RealGM

Some assumptions for this proposal: Dallas wants to create space to use the full NTMLE on DJJ; Monk is moving on and Sacramento wants to upgrade defensively; Toronto is taking up Brown's option in order to trade him.

Dallas: out - THJ, Prosper, #58, 25 Tor 2nd
Dallas: in - Freeman-Liberty, #45

Sacramento: out - Huerter, Vezenkov, #45, 25 Por 2nd
Sacramento: in - Brown, McDaniels, #58

Toronto: out - Brown, McDaniels, Freeman-Liberty
Toronto: in - THJ, Huerter, Prosper, Vezenkov, 25 Tor 2nd, 25 Por 2nd

Dallas sheds $17 million allowing them to use the full NTMLE on DJJ, with room to make additional moves under the tax and 1st apron, while also upgrading their pick this year.
Sacramento replaces Huerter with Brown's defence and versatility, while retaining enough room under the tax to use the full NTMLE, and creating substantial flexibilty next year when Brown and McDaniels both expire.
Toronto moves Brown out and takes on an extra $13 million this year plus Huerter's 2nd year in return for OMax and 2 2nds.

Toronto REALLY want's their 2nd back..maybe they should trade Barnes since they expect to be so bad in 2025!

I value Huerter > Brown, so that kills this deal for SAC

I don't see why Dallas has to include both Prosper and the Tor 2nd. One should suffice

And who in the blue world is Freeman-Liberty?

Colbinii wrote:Toronto REALLY want's their 2nd back..maybe they should trade Barnes since they expect to be so bad in 2025!

I value Huerter > Brown, so that kills this deal for SAC

How many 2nd rounders does Dallas have in the next 3 years. Feel free to substitute any you find. Beyond that, thanks for your thoughtful response.

islandboy53 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Toronto REALLY want's their 2nd back..maybe they should trade Barnes since they expect to be so bad in 2025!

I value Huerter > Brown, so that kills this deal for SAC

How many 2nd rounders does Dallas have in the next 3 years. Feel free to substitute any you find. Beyond that, thanks for your thoughtful response.

I have Huerter > Brown.

Maybe you value them as equal, but there isn't really a rationale for Brown > Huerter unless you truly believe 2021, 2022 and 2023 Huerter aren't something Huerter can return to as a level of play in the NBA.

If that is the case, I assume multiple NBA teams assume a 26-year old can return to that level given the level of shooter he is.

Continue on, Islandboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

daoneandonly wrote:I don't see why Dallas has to include both Prosper and the Tor 2nd. One should suffice

And who in the blue world is Freeman-Liberty?

Drop the 2nd if you wish. Prosper helps to create space. Freeman-Liberty was converted from a 2 way late in the season, and is on a minimum. He's there to generate enough outgoing salary to make this work.

Colbinii wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Toronto REALLY want's their 2nd back..maybe they should trade Barnes since they expect to be so bad in 2025!

I value Huerter > Brown, so that kills this deal for SAC

How many 2nd rounders does Dallas have in the next 3 years. Feel free to substitute any you find. Beyond that, thanks for your thoughtful response.

I have Huerter > Brown.

Maybe you value them as equal, but there isn't really a rationale for Brown > Huerter unless you truly believe 2021, 2022 and 2023 Huerter aren't something Huerter can return to as a level of play in the NBA.

If that is the case, I assume multiple NBA teams assume a 26-year old can return to that level given the level of shooter he is.

Continue on, Islandboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Huerter is a better 3 pt shooter, Brown is a better defender and rebounder. They generate similar numbers of assists, though Brown is more ability to serve as a secondary ball handler than Huerter. I have Brown > Huerter. I also share the opinion that the Kings need to up their defensive game, and Brown replacing Huerter does that. Moreover, Brown's expiring salary provides flexibility for the Kings next year, and a larger matching salary should the Kings decide to make a substantial trade during the season.

Also, I'm still waiting for all of those other 2nd rounders the Mavericks have in the next 3 years which could be used in lieu of the Toronto 25.

If I’m Sac I don’t do this simply to force Dallas to become a tax team and have to lose a key starting piece off a finals (???) team.

We are in the same conference you know and there is no good reason for us to downgrade a position to improve a competitor.

islandboy53 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:
How many 2nd rounders does Dallas have in the next 3 years. Feel free to substitute any you find. Beyond that, thanks for your thoughtful response.

