Brooklyn / Indiana

[Colbinii]

Indiana Out: Obi Toppin (S+T 3/36), Bennedict Mathurin, Isaiah Jackson, Unprotected 2028 1st, *Swap Rights of 2029 1st

Brooklyn Out: Mikal Bridges

*Brooklyn can swap either their Own, Dallas or Phoenix 2029 1st with Indiana's 2029 1st

Indiana adds the perfect compliment and #3 option in Mikal Bridges to a core of Haliburton/Nesmith/Siakam/Turner/Nembhard/Walker at the cost of 2 "unprotected" 1sts and Mathurin.

Brooklyn continues to pile future, high-variance assets and a blue-chip guard prospect in Mathurin.

[Texas Chuck]

Why is Toppin signing with Brooklyn? I'm also not sold I want him if I'm Brooklyn, though it simply a matter of Indy sending some 2nds to whomever signs him to get them to play along with a S&T for matching.

[Colbinii]

Why is Toppin signing with Brooklyn? I'm also not sold I want him if I'm Brooklyn, though it simply a matter of Indy sending some 2nds to whomever signs him to get them to play along with a S&T for matching.

Yeah, it's matching. Indiana has a weird cap sheet with nobody really to match aside from McConnell, but I think Indiana values him and Brooklyn wouldn't.

Here is what Indiana has at quick glance:

Mathurin at 7.2 Million
Walker at 6.4 Million
Smith at 5.4 Million [Player Option, I assume he declines?]
Isaiah Jackson at 4.4 Million
Sheppard at 2.3 Million

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Not enough in my opinion. But I don’t value Mathurin or Jackson highly and don’t have interest in acquiring either.

I certainly wouldn’t call Mathurin a blue chip. He’d be a backup for Cam Thomas right now, just like he’ll be a backup for Nembhard next season.

Replace Mathurin & Jackson with Walker, then we can talk.

[Colbinii]

Not enough in my opinion. But I don’t value Mathurin or Jackson highly and don’t have interest in acquiring either.

I certainly wouldn’t call Mathurin a blue chip. He’d be a backup for Cam Thomas right now, just like he’ll be a backup for Nembhard next season.

Replace Mathurin & Jackson with Walker, then we can talk.

Sure, I don't see any difference in the tier of prospect between Mathurin and Walker.

[MessiahUjiri]

Not enough in my opinion. But I don’t value Mathurin or Jackson highly and don’t have interest in acquiring either.

I certainly wouldn’t call Mathurin a blue chip. He’d be a backup for Cam Thomas right now, just like he’ll be a backup for Nembhard next season.

Replace Mathurin & Jackson with Walker, then we can talk.

Sure, I don't see any difference in the tier of prospect between Mathurin and Walker.

I agree. Indiana has to send both Mathurin and JWalker, for this to be interesting. The rest of the package is just filler, doesn’t matter.

Mathurin and Walker are interesting but unproven prospects, neither of whom projects to be a franchise player.

Mikal in Indy is probably a top 3 seed. They would have to pull the trigger on that.

[Texas Chuck]

[
Yeah, it's matching. Indiana has a weird cap sheet with nobody really to match aside from McConnell, but I think Indiana values him and Brooklyn wouldn't.

No I get why Indy needs to use him. I'm asking why is Toppin, a free agent, agreeing to this? Is this the biggest offer? Is there something about a return to NY? Does he want to go to a team with no talent so he can have a big role?

This is just my OCD. Deals with free agents seem like they need reasons why the free agent goes along.

[Colbinii]

[
Yeah, it's matching. Indiana has a weird cap sheet with nobody really to match aside from McConnell, but I think Indiana values him and Brooklyn wouldn't.

No I get why Indy needs to use him. I'm asking why is Toppin, a free agent, agreeing to this? Is this the biggest offer? Is there something about a return to NY? Does he want to go to a team with no talent so he can have a big role?

How do you assess Toppin?

He had a career year in efficiency, but is that because of improved finishing/shooting or because he plays with Haliburton and some shooting luck from 3 [40% 3P, career 33% before this year with no season > 34%].

But, I just picked a number that made the trade work. If you think he is worth more money, maybe a team would pay him the full MLE? Do you think he gets > MLE? Does Brooklyn just do this with Toppin at 15-18 AAV?

I could see a team like Detroit wanting him as a rim-runner and floor spacer.

