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Deandre Ayton for Corey Kispert, Marvin Bagley III and Richaun Holmes

The Blazers save some money up front and a good chunk long-term while adding some minutes eaters to replace Ayton and a solid wing shooter.

The Wizards don't break the bank, but take a chance on Ayton attributing to their young core as their big man of the future which they currently lack.

Dont see why the wiz would tie up cap space and give up a solid young role player for Ayton. I think they would need compensation here.

Do it Chrone dome.

balsamic_ducks wrote:Dont see why the wiz would tie up cap space and give up a solid young role player for Ayton. I think they would need compensation here.

The evaluations on DA around here are wild. He has two years and $70M. Washington isn’t going to use the cap space on an FA regardless and holding out for salary dumps in the summer of ‘05 is likely to bring you less than an expiring Ayton coming off a decent season. It would be a no brainer for Washington and are we sure Kisper is a solid role player?

Biggest issue for Portland here is roster space. The team has 13 of 15 roster spots under contract I believe, and have 4 picks in the draft. As it is, the team needs to make consolidating moves before the rookies are signed. This trade complicates that further. Portland needs to have a plan in place to unload multiple players before this trade is considered.

jredsaz wrote:

balsamic_ducks wrote:Dont see why the wiz would tie up cap space and give up a solid young role player for Ayton. I think they would need compensation here.

The evaluations on DA around here are wild. He has two years and $70M. Washington isn’t going to use the cap space on an FA regardless and holding out for salary dumps in the summer of ‘05 is likely to bring you less than an expiring Ayton coming off a decent season. It would be a no brainer for Washington and are we sure Kisper is a solid role player?

If they value what Ayton does, they could’ve just kept Gafford who can give you 80% of Ayton for a third of the cost. Also if im rebuilding, im trying to set up a culture so guys with a reputation of being lazy like Ayton should be avoided like the plague. I just don’t value anything Ayton does, I think he’s empty calories being paid a premium price.

Disgusting for the Wizards. No need to take Ayton for no comp.

balsamic_ducks wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

balsamic_ducks wrote:Dont see why the wiz would tie up cap space and give up a solid young role player for Ayton. I think they would need compensation here.

The evaluations on DA around here are wild. He has two years and $70M. Washington isn’t going to use the cap space on an FA regardless and holding out for salary dumps in the summer of ‘05 is likely to bring you less than an expiring Ayton coming off a decent season. It would be a no brainer for Washington and are we sure Kisper is a solid role player?

If they value what Ayton does, they could’ve just kept Gafford who can give you 80% of Ayton for a third of the cost. Also if im rebuilding, im trying to set up a culture so guys with a reputation of being lazy like Ayton should be avoided like the plague. I just don’t value anything Ayton does, I think he’s empty calories being paid a premium price.

They got off of Gafford for what they valued as better assets. They would do the same for Ayton. Trading Gafford had nothing to do with valuing his type of game.

This assumes the Wizards don't pick Sarr or Clingan with the second pick

Ayton is criminally underrated on here. He was a 25 and 13 guy last 20 games and he messed up the tank. He's not a salary dump, he's the key piece of the dame trade. I'm not trading him for contract relief garbage. Let him average 21 and 12 next season and then move him for picks.

Let's just add CHI to the mix and see if everybody gets something

CHI out: Vucevic, the infamous protected PORT pick
CHI in: Ayton

PORT out: Ayton
PORT in: the rights to their pick back Kispert, Bagley, Holmes

WASH out: Kispert, Bagley, Holmes
WASH in: Vucevic, a pick from PORT

maybe more tinkering

WASH if they pick Sarr or Clingan gets a solid veteran center to relieve pressure and mentor their pick for 2 years, Vuc probably doesn't win that many games to mess up the tank, maybe another pic or 2nds

PORT regains the ability to include future picks in trades, cut Ayton's large contract into 3 smaller ones, can still make more deals one less pick this year still have the ability to trade picks and players

CHI gets a younger, more agile center by taking the biggest contract maybe they start making DeRozan and Lavine moves so Ayton moves up to the 2 or 3 option which increases his motivation

Unless the pick Portland is sending to the Wiz is a good one, the Chicago version is even worse. Ayton might improve his value, Vucevic is not a long term value piece. And yes, Kispert, a 20 Usage/60%+ts% guy with good size (and bad defense) is a solid roleplayer. Nothing more but everyone needs 3 point specialists.