I have Huerter > Brown.

Maybe you value them as equal, but there isn't really a rationale for Brown > Huerter unless you truly believe 2021, 2022 and 2023 Huerter aren't something Huerter can return to as a level of play in the NBA.

If that is the case, I assume multiple NBA teams assume a 26-year old can return to that level given the level of shooter he is.

Continue on, Islandboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Huerter is a better 3 pt shooter, Brown is a better defender and rebounder. They generate similar numbers of assists, though Brown is more ability to serve as a secondary ball handler than Huerter. I have Brown > Huerter. I also share the opinion that the Kings need to up their defensive game, and Brown replacing Huerter does that. Moreover, Brown's expiring salary provides flexibility for the Kings next year, and a larger matching salary should the Kings decide to make a substantial trade during the season.

Also, I'm still waiting for all of those other 2nd rounders the Mavericks have in the next 3 years which could be used in lieu of the Toronto 25.

You're correct in that Brown is a better defender and the kings need to up their defensive game.
That doesn't dismiss that Huerter is a good NBA player. Yes he had a down year for a number of reasons. Lowest shot attempts in his career equal with his rookie season and lowest minutes of his career. They will all go up next season.
One thing that often gets overlooked by people when talking about Huerter is his playmaking ability. He didn't get to showcase it as much this season just gone, but the year prior he did and it was impressive.

And if say Huerters value dropped because of a down year, then so did Bruce Brown.

If I were the Kings I would want assets to do this deal, instead you have the Kings sending out Vezenkov as well on top of the Portland 2nd. Both of which the Kings value.

Dallas overpaying to open way more money then they need to. Huerter is better then brown.

BeiBeau wrote:Dallas overpaying to open way more money then they need to. Huerter is better then brown.

This move puts them about $14.5 million below the tax line, which gives them room to use the full $12.9 million NTMLE on DJJ. If they somehow don't need all of that, they'll have more available to fill the final 2 roster spots. The only way you're creating that much space is moving Hardaway for nothing, which this effectively does. Sending OMax and a 2nd to move that much salary doesn't seem unfair. Huerter, in my opinion, is not better than Brown. They bring different things to the table. I think Brown is more useful to Sacramento at this point, and Vezenkov seems likely to be moved to create space anyway. This move is basically Huerter for Brown combined with using a 2nd to dump Vezenkov. I assume you want to just roll it back, hoping #13 is all you need to get better, but Sacramento needs to do more than that.

Toronto sending crap and get assets. Ma s overpaying

OxAndFox wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
I have Huerter > Brown.

Maybe you value them as equal, but there isn't really a rationale for Brown > Huerter unless you truly believe 2021, 2022 and 2023 Huerter aren't something Huerter can return to as a level of play in the NBA.

If that is the case, I assume multiple NBA teams assume a 26-year old can return to that level given the level of shooter he is.

Continue on, Islandboiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Huerter is a better 3 pt shooter, Brown is a better defender and rebounder. They generate similar numbers of assists, though Brown is more ability to serve as a secondary ball handler than Huerter. I have Brown > Huerter. I also share the opinion that the Kings need to up their defensive game, and Brown replacing Huerter does that. Moreover, Brown's expiring salary provides flexibility for the Kings next year, and a larger matching salary should the Kings decide to make a substantial trade during the season.

Also, I'm still waiting for all of those other 2nd rounders the Mavericks have in the next 3 years which could be used in lieu of the Toronto 25.

You're correct in that Brown is a better defender and the kings need to up their defensive game.
That doesn't dismiss that Huerter is a good NBA player. Yes he had a down year for a number of reasons. Lowest shot attempts in his career equal with his rookie season and lowest minutes of his career. They will all go up next season.
One thing that often gets overlooked by people when talking about Huerter is his playmaking ability. He didn't get to showcase it as much this season just gone, but the year prior he did and it was impressive.

And if say Huerters value dropped because of a down year, then so did Bruce Brown.

If I were the Kings I would want assets to do this deal, instead you have the Kings sending out Vezenkov as well on top of the Portland 2nd. Both of which the Kings value.

