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Cavs: Allen, Lavert, and Bates

Atlanta: Okongwu, Bogdonavic/Hunter (ATL Choice), and Johnson

Cavs: Get Johnson who has upside to be a dynamic SF next to Mitchell.

Atlanta: Cut a year off Bogdanovic, get a young up and comer to offset the Johnson loss while getting an upgrade at center.

Johnson is probably the last playre that hawks will trade, and it definitely wouldn't be for Allen.

I don't think the difference between Allen and Okongwu is enough to make up the difference between Bogi/Levert and Johnson/Bates.

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What kind of an extension do we think Johnson will be looking for?

I don't have Bogdan as a bad contract Atlanta wants to dump.

I have Bogdan as a good player on a fair deal.

If the Hawks are looking to dump someone, it's Hunter. They also have the No. 1 pick which they'll likely use on Sarr (unless the rumored trade with the Pels has legs). I'd let them keep Okongwu and take Capela as a backup.

Johnson is a solid target, but he only has one year left on his rookie deal and his defense is pretty bad. This would likely result in a step-back this season. If he's not gettable, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

jbk1234 wrote:If the Hawks are looking to dump someone, it's Hunter. They also have the No. 1 pick which they'll likely use on Sarr (unless the rumored trade with the Pels has legs). I'd let them keep Okongwu and take Capela as a backup.

Johnson is a solid target, but he only has one year left on his rookie deal and his defense is pretty bad. This would likely result in a step-back this season. If he's not gettable, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Based on what? I have him a positive defender even though hawks are a bad defensive team.

Ball4life32 wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:If the Hawks are looking to dump someone, it's Hunter. They also have the No. 1 pick which they'll likely use on Sarr (unless the rumored trade with the Pels has legs). I'd let them keep Okongwu and take Capela as a backup.

Johnson is a solid target, but he only has one year left on his rookie deal and his defense is pretty bad. This would likely result in a step-back this season. If he's not gettable, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Based on what? I have him a positive defender even though hawks are a bad defensive team.

His opponent's FG% inside the arc was 55%. He's solid at contesting from the 3 point line, but he's not much help inside of it for a guy who is 6'9". This lines up with his blocks per game and the eye test. Advanced stats don't love him on that end either.

I'll turn the question around: Upon what basis do you conclude he's a positive defender?

jbk1234 wrote:

Ball4life32 wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:If the Hawks are looking to dump someone, it's Hunter. They also have the No. 1 pick which they'll likely use on Sarr (unless the rumored trade with the Pels has legs). I'd let them keep Okongwu and take Capela as a backup.

Johnson is a solid target, but he only has one year left on his rookie deal and his defense is pretty bad. This would likely result in a step-back this season. If he's not gettable, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

Based on what? I have him a positive defender even though hawks are a bad defensive team.

His opponent's FG% inside the arc was 55%. He's solid at contesting from the 3 point line, but he's not much help inside of it for a guy who is 6'9". This lines up with his blocks per game and the eye test. Advanced stats don't love him on that end either.

I'll turn the question around: Upon what basis do you conclude he's a positive defender?

He is positive in DBPM / DEPM with 2 blocks/steals per game and he had a +3.6 Defensive On/Off. Hawks had poor perimeter defense in front of him as well.

Can’t see Atlanta considering this. Don’t see what Cleveland can add to fix it.

Ball4life32 wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

Ball4life32 wrote:Based on what? I have him a positive defender even though hawks are a bad defensive team.

His opponent's FG% inside the arc was 55%. He's solid at contesting from the 3 point line, but he's not much help inside of it for a guy who is 6'9". This lines up with his blocks per game and the eye test. Advanced stats don't love him on that end either.

I'll turn the question around: Upon what basis do you conclude he's a positive defender?

He is positive in DBPM / DEPM with 2 blocks/steals per game and he had a +3.6 Defensive On/Off. Hawks had poor perimeter defense in front of him as well affecting some of those stats.

Are you adding steals together with blocks to get to 2? He certainly doesn't average 2 steals and 2 blocks. He doesn't even average 1 block per game.

Also, his on/off looks great because of who the alternatives on that team are, but his *on* numbers are still shaky. It's why his adjusted DPM doesn't look as good as his DPM.

jbk1234 wrote:

Ball4life32 wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
His opponent's FG% inside the arc was 55%. He's solid at contesting from the 3 point line, but he's not much help inside of it for a guy who is 6'9". This lines up with his blocks per game and the eye test. Advanced stats don't love him on that end either.

