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Phoenix Out: #22, Nassir Little, TPE [Cameron Payne]
Phoenix In: Davion Mitchell*, Sasha Vezenkov, #29

Sacramento Out: Davion Mitchell, Harrison Barnes, Sasha Vezenkov
Sacramento In: John Collins

Utah Out: John Collins, #29
Utah In: #22, Harrison Barnes, Nassir Little

*Davion Mitchell absorbed into Cameron Payne TPE

Phoenix bolster's their 6-8 rotation. Mitchell is a good fit as a POA defender and 3+D PG next to Booker/Grayson/Beal while Vezenkov gives them more punch than the minimum level player's they have been Carouseling since the acquisition of Durant. This also puts use of the Payne TPE, which is invaluable to them and their cap situation.

Sacramento adds John Collins, an often discussed acquisition. If they can retain Monk, Collins helps them get real size in the front-court and can play some 5-Out Center when Sabonis is on the bench.

Utah moves up into the early 20's, gets a decent Veteran in Barnes to eat some minutes and fits well with the younger-core but eats Little's contract.

Starting this offseason apron teams can’t use TPE’s from previous seasons.

I think Utah could take Sasha here though? Maybe demand a couple seconds or something minor. He will probably agree to a buyout right?

jayjaysee wrote:Starting this offseason apron teams can’t use TPE’s from previous seasons.

Does that include trades at the draft? Or is it just as soon as the NBA Finals end, all trades are considered "next year"?

I think Sacramento could include #45 and send that to Utah.

Colbinii wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Starting this offseason apron teams can’t use TPE’s from previous seasons.

Does that include trades at the draft? Or is it just as soon as the NBA Finals end, all trades are considered "next year"?

I think Sacramento could include #45 and send that to Utah.

From what I read when whoever told me, it’s worded as the end of the 2023-2024 season. Which would stop draft day deals.

But I didnt go searching for the real answer.

jayjaysee wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Starting this offseason apron teams can’t use TPE’s from previous seasons.

Does that include trades at the draft? Or is it just as soon as the NBA Finals end, all trades are considered "next year"?

I think Sacramento could include #45 and send that to Utah.

From what I read when whoever told me, it’s worded as the end of the 2023-2024 season. Which would stop draft day deals.

But I didnt go searching for the real answer.

Yeah Scoot posted that. I usually trust him. Maybe he can chime in.

scoot mcgroot wrote:can you explain to us idiots how this works

Colbinii wrote:Yeah Scoot posted that. I usually trust him. Maybe he can chime in.

scoot mcgroot wrote:can you explain to us idiots how this works

Pretty much. If Scoot posts it, I just believe it’s a snip from the CBA and ask no questions.

Colbinii wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
Does that include trades at the draft? Or is it just as soon as the NBA Finals end, all trades are considered "next year"?

I think Sacramento could include #45 and send that to Utah.

From what I read when whoever told me, it’s worded as the end of the 2023-2024 season. Which would stop draft day deals.

But I didnt go searching for the real answer.

Yeah Scoot posted that. I usually trust him. Maybe he can chime in.

scoot mcgroot wrote:can you explain to us idiots how this works

From the nba CBA agreement:

ii. Pre-Existing TPEs. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE generated in a prior year. (For purposes of this rule, a “year” is measured from end of Regular Season to end of Regular Season.)

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:
From what I read when whoever told me, it’s worded as the end of the 2023-2024 season. Which would stop draft day deals.

But I didnt go searching for the real answer.

Yeah Scoot posted that. I usually trust him. Maybe he can chime in.

scoot mcgroot wrote:can you explain to us idiots how this works

From the nba CBA agreement:

ii. Pre-Existing TPEs. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE generated in a prior year. (For purposes of this rule, a “year” is measured from end of Regular Season to end of Regular Season.)

So essentially it's Post-Game 82 to Trade Deadline.

jayjaysee wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Yeah Scoot posted that. I usually trust him. Maybe he can chime in.

scoot mcgroot wrote:can you explain to us idiots how this works

Pretty much. If Scoot posts it, I just believe it’s a snip from the CBA and ask no questions.

Most of my snips are direct from the nba CBA media summary, as it isolates the key points in a 9 page document. Anything that is confusing then leads me to dive directly to the actual CBA for a snip.