I think a team like Sacramento would absolutely use their MLE to acquire him, but how does that work in a 3-team deal with the timings and being an RFA? Seems complicated.

[Wizop]

our playoff run was unexpected but as our GM has said, we can't assume our progress will be linear. it's much too soon to give up on the only two top ten picks we've had in years. you can call us again at the deadline though.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Mikal in Indy is probably a top 3 seed. They would have to pull the trigger on that.

I don’t believe the Pacers would remotely consider trading both Mathurin and Walker for Bridges.

[Godaddycurse]

[
Yeah, it's matching. Indiana has a weird cap sheet with nobody really to match aside from McConnell, but I think Indiana values him and Brooklyn wouldn't.

No I get why Indy needs to use him. I'm asking why is Toppin, a free agent, agreeing to this? Is this the biggest offer? Is there something about a return to NY? Does he want to go to a team with no talent so he can have a big role?

This is just my OCD. Deals with free agents seem like they need reasons why the free agent goes along.

Make it McDermott 1 yr guaranteed and everyone is happy, esp McDermott who gets a nice 1yr paycheque

[Scoot McGroot]

Mikal in Indy is probably a top 3 seed. They would have to pull the trigger on that.

I don’t believe the Pacers would remotely consider trading both Mathurin and Walker for Bridges.

I tend to agree. It's maybe the value, but I can't picture Indy actually doing it. Mathurin and some of their remaining draft capital? Sure. Use either an opted in Jalen Smith, or sign and trade him and/or Obi to their determined destination as part of a looped in 3 way to make the salary match, etc.

[Scoot McGroot]

[
Yeah, it's matching. Indiana has a weird cap sheet with nobody really to match aside from McConnell, but I think Indiana values him and Brooklyn wouldn't.

No I get why Indy needs to use him. I'm asking why is Toppin, a free agent, agreeing to this? Is this the biggest offer? Is there something about a return to NY? Does he want to go to a team with no talent so he can have a big role?

This is just my OCD. Deals with free agents seem like they need reasons why the free agent goes along.

Make it McDermott 1 yr guaranteed and everyone is happy, esp McDermott who gets a nice 1yr paycheque

Could. But probably just need to see where Jalen/Obi decide to sign, and throw those teams some cash to loop that in as a sign and trade out into a 3 way with Brooklyn in this type of scenario and make the money work.

[louc1970]

Brooklyn is hopefully not that easy.
Trade needs to include Walker, Nemhard, Smith, with picks (not swaps).

[MessiahUjiri]

Mikal in Indy is probably a top 3 seed. They would have to pull the trigger on that.

I don’t believe the Pacers would remotely consider trading both Mathurin and Walker for Bridges.

I tend to agree. It's maybe the value, but I can't picture Indy actually doing it. Mathurin and some of their remaining draft capital? Sure. Use either an opted in Jalen Smith, or sign and trade him and/or Obi to their determined destination as part of a looped in 3 way to make the salary match, etc.

Why not?

With Mikal, they’re a guaranteed ECF contender. This would be the best Pacers team in over 2 decades.

It makes no sense to max Hali/Siakam and say no to Mikal Bridges for unproven rookies who don’t even project to be superstars.

If chips are on the table, they pull the trigger.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don’t believe the Pacers would remotely consider trading both Mathurin and Walker for Bridges.

I tend to agree. It's maybe the value, but I can't picture Indy actually doing it. Mathurin and some of their remaining draft capital? Sure. Use either an opted in Jalen Smith, or sign and trade him and/or Obi to their determined destination as part of a looped in 3 way to make the salary match, etc.

Why not?

With Mikal, they’re a guaranteed ECF contender. This would be the best Pacers team in over 2 decades.

It makes no sense to max Hali/Siakam and say no to Mikal Bridges for unproven rookies who don’t even project to be superstars.

If chips are on the table, they pull the trigger.

They already made the ECF and dealing two super high potential prospects for Bridges feels like an overpay for a 2 year run at the risk of a potential 5-7 year run. Dealing one or the other plus additional value like picks? Sure. But both is an awful lot.

But I think mostly it depends on individual thoughts on the players involved. Both have flashed immense talent and could become star level players of their own. Shams pointed to Donovan Mitchell and Jimmy Butler as the type of Star that Mathurin could become, just a week ago. Sure, if neither projected to be stars, it’d be super easy to deal them. But it’s not that easy because they could be really talented.