I'll turn the question around: Upon what basis do you conclude he's a positive defender?

He is positive in DBPM / DEPM with 2 blocks/steals per game and he had a +3.6 Defensive On/Off. Hawks had poor perimeter defense in front of him as well affecting some of those stats.

Are you adding steals together with blocks to get to 2? He certainly doesn't average 2 steals and 2 blocks. He doesn't even average 1 block per game.

Also, his on/off looks great because of who the alternatives on that team are, but his *on* numbers are still shaky. It's why his adjusted DPM doesn't look as good as his DPM.

Yes I am adding them together and of course they don't look good when he's on a bad defensive team. But gonna have to agree to disagree... you are the first person I've seen though claim Johnson is really bad on defense. I don't think people would be as high on him if that were true.

Ball4life32 wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

Ball4life32 wrote:He is positive in DBPM / DEPM with 2 blocks/steals per game and he had a +3.6 Defensive On/Off. Hawks had poor perimeter defense in front of him as well affecting some of those stats.

Are you adding steals together with blocks to get to 2? He certainly doesn't average 2 steals and 2 blocks. He doesn't even average 1 block per game.

Also, his on/off looks great because of who the alternatives on that team are, but his *on* numbers are still shaky. It's why his adjusted DPM doesn't look as good as his DPM.

Yes I am adding them together and of course they don't look good when he's on a bad defensive team. But gonna have to agree to disagree... you are the first person I've seen though claim Johnson is really bad on defense. I don't think people would be as high on him if that were true.

I didn't write really bad, I wrote pretty bad, and it was. Now, he's 22, and he can get better, but he's getting paid after next season, and if he remains a 6'9" player who doesn't really alter shots within the arc, that gets tricky.

jbk1234 wrote:

Ball4life32 wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
Are you adding steals together with blocks to get to 2? He certainly doesn't average 2 steals and 2 blocks. He doesn't even average 1 block per game.

Also, his on/off looks great because of who the alternatives on that team are, but his *on* numbers are still shaky. It's why his adjusted DPM doesn't look as good as his DPM.

Yes I am adding them together and of course they don't look good when he's on a bad defensive team. But gonna have to agree to disagree... you are the first person I've seen though claim Johnson is really bad on defense. I don't think people would be as high on him if that were true.

I didn't write really bad, I wrote pretty bad, and it was. Now, he's 22, and he can get better, but he's getting paid after next season, and if he remains a 6'9" player who doesn't really alter shots within the arc, that gets tricky.

Like I said we'll have to agree to disagree because I still got him a positive defender on really bad defensive team....he can guard multiple positions as well. Also he allowed 36.6% opponent's FG% 5-9 feet and his % inside 5 feet is close to what Embiid had.

Easy yes for Cleveland.

If Atlanta prefers to dump Hunter instead of Bogdonavic I'd be fine with that switch personally. If they see more value in Bogdanovic and Hunter than Lavert then those two parts can be eliminated from the trade. I did not know anyone thought Bogdonavic was better or more valuable than Lavert.

bgrep14 wrote:If Atlanta prefers to dump Hunter instead of Bogdonavic I'd be fine with that switch personally. If they see more value in Bogdanovic and Hunter than Lavert then those two parts can be eliminated from the trade. I did not know anyone thought Bogdonavic was better or more valuable than Lavert.

The issue is that the difference between Okongwu and Allen is not enough to make up the large gap between JJ and Bates. As it stands Atlanta is giving up the 1st and 3rd most valuable pieces and getting back 2nd and 4th.

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dms269 wrote:

bgrep14 wrote:If Atlanta prefers to dump Hunter instead of Bogdonavic I'd be fine with that switch personally. If they see more value in Bogdanovic and Hunter than Lavert then those two parts can be eliminated from the trade. I did not know anyone thought Bogdonavic was better or more valuable than Lavert.

The issue is that the difference between Okongwu and Allen is not enough to make up the large gap between JJ and Bates. As it stands Atlanta is giving up the 1st and 3rd most valuable pieces and getting back 2nd and 4th.

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That is why I added Lavert for Bogdanovic or Hunter but if eating their years and providing a better player isn't valuable to Atlanta and they'd rather keep those guys then the difference could be to large. Hunters owed 70 million the next three years, getting an expiring of any sort for him should make up the difference.

I got JJ>Allen on trade value so given that I think this whole trade needs to be reworked if the goal is to land JJ in Cleveland.