Simple Spurs/Kings

[SNPA]

The Spurs are not drafting four rookies this year with all those other picks to come.

Kings need to stay under the tax and get longer.

Davion Mitchell for 35

Spurs take him into space. I think he is a Pop guy. His shooting took a big jump. I’m fully aware this could look bad for Sac at some point. But that depends on who they select (Enrique Freeman would be my guy here).

Sac needs to stay under the tax this season and assigning a value to Mitchell is hard for Sac. For a second team it will be clear.

[Godaddycurse]

I think spurs are drafting a PG with one of their lotto pick and wont need davion

[CraftylikeaFox]

I'd rather just hang onto Davion and try and include him in a package for a rotational player. But I do think his value of between 27/28 - 35 is pretty fair.

[wemby]

Davion Mitchell is absolute trash, one season of shooting close to league average on low volume doesn't change that. To put it in perspective, he made 57/158 threes last season, which is 36.1%. If he'd made just 3 less, he'd be at 34.2%. You can't reliably say anything there, his 'improvement' can simply be luck. Bottom line, Spurs don't need Kings' garbage. If they don't want to use pick 35 they can surely find better deals than this.

[Chinook]

I ... I thought we were safe from Davion Mitchell-to-SA threads. I used to hear "He's a Pop player" in my nightmares. I thought I was out...

Anyways, I actually like 35's place on the board. There is a mix of senior production and raw upside that could make for a good selection of players to choose from. I like bringing in a high-floor PG to backfill for Jones or a center prospect to replace Bassey with that pick.

[Godaddycurse]

I ... I thought we were safe from Davion Mitchell-to-SA threads. I used to hear "He's a Pop player" in my nightmares. I thought I was out...

Anyways, I actually like 35's place on the board. There is a mix of senior production and raw upside that could make for a good selection of players to choose from. I like bringing in a high-floor PG to backfill for Jones or a center prospect to replace Bassey with that pick.

you'll stop hearing he's a pop player when pop retires

[OxAndFox]

Davion Mitchell is absolute trash, one season of shooting close to league average on low volume doesn't change that. To put it in perspective, he made 57/158 threes last season, which is 36.1%. If he'd made just 3 less, he'd be at 34.2%. You can't reliably say anything there, his 'improvement' can simply be luck. Bottom line, Spurs don't need Kings' garbage. If they don't want to use pick 35 they can surely find better deals than this.

I get it. And I'm not saying you should be open to Davion.
He shot over 40% from 3 after the AS break.
His off season last year was with Steph and his shooting coach and realistically his shot looks a lot better. Moving forward IMO he will be a decent 3pt shooter. Earlier in the season Davion was one of a few guys that Mike Brown destroyed (for all of Mike Browns good points, 1 thing he does is look at a players strengths and pushes back against it, rather than lean into it).
For some reason this coaching staff wouldn't allow Mitchell to play to his strengths on offense. Once they did after the AS break we saw a much better version of him.
The question is, does another coach allow him to play his game? If not, stay away.
That game consists of driving to the bucket and mid range shots. This coaching staff took the mid range shots away and it completely took Davions game away.
It looks like to me, if you don't allow him to do it, he doesn't know how to adjust because he isn't a ball dominant PG that will play make etc. That in itself might be reason enough to not want him I understand.

[wemby]

Davion Mitchell is absolute trash, one season of shooting close to league average on low volume doesn't change that. To put it in perspective, he made 57/158 threes last season, which is 36.1%. If he'd made just 3 less, he'd be at 34.2%. You can't reliably say anything there, his 'improvement' can simply be luck. Bottom line, Spurs don't need Kings' garbage. If they don't want to use pick 35 they can surely find better deals than this.

I get it. And I'm not saying you should be open to Davion.
He shot over 40% from 3 after the AS break.
His off season last year was with Steph and his shooting coach and realistically his shot looks a lot better. Moving forward IMO he will be a decent 3pt shooter. Earlier in the season Davion was one of a few guys that Mike Brown destroyed (for all of Mike Browns good points, 1 thing he does is look at a players strengths and pushes back against it, rather than lean into it).
For some reason this coaching staff wouldn't allow Mitchell to play to his strengths on offense. Once they did after the AS break we saw a much better version of him.
The question is, does another coach allow him to play his game? If not, stay away.
That game consists of driving to the bucket and mid range shots. This coaching staff took the mid range shots away and it completely took Davions game away.
It looks like to me, if you don't allow him to do it, he doesn't know how to adjust because he isn't a ball dominant PG that will play make etc. That in itself might be reason enough to not want him I understand.

at taking a subsample out of an already small, outlier sample. It's such a flawed use of statistics it's walking the fine line between horrendous and hilarious. Devion would be an end of the bench guy even on the Spurs (Tre Jones is miles ahead, and even Blake Wesley is a better prospect and much younger). Spurs already have plenty of fringe NBA players, they're not looking to add another one for free, let alone paying a high 2nd rounder for him. Probably Pop has a longer NBA career ahead of him than Davion Mitchell.

[madskillz8]

Davion Mitchell is absolute trash, one season of shooting close to league average on low volume doesn't change that. To put it in perspective, he made 57/158 threes last season, which is 36.1%. If he'd made just 3 less, he'd be at 34.2%. You can't reliably say anything there, his 'improvement' can simply be luck. Bottom line, Spurs don't need Kings' garbage. If they don't want to use pick 35 they can surely find better deals than this.

That's a very weird argument. If he'd made 5 more, he would be elite then?