Much like Toronto fans desperately wanted Mathurin for Siakam and Indy refused to include him, there’s clearly a belief that Mathurin could be something. Indy believes Walker could be something special too. So dealing both of them together would be he type of package that, in Indy’s opinion, should be the basis for a true super duper star type package.

[MessiahUjiri]

I tend to agree. It's maybe the value, but I can't picture Indy actually doing it. Mathurin and some of their remaining draft capital? Sure. Use either an opted in Jalen Smith, or sign and trade him and/or Obi to their determined destination as part of a looped in 3 way to make the salary match, etc.

Why not?

With Mikal, they’re a guaranteed ECF contender. This would be the best Pacers team in over 2 decades.

It makes no sense to max Hali/Siakam and say no to Mikal Bridges for unproven rookies who don’t even project to be superstars.

If chips are on the table, they pull the trigger.

They already made the ECF and dealing two super high potential prospects for Bridges feels like an overpay for a 2 year run at the risk of a potential 5-7 year run. Dealing one or the other plus additional value like picks? Sure. But both is an awful lot.

But I think mostly it depends on individual thoughts on the players involved. Both have flashed immense talent and could become star level players of their own. Shams pointed to Donovan Mitchell and Jimmy Butler as the type of Star that Mathurin could become, just a week ago. Sure, if neither projected to be stars, it’d be super easy to deal them. But it’s not that easy because they could be really talented.

Much like Toronto fans desperately wanted Mathurin for Siakam and Indy refused to include him, there’s clearly a belief that Mathurin could be something. Indy believes Walker could be something special too. So dealing both of them together would be he type of package that, in Indy’s opinion, should be the basis for a true super duper star type package.

I hate to say this, but the Bucks only went forward because of injuries (Giannis and Dame missing, the entire NYK front court).

I know us fans want to believe in our prospects, but by the time NYK/Philly etc are done with their offseason moves, it’s highly likely that Indiana feels boxed out of the top of the East.

I guess they could roll the dice on Mathurin and Walker, and also wait for them to develop. Seems like the timelines don’t matchup. Their window is open right now.

[Scoot McGroot]

Why not?

With Mikal, they’re a guaranteed ECF contender. This would be the best Pacers team in over 2 decades.

It makes no sense to max Hali/Siakam and say no to Mikal Bridges for unproven rookies who don’t even project to be superstars.

If chips are on the table, they pull the trigger.

They already made the ECF and dealing two super high potential prospects for Bridges feels like an overpay for a 2 year run at the risk of a potential 5-7 year run. Dealing one or the other plus additional value like picks? Sure. But both is an awful lot.

But I think mostly it depends on individual thoughts on the players involved. Both have flashed immense talent and could become star level players of their own. Shams pointed to Donovan Mitchell and Jimmy Butler as the type of Star that Mathurin could become, just a week ago. Sure, if neither projected to be stars, it’d be super easy to deal them. But it’s not that easy because they could be really talented.

Much like Toronto fans desperately wanted Mathurin for Siakam and Indy refused to include him, there’s clearly a belief that Mathurin could be something. Indy believes Walker could be something special too. So dealing both of them together would be he type of package that, in Indy’s opinion, should be the basis for a true super duper star type package.

I hate to say this, but the Bucks only went forward because of injuries (Giannis and Dame missing, the entire NYK front court).

I know us fans want to believe in our prospects, but by the time NYK/Philly etc are done with their offseason moves, it’s highly likely that Indiana feels boxed out of the top of the East.

I guess they could roll the dice on Mathurin and Walker, and also wait for them to develop. Seems like the timelines don’t matchup. Their window is open right now.

Maybe! But Indy also went 4-1 against a pretty much fully healthy Milwaukee during the regular season. And then Indy added Siakam and Milwaukee added Doc Rivers, so I think they’re pretty confident that it could continue.


But mostly I don’t see Mathurin/Walker for Bridges making Indy feel less boxed out of the top of the East than Mathurin or Walker and picks for Bridges, or even just holding onto Mathurin/Walker. Just throwing them both into a deal because they didn’t help a ton this year (as one was “redshirting” and the other required shoulder surgery). If Bridges doesn’t HIT right away, Indy is dealing him next year before he hits unrestricted free agency, as he’s not paid enough to really extend. It’s a REALLY tight rope to walk there, and dealing both of your “top tier draft prospects” in the last 30 years for a one year shot to see if it works is really tough to do in reality.