Brown and Huerter are both good NBA players. I actually never said anything about Huerter's value dropping. I just think that the Kings need to go in a different direction, and this is one way of doing that. Vezenkov is likely to be salary dumped at some point to create flexibility this year. In this proposal, Toronto is taking on Huerter's $18 million next year, and accommodating that salary dump, in return for a very useful player who helps them become a better defensive team, which they need, while providing expiring salary to create flexibilty next year, all in return for a 2nd rounder. They're certainly not sending assets back. If you want to keep Huerter and get better defensively at the same time, this proposal is not going to work.

Apz wrote:Toronto sending crap and get assets. Ma s overpaying

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful response.

islandboy53 wrote:

BeiBeau wrote:Dallas overpaying to open way more money then they need to. Huerter is better then brown.

This move puts them about $14.5 million below the tax line, which gives them room to use the full $12.9 million NTMLE on DJJ. If they somehow don't need all of that, they'll have more available to fill the final 2 roster spots. The only way you're creating that much space is moving Hardaway for nothing, which this effectively does. Sending OMax and a 2nd to move that much salary doesn't seem unfair. Huerter, in my opinion, is not better than Brown. They bring different things to the table. I think Brown is more useful to Sacramento at this point, and Vezenkov seems likely to be moved to create space anyway. This move is basically Huerter for Brown combined with using a 2nd to dump Vezenkov. I assume you want to just roll it back, hoping #13 is all you need to get better, but Sacramento needs to do more than that.

I like Brown, he is a nice player that brings the D. The Kings need players that defend at a high level. But those players need LENGTH. IMO Brown is not the answer. I'd be willing to take a flyer on a player like OMax along with Brown in a modified version of this deal.

islandboy53 wrote:

OxAndFox wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:
Huerter is a better 3 pt shooter, Brown is a better defender and rebounder. They generate similar numbers of assists, though Brown is more ability to serve as a secondary ball handler than Huerter. I have Brown > Huerter. I also share the opinion that the Kings need to up their defensive game, and Brown replacing Huerter does that. Moreover, Brown's expiring salary provides flexibility for the Kings next year, and a larger matching salary should the Kings decide to make a substantial trade during the season.

Also, I'm still waiting for all of those other 2nd rounders the Mavericks have in the next 3 years which could be used in lieu of the Toronto 25.

You're correct in that Brown is a better defender and the kings need to up their defensive game.
That doesn't dismiss that Huerter is a good NBA player. Yes he had a down year for a number of reasons. Lowest shot attempts in his career equal with his rookie season and lowest minutes of his career. They will all go up next season.
One thing that often gets overlooked by people when talking about Huerter is his playmaking ability. He didn't get to showcase it as much this season just gone, but the year prior he did and it was impressive.

And if say Huerters value dropped because of a down year, then so did Bruce Brown.

If I were the Kings I would want assets to do this deal, instead you have the Kings sending out Vezenkov as well on top of the Portland 2nd. Both of which the Kings value.

Brown and Huerter are both good NBA players. I actually never said anything about Huerter's value dropping. I just think that the Kings need to go in a different direction, and this is one way of doing that. Vezenkov is likely to be salary dumped at some point to create flexibility this year. In this proposal, Toronto is taking on Huerter's $18 million next year, and accommodating that salary dump, in return for a very useful player who helps them become a better defensive team, which they need, while providing expiring salary to create flexibilty next year, all in return for a 2nd rounder. They're certainly not sending assets back. If you want to keep Huerter and get better defensively at the same time, this proposal is not going to work.

So if you think Brown is more valuable or better than Huerter, that's fine. Let's just agree to disagree on that here and say they are equal.

Sacramento: out - Vezenkov, #45, 25 Por 2nd
Sacramento: in - McDaniels, #58
In what world is that something Sacramento would do?

I'm not sure where you're getting Vezenkov is likely to be salary dumped?? The Kings view him as a definite asset.

I feel Brown is getting underrated...
He's a PO rotation player on most teams, his problem is he's paid double his contribution, and TOR doean't need to pay him, that's why it's hard to find the rifht trade.

King Baller wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

BeiBeau wrote:Dallas overpaying to open way more money then they need to. Huerter is better then brown.

