RealGM

Utah trade: Collins
SAS trade Johnson, Graham

Why for Utah: let kessler start again and see if Keldon can bounce back
Why for SAS: add a stop gap pf to start next to Wemby and get out of keldons last year

Spurs probably have zero interest in Collins.

What? No. the Spurs certainly don't want to get out of Johnson's contract. The RGM conversation about him is skewing the reality that he's making $18 Million a year for three years in a league where the MLE is $13.5 Million over that same time. Fans on this board may not want him, but he's making less than the average sixth man is.

I like it about as much as a kick in the groin. And no, I'm not a masochist.

This is probably one where both teams pass.

Pretty terrible for San Antonio. Worse contract, older - maybe slightly better - player. Utah takes this and runs, but I wouldn't want to add the incentive to actually balance the deal.

babyjax13 wrote:Pretty terrible for San Antonio. Worse contract, older - maybe slightly better - player. Utah takes this and runs, but I wouldn't want to add the incentive to actually balance the deal.

Collins is clearly the better player in my eyes. The only metric, traditional or advanced, where Johnson has a distinct edge is in assist rate.

And, as overpriced a contract as Collins has, it ends a year sooner. (Johnson is borderline underperforming his.) Unless the Jazz are truly going "big game hunting" this summer — and I'll believe that when I see it — they're probably better off keeping him rather than paying a worse player for more years.

SkyHook wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:Pretty terrible for San Antonio. Worse contract, older - maybe slightly better - player. Utah takes this and runs, but I wouldn't want to add the incentive to actually balance the deal.

Collins is clearly the better player in my eyes. The only metric, traditional or advanced, where Johnson has a distinct edge is in assist rate.

And, as overpriced a contract as Collins has, it ends a year sooner. (Johnson is borderline underperforming his.) Unless the Jazz are truly going "big game hunting" this summer — and I'll believe that when I see it — they're probably better off keeping him rather than paying a worse player for more years.

We'd be paying him $10 million less a year on a declining contract. He's a more valuable archetype, he's a way higher volume shooter, he would be a great 6th man. Neither is great, both occupy a similar spot of 'ideally this guy is your worst starter or best bench player' so I'd rather pay Johnson pretty easily.

babyjax13 wrote:

SkyHook wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:Pretty terrible for San Antonio. Worse contract, older - maybe slightly better - player. Utah takes this and runs, but I wouldn't want to add the incentive to actually balance the deal.

Collins is clearly the better player in my eyes. The only metric, traditional or advanced, where Johnson has a distinct edge is in assist rate.

And, as overpriced a contract as Collins has, it ends a year sooner. (Johnson is borderline underperforming his.) Unless the Jazz are truly going "big game hunting" this summer — and I'll believe that when I see it — they're probably better off keeping him rather than paying a worse player for more years.

We'd be paying him $10 million less a year on a declining contract. He's a more valuable archetype, he's a way higher volume shooter, he would be a great 6th man. Neither is great, both occupy a similar spot of 'ideally this guy is your worst starter or best bench player' so I'd rather pay Johnson pretty easily.

We have a healthy disagreement.

I'd rather just keep Keldon. Spurs aren't looking to just dump him, especially not for Collins. If SA wanted Collins they would have made an offer when he was a FA or when he was being traded for peanuts

I actually don't hate this. I like it more for the Spurs than the Jazz though. As little as I like Collins, he's as good or better than Keldon. And you get to flexibility sooner. Have the better player and extra roster spot for this year. Trade Collins as an expiring next summer when your roster is more ready to be competitive.

Utah just continues the tank and gives Johnson 20 shots a night to convince a bad team to take his contract for free the next summer. Forces their coach to play Kessler more and see if he's the guy many fans still think is worth a top 10 pick or if he's really just that starts games plays 20-25 minutes gives way to the closer guy and they still need a long-term answer at center.

Smart deal. It's just these are hated players so we default to the guy we already have because we can always see our guys positives and the other guys negatives way easier -- when ironically it should absolutely be the opposite.

Chinook wrote:What? No. the Spurs certainly don't want to get out of Johnson's contract. The RGM conversation about him is skewing the reality that he's making $18 Million a year for three years in a league where the MLE is $13.5 Million over that same time. Fans on this board may not want him, but he's making less than the average sixth man is.

Valid point. But is producing as well as the average 6th man?

The likes about Collins is he rebounds better, can play the center is a small ball lineup or next to Wemby, and he shoot 37% from 3 this year. The cost is $6.5m more a year but that is recouped by sending off Graham.

Perhaps a different option would be Sexton instead of Collins.

louc1970 wrote:

Chinook wrote:What? No. the Spurs certainly don't want to get out of Johnson's contract. The RGM conversation about him is skewing the reality that he's making $18 Million a year for three years in a league where the MLE is $13.5 Million over that same time. Fans on this board may not want him, but he's making less than the average sixth man is.

Valid point. But is producing as well as the average 6th man?

The likes about Collins is he rebounds better, can play the center is a small ball lineup or next to Wemby, and he shoot 37% from 3 this year. The cost is $6.5m more a year but that is recouped by sending off Graham.

Perhaps a different option would be Sexton instead of Collins.

Yes, Johnson is producing fine as a sixth man.