Colbinii wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
Yeah Scoot posted that. I usually trust him. Maybe he can chime in.

From the nba CBA agreement:

ii. Pre-Existing TPEs. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE generated in a prior year. (For purposes of this rule, a “year” is measured from end of Regular Season to end of Regular Season.)

So essentially it's Post-Game 82 to Trade Deadline.

Essentially. A team can still be treated as a corresponding apron team after game 82, as you put it, but they’re not locked into a hard cap unless they operate by completing a move that would restrict them from crossing an apron level.

If that makes sense.

I don't see the value here for the Kings. Not suggesting it's bad, but I don't see much difference between Barnes and JC considering contracts. While the Kings get the better end of the financial stick by around $3.5-4m in the first season. It's a negative $7.5m on the second season, which would be more important depending on how you look at it and what happens this off-season. A small nitpick I know.

Maybe it will be better to have a $26m expiring to make a big move so you could go either way.

I think it's probably too good for Utah. Adding 32 and sending it to one of the other teams maybe balances it a bit? I feel like it should go to Phoenix, but then this would also be locking Sacramento into part of their roster so maybe that's where it should go? Not sure. Would be open to also including Yurtseven who is a fine backup center for the money. Obviously not spectacular, but young, efficient, great rebounder.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

From the nba CBA agreement:

So essentially it's Post-Game 82 to Trade Deadline.

Essentially. A team can still be treated as a corresponding apron team after game 82, as you put it, but they’re not locked into a hard cap unless they operate by completing a move that would restrict them from crossing an apron level.

If that makes sense.

I'm surprised you are still posting, considering that the Suns should have obviously hired you by now. But seriously, we are so lucky to have you on the board.

OxAndFox wrote:I don't see the value here for the Kings. Not suggesting it's bad, but I don't see much difference between Barnes and JC considering contracts. While the Kings get the better end of the financial stick by around $3.5-4m in the first season. It's a negative $7.5m on the second season, which would be more important depending on how you look at it and what happens this off-season. A small nitpick I know.

Maybe it will be better to have a $26m expiring to make a big move so you could go either way.

That's certainly one side of the coin. The other is, as you mentioned, a salary ballast next off-season, but also the following:

-More Size at the 4
-Collins can play Small-ball 5, Barnes can't
-Collins is in his Mid-20s, unlike Barnes, so expecting any kind of drop-off from Collins isn't realistic
-The 3.5-4M Saved could very much allow the Kings to retain Monk and add a non-minimum player to round out their rotation.
-Collins is a High-70s Rim Finisher, Barnes is a Low-60s Rim Finish
-Collins averages nearly 2 Dunks/G in his career, Barnes averages less than .5 Dunks/G

I like Collins more than Barnes for Sac, so I'm fine with this.

That said do the Jazz really deserve the value here? Alot of the consensus is Barnes>Collins in value.

I'd propose a slight change-

Phoenix Out: #22, Nassir Little, TPE [Cameron Payne]
Phoenix In: Davion Mitchell*, Sasha Vezenkov, #29

Sacramento Out: Davion Mitchell, Harrison Barnes, Sasha Vezenkov, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd
Sacramento In: John Collins, Little, #22

Utah Out: John Collins, #29
Utah In: Harrison Barnes, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd

Colbinii wrote:

OxAndFox wrote:I don't see the value here for the Kings. Not suggesting it's bad, but I don't see much difference between Barnes and JC considering contracts. While the Kings get the better end of the financial stick by around $3.5-4m in the first season. It's a negative $7.5m on the second season, which would be more important depending on how you look at it and what happens this off-season. A small nitpick I know.

Maybe it will be better to have a $26m expiring to make a big move so you could go either way.