NYG wrote:Deandre Ayton for Corey Kispert, Marvin Bagley III and Richaun Holmes

The Blazers save some money up front and a good chunk long-term while adding some minutes eaters to replace Ayton and a solid wing shooter.

The Wizards don't break the bank, but take a chance on Ayton attributing to their young core as their big man of the future which they currently lack.

Ayton doesn't suck, but that $35M a year contract is a lot to swallow for a guy who hasn't proven to be any better than any number of available serviceable starting bigs like Gafford, Robinson, Capela, etc. These guys usually cost $15M or so. Ayton hasn't done enough to justify being paid double what these guys cost.

I could see the Wizards taking a flyer on Ayton if they didn't have to give up any real assets, but they won't include Kispert. So, Ayton for any combination of: Holmes, Bagley, Shamet, Davis. But only if the Wizards don't end up drafting Sarr.

ChettheJet wrote:Let's just add CHI to the mix and see if everybody gets something

CHI out: Vucevic, the infamous protected PORT pick
CHI in: Ayton

PORT out: Ayton
PORT in: the rights to their pick back Kispert, Bagley, Holmes

WASH out: Kispert, Bagley, Holmes
WASH in: Vucevic, a pick from PORT

maybe more tinkering

WASH if they pick Sarr or Clingan gets a solid veteran center to relieve pressure and mentor their pick for 2 years, Vuc probably doesn't win that many games to mess up the tank, maybe another pic or 2nds

PORT regains the ability to include future picks in trades, cut Ayton's large contract into 3 smaller ones, can still make more deals one less pick this year still have the ability to trade picks and players

CHI gets a younger, more agile center by taking the biggest contract maybe they start making DeRozan and Lavine moves so Ayton moves up to the 2 or 3 option which increases his motivation

POR isn’t paying to move Ayton, will just keep him if this is his value.

I dont like Ayton much but I would keep him around over this.

Ayton has a skill set that translates to some impressive stats when given opportunity. But that skill set is one that you need to be way better than he is at it for that to ever be worth that much opportunity on a real competitive team. We saw that with him in Phoenix. He's not good enough to be a focal point on a non tanking team and he's not good enough in (or interested in) the "role player" type things.

POR has to move some salary to duck the tax. No way you can justify that for this team. But they're fans don't want to dump Thybulle - they value him for "defensive culture". Most don't want to dilute any asset return for Grant/Brogdon/Simons by prioritizing salary relief in the deals. They don't want to sell low on Rob Williams. Something has to give if they're going to duck the tax but not prioritize saving money in any deal.

If they move Ayton in a deal like this, they shed some salary on the face of it. And they break it down into easier to move players to shed salary. Kispert is a "meh" young player to add to the mix. They have to weigh this against other moves. It's inevitable they're going to dump salary somehow, just a matter of what move/combo of moves makes the most sense. Inevitably, it's going to cost them "value" sacrificed in some move.

For WAS, sure, why not? Kispert is "meh" and they can feature Ayton enough to try tricking someone into adding him. Particularly next year when he's an expiring. It's not a bad risk to take. They have the money and the opportunity for him (provided they don't take a C at #2 of course).

I don’t care if POR pays tax. It’s not my money.

Sending out some of those players is a good idea for reasons beyond their cost.

JRoy wrote:

ChettheJet wrote:Let's just add CHI to the mix and see if everybody gets something

CHI out: Vucevic, the infamous protected PORT pick
CHI in: Ayton

PORT out: Ayton
PORT in: the rights to their pick back Kispert, Bagley, Holmes

WASH out: Kispert, Bagley, Holmes
WASH in: Vucevic, a pick from PORT

maybe more tinkering

WASH if they pick Sarr or Clingan gets a solid veteran center to relieve pressure and mentor their pick for 2 years, Vuc probably doesn't win that many games to mess up the tank, maybe another pic or 2nds

PORT regains the ability to include future picks in trades, cut Ayton's large contract into 3 smaller ones, can still make more deals one less pick this year still have the ability to trade picks and players

CHI gets a younger, more agile center by taking the biggest contract maybe they start making DeRozan and Lavine moves so Ayton moves up to the 2 or 3 option which increases his motivation

POR isn’t paying to move Ayton, will just keep him if this is his value.

