Reed to LA for Hachimura).

Detroit sends Stewart, Grimes, #53
Detroit receives Harris
Detroit gets a scorer to play along with Cunningham. Take some of the pressure off. He also fills a position of need. At 31, he does not command the max payout or anywhere near it. Detroit has the money to go up if needed (could include Fournier who would be cut by Philly, Ivey or Grimes to thin out the backcourt).

Philly gets a quick remake, still has large amounts of money to sign - possibly PG.
Detroit thins out the guard spot.

[psman2]

Why is Det sending any value to sign the UFA Harris?

[7r5ur]

Tobias is unrestricted and Detroit has zero incentive to donate Philly assets at all. If Philly wanted to get something for Tobias they should have pulled the trigger at the deadline or last offseason. That ship has sailed.

[louc1970]

Why is Det sending any value to sign the UFA Harris?

Good question.

Ideally to reduce the payroll of taking Harris on directly.
Their cap numbers get to stay pretty even so they can go out and see if they can get other players on the free agent market. Signing Harris alone reduces their cap to around low $30/upper 20s. Trading a comparable contract keeps it near $50m.

If Harris wants more, it eats the cap and the only way to recoup is cut Fournier which I expect they will regardless. So moving Stewart/Grimes (redundant players), Detroit has nearly $70M to spread on FAs.

At 5, Detroit may be able to get Clingan who they will want to play, so having Duren/Stewart is not ideal. Or they could possibly take Reed which again makes the play of Grimes/Ivey congested.

Getting 2 good players is more ideal than 1 really good one. Depending on the direction Detroit want to spend:
Bigs: Claxton, Hartenstein,
Forwards: Miles Bridges, Achiuwa, DJones Jr, PatWilliams,
Guards: Monk

Detroit recreates a team that could compete.
Cunningham, Monk ($25M), Bridges ($25M), Harris, Duren. Still have Ivey, Thompson, #3.
Still could have $20M to go after others.

[7r5ur]

Why is Det sending any value to sign the UFA Harris?

Good question.

Ideally to reduce the payroll of taking Harris on directly.
Their cap numbers get to stay pretty even so they can go out and see if they can get other players on the free agent market. Signing Harris alone reduces their cap to around low $30/upper 20s. Trading a comparable contract keeps it near $50m.

If Harris wants more, it eats the cap and the only way to recoup is cut Fournier which I expect they will regardless. So moving Stewart/Grimes (redundant players), Detroit has nearly $70M to spread on FAs.

At 5, Detroit may be able to get Clingan who they will want to play, so having Duren/Stewart is not ideal. Or they could possibly take Reed which again makes the play of Grimes/Ivey congested.

Getting 2 good players is more ideal than 1 really good one. Depending on the direction Detroit want to spend:
Bigs: Claxton, Hartenstein,
Forwards: Miles Bridges, Achiuwa, DJones Jr, PatWilliams,
Guards: Monk

Detroit recreates a team that could compete.
Cunningham, Monk ($25M), Bridges ($25M), Harris, Duren. Still have Ivey, Thompson, #3.
Still could have $20M to go after others.

Stewart and Grimes aren't "redundant players". If the Pistons didn't have them on the team they'd be looking for guys like them in free agency (3&D players). The Pistons desperately need MORE 3&D guys, not to salary dump the only ones they have lol

Even in a world where they wanted to dump Stewart and Grimes to free cap, you could actually get value back from other teams (like OKC who wanted Stew and has cap/picks) instead of attaching a 2nd rounder for some reason and getting ZERO value back that they couldn't just sign outright. Makes no sense at all.

If Philly wants Stewart and Grimes they should make an offer that doesn't involve Tobias, because adding him adds exactly zero value given Detroit's ability to just sign him outright. If the offer is "we'll take them for free", then well... no.

[Colbinii]

So...Detroit could just sign Harris without giving up positive assets, yet here they give up 2 positive assets?

This deal just makes 0 sense for Detroit on any level, and any rationale used to justify it is completely and utterly absurd.

[psman2]

Why is Det sending any value to sign the UFA Harris?

Good question.

Ideally to reduce the payroll of taking Harris on directly.
Their cap numbers get to stay pretty even so they can go out and see if they can get other players on the free agent market. Signing Harris alone reduces their cap to around low $30/upper 20s. Trading a comparable contract keeps it near $50m.

If Harris wants more, it eats the cap and the only way to recoup is cut Fournier which I expect they will regardless. So moving Stewart/Grimes (redundant players), Detroit has nearly $70M to spread on FAs.

At 5, Detroit may be able to get Clingan who they will want to play, so having Duren/Stewart is not ideal. Or they could possibly take Reed which again makes the play of Grimes/Ivey congested.

Getting 2 good players is more ideal than 1 really good one. Depending on the direction Detroit want to spend:
Bigs: Claxton, Hartenstein,
Forwards: Miles Bridges, Achiuwa, DJones Jr, PatWilliams,
Guards: Monk

Detroit recreates a team that could compete.
Cunningham, Monk ($25M), Bridges ($25M), Harris, Duren. Still have Ivey, Thompson, #3.
Still could have $20M to go after others.