This move puts them about $14.5 million below the tax line, which gives them room to use the full $12.9 million NTMLE on DJJ. If they somehow don't need all of that, they'll have more available to fill the final 2 roster spots. The only way you're creating that much space is moving Hardaway for nothing, which this effectively does. Sending OMax and a 2nd to move that much salary doesn't seem unfair. Huerter, in my opinion, is not better than Brown. They bring different things to the table. I think Brown is more useful to Sacramento at this point, and Vezenkov seems likely to be moved to create space anyway. This move is basically Huerter for Brown combined with using a 2nd to dump Vezenkov. I assume you want to just roll it back, hoping #13 is all you need to get better, but Sacramento needs to do more than that.

I like Brown, he is a nice player that brings the D. The Kings need players that defend at a high level. But those players need LENGTH. IMO Brown is not the answer. I'd be willing to take a flyer on a player like OMax along with Brown in a modified version of this deal.

Let's try this. Dallas dumps Powell on Toronto and gets Jones from the Kings, to generate an extra $2 million in savings this year, and extra flexibility next year. The Kings get Omax for Jones, and switch Duarte for Vezenkov to make the $ work for Toronto. Toronto loses Prosper and needs some compensation for taking on Powell's 2 years.

Dallas: out - THJ, Powell, Prosper, #58, 25 Tor 2nd, 28 Cha/LAC 2nd
Dallas: in - Freeman-Liberty, Jones, #45, 28 Sac 2nd

Sacramento: out - Huerter, Duarte, Jones, #45, 25 Por 2nd, 28 Sac 2nd
Sacramento: in - Brown, McDaniels, Prosper, #58

Toronto: out - Brown, McDaniels, Freeman-Liberty
Toronto: in - THJ, Huerter, Duarte, Powell, 25 Tor 2nd, 25 Por 2nd, 28 Cha/LAC 2nd

Makes no sense for Dallas to give up Prosper and multiple 2nds to turn THJ into dead weight players. Dallas doesn't need to save that much money so asking them to just punt resources makes no sense.

OxAndFox wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

OxAndFox wrote:
You're correct in that Brown is a better defender and the kings need to up their defensive game.
That doesn't dismiss that Huerter is a good NBA player. Yes he had a down year for a number of reasons. Lowest shot attempts in his career equal with his rookie season and lowest minutes of his career. They will all go up next season.
One thing that often gets overlooked by people when talking about Huerter is his playmaking ability. He didn't get to showcase it as much this season just gone, but the year prior he did and it was impressive.

And if say Huerters value dropped because of a down year, then so did Bruce Brown.

If I were the Kings I would want assets to do this deal, instead you have the Kings sending out Vezenkov as well on top of the Portland 2nd. Both of which the Kings value.

Brown and Huerter are both good NBA players. I actually never said anything about Huerter's value dropping. I just think that the Kings need to go in a different direction, and this is one way of doing that. Vezenkov is likely to be salary dumped at some point to create flexibility this year. In this proposal, Toronto is taking on Huerter's $18 million next year, and accommodating that salary dump, in return for a very useful player who helps them become a better defensive team, which they need, while providing expiring salary to create flexibilty next year, all in return for a 2nd rounder. They're certainly not sending assets back. If you want to keep Huerter and get better defensively at the same time, this proposal is not going to work.

So if you think Brown is more valuable or better than Huerter, that's fine. Let's just agree to disagree on that here and say they are equal.

Sacramento: out - Vezenkov, #45, 25 Por 2nd
Sacramento: in - McDaniels, #58
In what world is that something Sacramento would do?

I'm not sure where you're getting Vezenkov is likely to be salary dumped?? The Kings view him as a definite asset.

Let's assume Vezenkov is retained, and we replace him in the proposal with Duarte. As to Brown vs Huerter, let's say that I think Brown is more useful to the Kings than Huerter, both as a key piece of a more defensive oriented team, and as an expiring who would give them a lot of cap flexibilty next summer. From that perspective, Sacramento needs to add something. I've proposed Duarte and the Portland 2nd, neither of which has much value. 45 for 58 is a way to ensure that the Kings and the Mavs "touch" each other in the trade. McDaniels is filler that is needed to make the overall package work. he could be replaced with Freeman-Liberty to give the Kings a little extra operating room under the tax line. Bottom line, though, it's Brown and McDaniels for Huerter, Vezenkov (or Duarte) and the 2nd.