Totally understandable.

If money isn't an issue, Ayton is better than the other serviceable centers presumably available for minimal cost (guys like Capela, or Mitchell Robinson).

hugepatsfan wrote:Ayton has a skill set that translates to some impressive stats when given opportunity. But that skill set is one that you need to be way better than he is at it for that to ever be worth that much opportunity on a real competitive team. We saw that with him in Phoenix. He's not good enough to be a focal point on a non tanking team and he's not good enough in (or interested in) the "role player" type things.

POR has to move some salary to duck the tax. No way you can justify that for this team. But they're fans don't want to dump Thybulle - they value him for "defensive culture". Most don't want to dilute any asset return for Grant/Brogdon/Simons by prioritizing salary relief in the deals. They don't want to sell low on Rob Williams. Something has to give if they're going to duck the tax but not prioritize saving money in any deal.

If they move Ayton in a deal like this, they shed some salary on the face of it. And they break it down into easier to move players to shed salary. Kispert is a "meh" young player to add to the mix. They have to weigh this against other moves. It's inevitable they're going to dump salary somehow, just a matter of what move/combo of moves makes the most sense. Inevitably, it's going to cost them "value" sacrificed in some move.

For WAS, sure, why not? Kispert is "meh" and they can feature Ayton enough to try tricking someone into adding him. Particularly next year when he's an expiring. It's not a bad risk to take. They have the money and the opportunity for him (provided they don't take a C at #2 of course).

The Wizards wouldn't include Kispert. If the luxtax savings aren't enough motivation for Portland to unload Ayton, then so be it. This trade just won't happen.

Besides, the inclusion of Kispert doesn't make much sense for Portland if Portland is looking to get their team salary under control. Portland wouldn't be keeping Kispert around at MLE+ money anyhow, so he just doesn't provide any long term value. In short, Kispert is more valuable to Washington than he is to Portland, so his inclusion makes the deal less palatable for both sides.

nate33 wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:Ayton has a skill set that translates to some impressive stats when given opportunity. But that skill set is one that you need to be way better than he is at it for that to ever be worth that much opportunity on a real competitive team. We saw that with him in Phoenix. He's not good enough to be a focal point on a non tanking team and he's not good enough in (or interested in) the "role player" type things.

POR has to move some salary to duck the tax. No way you can justify that for this team. But they're fans don't want to dump Thybulle - they value him for "defensive culture". Most don't want to dilute any asset return for Grant/Brogdon/Simons by prioritizing salary relief in the deals. They don't want to sell low on Rob Williams. Something has to give if they're going to duck the tax but not prioritize saving money in any deal.

If they move Ayton in a deal like this, they shed some salary on the face of it. And they break it down into easier to move players to shed salary. Kispert is a "meh" young player to add to the mix. They have to weigh this against other moves. It's inevitable they're going to dump salary somehow, just a matter of what move/combo of moves makes the most sense. Inevitably, it's going to cost them "value" sacrificed in some move.

For WAS, sure, why not? Kispert is "meh" and they can feature Ayton enough to try tricking someone into adding him. Particularly next year when he's an expiring. It's not a bad risk to take. They have the money and the opportunity for him (provided they don't take a C at #2 of course).

The Wizards wouldn't include Kispert. If the luxtax savings aren't enough motivation for Portland to unload Ayton, then so be it. This trade just won't happen.

Besides, the inclusion of Kispert doesn't make much sense for Portland if Portland is looking to get their team salary under control. Portland wouldn't be keeping Kispert around at MLE+ money anyhow, so he just doesn't provide any long term value. In short, Kispert is more valuable to Washington than he is to Portland, so his inclusion makes the deal less palatable for both sides.

POR, as things stand right now, wouldn't have trouble keeping Kispert at the MLE beyond next season. The other two salaries they're taking back in this deal (Holmes, Bagley) would be off the books. Brogdon would be as well.