OK on the premise that Det for some reason wants to open up max capspace while signing Harris.... there will be several teams willing to absorb both Grimes and Stewart into capspace and send at least some kind of asset at the same time. That will be in their back pocket if a FA wants to sign there and they need more cap space. No reason to preemptively dump them for no value just in case they might need the space to sign someone.

[theBigLip]

Philly trade, ignoring the rest of reality in the world.

After Tobias’s poor showing down the stretch, he might not be worth $20M, and certainly wouldn’t give him more than 2 years.

[LaSheed]

I mean I get the idea of the trade if there was say a max player type of SG, SF that was coming our way in Free Agency and we needed additional cap to sign Tobias.

That's far from the case though.

[louc1970]

Why is Det sending any value to sign the UFA Harris?

Good question.

Ideally to reduce the payroll of taking Harris on directly.
Their cap numbers get to stay pretty even so they can go out and see if they can get other players on the free agent market. Signing Harris alone reduces their cap to around low $30/upper 20s. Trading a comparable contract keeps it near $50m.

If Harris wants more, it eats the cap and the only way to recoup is cut Fournier which I expect they will regardless. So moving Stewart/Grimes (redundant players), Detroit has nearly $70M to spread on FAs.

At 5, Detroit may be able to get Clingan who they will want to play, so having Duren/Stewart is not ideal. Or they could possibly take Reed which again makes the play of Grimes/Ivey congested.

Getting 2 good players is more ideal than 1 really good one. Depending on the direction Detroit want to spend:
Bigs: Claxton, Hartenstein,
Forwards: Miles Bridges, Achiuwa, DJones Jr, PatWilliams,
Guards: Monk

Detroit recreates a team that could compete.
Cunningham, Monk ($25M), Bridges ($25M), Harris, Duren. Still have Ivey, Thompson, #3.
Still could have $20M to go after others.

Stewart and Grimes aren't "redundant players". If the Pistons didn't have them on the team they'd be looking for guys like them in free agency (3&D players). The Pistons desperately need MORE 3&D guys, not to salary dump the only ones they have lol

Even in a world where they wanted to dump Stewart and Grimes to free cap, you could actually get value back from other teams (like OKC who wanted Stew and has cap/picks) instead of attaching a 2nd rounder for some reason and getting ZERO value back that they couldn't just sign outright. Makes no sense at all.

If Philly wants Stewart and Grimes they should make an offer that doesn't involve Tobias, because adding him adds exactly zero value given Detroit's ability to just sign him outright. If the offer is "we'll take them for free", then well... no.

Grimes and Ivey?
Duren and Stewart?
Then depending on who Detroit picks, Reed/Clingan, makes the position more crowded.

[louc1970]

Philly trade, ignoring the rest of reality in the world.

After Tobias’s poor showing down the stretch, he might not be worth $20M, and certainly wouldn’t give him more than 2 years.

Which players giving 17/6.5 not on rookie scales are under $20m?

[theBigLip]

Philly trade, ignoring the rest of reality in the world.

After Tobias’s poor showing down the stretch, he might not be worth $20M, and certainly wouldn’t give him more than 2 years.

Which players giving 17/6.5 not on rookie scales are under $20m?

I’m thinking he’s peaked. So you’re getting less next year, and the following year again. Just my opinion.

[Kalamazoo317]

We have the most cap room in the league and arguably the least talent. If we want to add Tobias, we'll just pay him what it takes, we won't trade away assets to do it.

[donato]

Where's the New Orleans part in this?

[Kalamazoo317]

Where's the New Orleans part in this?

That's where Langdon's going to go back to hide afterwards if he made a move like this.

[Mr Peanut]

Is this a joke? Detroit gives up three assets for a player they can easily sign outright because Philly (and seemingly no other team) wants him. My word...

[zeebneeb]

Second (maybe third?) Time I've seen Detroit giving up assets for a player they can sign outright, and have 60+million in cap space.

Someone please make this make sense, and pretend I don't have a closed head injury.

[the_process]

Making some assumptions here based on many other conversations, threads, media reads.

Philly sends Harris (S&T for $20M)
Philly receives Stewart, Grimes, #53
Philly does a sign and trade with Detroit which brings back a backup for Embiid but also a player who could possibly play some PF with 38% 3-point shooting. Philly gets back the SRP they forfeited. (Of course with #53, they select Bronny James and trade it and Reed to LA for Hachimura).

Detroit sends Stewart, Grimes, #53
Detroit receives Harris
Detroit gets a scorer to play along with Cunningham. Take some of the pressure off. He also fills a position of need. At 31, he does not command the max payout or anywhere near it. Detroit has the money to go up if needed (could include Fournier who would be cut by Philly, Ivey or Grimes to thin out the backcourt).

Philly gets a quick remake, still has large amounts of money to sign - possibly PG.
Detroit thins out the guard spot.

Makes no sense for DET to pay anything for a FA they can sign outright.

And as mentioned, if DET has multiple FAs lined up and needs more cap room, they can move off guys and probably even get a little something for them.

[theBigLip]

The one interaction that I’d like to have Detroit do w Philly is to steal Oubre. He seems to be solid, not spectacular. He was playing on the minimum so it wouldn’t take much to get him.

[louc1970]

Where's the New Orleans part in this?

I had them in initially but took their portion out. Forgot to change the title.