That's certainly one side of the coin. The other is, as you mentioned, a salary ballast next off-season, but also the following:

-More Size at the 4
-Collins can play Small-ball 5, Barnes can't
-Collins is in his Mid-20s, unlike Barnes, so expecting any kind of drop-off from Collins isn't realistic
-The 3.5-4M Saved could very much allow the Kings to retain Monk and add a non-minimum player to round out their rotation.
-Collins is a High-70s Rim Finisher, Barnes is a Low-60s Rim Finish
-Collins averages nearly 2 Dunks/G in his career, Barnes averages less than .5 Dunks/G

That why I mentioned it's not bad, but when you put Barnes in these points, it's not just him.
But let's stick with Barnes, there's a difference between being a 4th option on a 31 win team and 5/6th option on a 46 win team. IMO that's significant when assessing these guys.
Put Barnes in the same situation and his numbers automatically go up. I don't think anyone can doubt that. I don't think there is much, if anything difference in on court value at all. Yes, they give different positives/negatives, but I would give the nod to Barnes in trade value given salary. His age isn't really a consideration at this point is it? I mean the guy last missed a game on December 4, 2021.
But then you also add Davion and Vezenkov in the deal. I'm not suggesting these guys are outstanding value or anything, but you posted a trade of Mitchell to NY for #38. I feel the Kings are leaving decent value on the table here.

LightTheBeam wrote:I like Collins more than Barnes for Sac, so I'm fine with this.

That said do the Jazz really deserve the value here? Alot of the consensus is Barnes>Collins in value.

I'd propose a slight change-

Phoenix Out: #22, Nassir Little, TPE [Cameron Payne]
Phoenix In: Davion Mitchell*, Sasha Vezenkov, #29

Sacramento Out: Davion Mitchell, Harrison Barnes, Sasha Vezenkov, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd
Sacramento In: John Collins, Little, #22

Utah Out: John Collins, #29
Utah In: Harrison Barnes, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd

As a second apron team, Phoenix lost all their TPE’s the day after the regular season ended.

Colbinii wrote:

OxAndFox wrote:I don't see the value here for the Kings. Not suggesting it's bad, but I don't see much difference between Barnes and JC considering contracts. While the Kings get the better end of the financial stick by around $3.5-4m in the first season. It's a negative $7.5m on the second season, which would be more important depending on how you look at it and what happens this off-season. A small nitpick I know.

Maybe it will be better to have a $26m expiring to make a big move so you could go either way.

That's certainly one side of the coin. The other is, as you mentioned, a salary ballast next off-season, but also the following:

-More Size at the 4
-Collins can play Small-ball 5, Barnes can't
-Collins is in his Mid-20s, unlike Barnes, so expecting any kind of drop-off from Collins isn't realistic
-The 3.5-4M Saved could very much allow the Kings to retain Monk and add a non-minimum player to round out their rotation.
-Collins is a High-70s Rim Finisher, Barnes is a Low-60s Rim Finish
-Collins averages nearly 2 Dunks/G in his career, Barnes averages less than .5 Dunks/G

Thanks for saving me the time to type all this!

Scoot McGroot wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:I like Collins more than Barnes for Sac, so I'm fine with this.

That said do the Jazz really deserve the value here? Alot of the consensus is Barnes>Collins in value.

I'd propose a slight change-

Phoenix Out: #22, Nassir Little, TPE [Cameron Payne]
Phoenix In: Davion Mitchell*, Sasha Vezenkov, #29

Sacramento Out: Davion Mitchell, Harrison Barnes, Sasha Vezenkov, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd
Sacramento In: John Collins, Little, #22

Utah Out: John Collins, #29
Utah In: Harrison Barnes, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd

As a second apron team, Phoenix lost all their TPE’s the day after the regular season ended.

The question then is do they have any matching dead salary that can be sent to keep it even?

OGSactownballer wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:I like Collins more than Barnes for Sac, so I'm fine with this.

That said do the Jazz really deserve the value here? Alot of the consensus is Barnes>Collins in value.

I'd propose a slight change-

Phoenix Out: #22, Nassir Little, TPE [Cameron Payne]
Phoenix In: Davion Mitchell*, Sasha Vezenkov, #29

Sacramento Out: Davion Mitchell, Harrison Barnes, Sasha Vezenkov, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd
Sacramento In: John Collins, Little, #22

Utah Out: John Collins, #29
Utah In: Harrison Barnes, #45, 2025 Portland 2nd

As a second apron team, Phoenix lost all their TPE’s the day after the regular season ended.

The question then is do they have any matching dead salary that can be sent to keep it even?

Can you trade players who opt in to their second year player option?