[oldncreaky]

They already made the ECF and dealing two super high potential prospects for Bridges feels like an overpay for a 2 year run at the risk of a potential 5-7 year run. Dealing one or the other plus additional value like picks? Sure. But both is an awful lot.

But I think mostly it depends on individual thoughts on the players involved. Both have flashed immense talent and could become star level players of their own. Shams pointed to Donovan Mitchell and Jimmy Butler as the type of Star that Mathurin could become, just a week ago. Sure, if neither projected to be stars, it’d be super easy to deal them. But it’s not that easy because they could be really talented.

Much like Toronto fans desperately wanted Mathurin for Siakam and Indy refused to include him, there’s clearly a belief that Mathurin could be something. Indy believes Walker could be something special too. So dealing both of them together would be he type of package that, in Indy’s opinion, should be the basis for a true super duper star type package.

I hate to say this, but the Bucks only went forward because of injuries (Giannis and Dame missing, the entire NYK front court).

I know us fans want to believe in our prospects, but by the time NYK/Philly etc are done with their offseason moves, it’s highly likely that Indiana feels boxed out of the top of the East.

I guess they could roll the dice on Mathurin and Walker, and also wait for them to develop. Seems like the timelines don’t matchup. Their window is open right now.

Maybe! But Indy also went 4-1 against a pretty much fully healthy Milwaukee during the regular season. And then Indy added Siakam and Milwaukee added Doc Rivers, so I think they’re pretty confident that it could continue.


But mostly I don’t see Mathurin/Walker for Bridges making Indy feel less boxed out of the top of the East than Mathurin or Walker and picks for Bridges, or even just holding onto Mathurin/Walker. Just throwing them both into a deal because they didn’t help a ton this year (as one was “redshirting” and the other required shoulder surgery). If Bridges doesn’t HIT right away, Indy is dealing him next year before he hits unrestricted free agency, as he’s not paid enough to really extend. It’s a REALLY tight rope to walk there, and dealing both of your “top tier draft prospects” in the last 30 years for a one year shot to see if it works is really tough to do in reality.

I agree with this view of Bridges in Indy. He's a really good complementary piece who fits well in theory. But in reality, Indy would have a short runway to figure things out, and in the meantime, it is not clear to me that he would even surpass Turner as the Pacers 3rd best player.

[Scoot McGroot]

I hate to say this, but the Bucks only went forward because of injuries (Giannis and Dame missing, the entire NYK front court).

I know us fans want to believe in our prospects, but by the time NYK/Philly etc are done with their offseason moves, it’s highly likely that Indiana feels boxed out of the top of the East.

I guess they could roll the dice on Mathurin and Walker, and also wait for them to develop. Seems like the timelines don’t matchup. Their window is open right now.

Maybe! But Indy also went 4-1 against a pretty much fully healthy Milwaukee during the regular season. And then Indy added Siakam and Milwaukee added Doc Rivers, so I think they’re pretty confident that it could continue.


But mostly I don’t see Mathurin/Walker for Bridges making Indy feel less boxed out of the top of the East than Mathurin or Walker and picks for Bridges, or even just holding onto Mathurin/Walker. Just throwing them both into a deal because they didn’t help a ton this year (as one was “redshirting” and the other required shoulder surgery). If Bridges doesn’t HIT right away, Indy is dealing him next year before he hits unrestricted free agency, as he’s not paid enough to really extend. It’s a REALLY tight rope to walk there, and dealing both of your “top tier draft prospects” in the last 30 years for a one year shot to see if it works is really tough to do in reality.

I agree with this view of Bridges in Indy. He's a really good complementary piece who fits well in theory. But in reality, Indy would have a short runway to figure things out, and in the meantime, it is not clear to me that he would even surpass Turner as the Pacers 3rd best player.

I think he’d be a GREAT piece. I shudder to add him at the cost of BOTH Mathurin and Walker. That’s all. Mathurin and a pick? Sure. As great as I think Mathurin can be, we have Haliburton, Nembhard, Nesmith, Sheppard, and even McConnell. But at the forwards, we have Siakam and maybe some combo of Nesmith, Sheppard, and Isaiah Jackson playing out of position? Losing Walker as a 3/4 prospect would be a HUGE deal positionally.