There is a good reason for watching games in supplement of stats sheets. His shooting mechanics are visibly improved and now has a high arc - I remember so many in and out attempts. Thus, it's more likely for him to keep his percentages or improve.


And if the return is 35, I'd prefer giving him another chance. At least he's a specialist: very good at defensive end and provide good rotational minutes particularly against scoring PGs to give them "Off Nights". I'd blame Mike Brown for messing with rotations - didn't help Vezenkov, Mitchell, Huerter - neither are trash (see Huerter, a season prior) yet MB's rotation mismanagement killed their confidence. He is super undecided, damn he even started KZ Okpala, before letting Kings release him a few days later. Why are you trying to make him a starter in the first place if you don't see him even a bench player?

All in all, Spurs should better grab Trae Young with 35th pick, or add four more players to their "trash" roster. Is this how it works?

[gswhoops]

Davion Mitchell is absolute trash, one season of shooting close to league average on low volume doesn't change that. To put it in perspective, he made 57/158 threes last season, which is 36.1%. If he'd made just 3 less, he'd be at 34.2%. You can't reliably say anything there, his 'improvement' can simply be luck. Bottom line, Spurs don't need Kings' garbage. If they don't want to use pick 35 they can surely find better deals than this.

You can be against this deal without resorting to hyperbole. Davion is a fine bench guard. It's understandable if you're not interested in trading for him but "absolute trash" is just simply not true.

[OxAndFox]

Davion Mitchell is absolute trash, one season of shooting close to league average on low volume doesn't change that. To put it in perspective, he made 57/158 threes last season, which is 36.1%. If he'd made just 3 less, he'd be at 34.2%. You can't reliably say anything there, his 'improvement' can simply be luck. Bottom line, Spurs don't need Kings' garbage. If they don't want to use pick 35 they can surely find better deals than this.

I get it. And I'm not saying you should be open to Davion.
He shot over 40% from 3 after the AS break.
His off season last year was with Steph and his shooting coach and realistically his shot looks a lot better. Moving forward IMO he will be a decent 3pt shooter. Earlier in the season Davion was one of a few guys that Mike Brown destroyed (for all of Mike Browns good points, 1 thing he does is look at a players strengths and pushes back against it, rather than lean into it).
For some reason this coaching staff wouldn't allow Mitchell to play to his strengths on offense. Once they did after the AS break we saw a much better version of him.
The question is, does another coach allow him to play his game? If not, stay away.
That game consists of driving to the bucket and mid range shots. This coaching staff took the mid range shots away and it completely took Davions game away.
It looks like to me, if you don't allow him to do it, he doesn't know how to adjust because he isn't a ball dominant PG that will play make etc. That in itself might be reason enough to not want him I understand.

at taken a subsample out of an already small, outlier sample. It's such a flawed use of statistics it's walking the fine line between horrendous and hilarious. Devion would be an end of the bench guy even on the Spurs (Tre Jones is miles ahead, and even Blake Wesley is a better prospect and much younger). Spurs already have plenty of fringe NBA players, they're not looking to add another one for free, let alone paying a high 2nd rounder for him. Probably Pop has a longer NBA career ahead of him than Davion Mitchell.

Cool Bro. You're the one that used an IF to justify his horrendous shooting.
Like if my aunty had a D$ck she'd be my uncle.

[wemby]

That's a very weird argument. If he'd made 5 more, he would be elite then?

He'd be NEITHER because there's a large margin for error, like you say, his true shooting percentage could be 38% or 34% if a few threes fall half an inch one way or the other. That is why you look at the big picture and see he's been a horrendous shooter his entire career, and common sense dictates you should be skeptical of a true improvement of his shot by just cherry picking a small sample.

There is good reason for watching games in supplement of stats sheets. His shooting mechanics are visibly improved and now has a high arc - I remember so many in and out attempts. Thus, it's more likely for him to keep his percentages or improve.

And if the return is 35, I'd prefer giving him another chance. At least he's a specialist: very good at defensive end and provide good rotational minutes particularly against scoring PGs to give them "Off Nights". I'd blame Mike Brown for messing with rotations - didn't help Vezenkov, Mitchell, Huerter. Neither are trash (see Huerter, a season prior) yet MB's rotation mismanagement killed their confidence. He is super undecided, damn he even started KZ Okpala, before letting Kings release him a few days later. Why are you trying to make him a starter in the first place if you don't see even a bench player?

Dude is almost 26, he's not the victim of an unfavorable set of circumstances over a short period of time, he's just not a very good NBA player.

All in all, Spurs should better grab Trae Young with 35th pick, or add four more players to their "trash" roster. Is this how it works?

No, 35 shouldn't get you an all star nor a failed prospect, simply an unproven one who can turn out either way. Plenty of guards this year could fit that description better than Mitchell, like Kolek, KJ Simpson, Jamal Shead, Cam Spencer, Tristen Newton, etc. I'd take my chances with unproven prospects over proven failed ones.

[wemby]

Cool Bro. You're the one that used an IF to justify his horrendous shooting.
Like if my aunty had a D$ck she'd be my uncle.

I used a conditional to illustrate how those percentages are susceptible to minor variations, but clearly you don't understand that. Even a bad shooter will have streaks where his numbers look better, after his trade to the Clippers Westbrook shot 35.6% from 3, this season he went down to 27.3%. Did he improve and then regress? Of course not. If you want a better indicator of what kind of shooter Davion Mitchell is, you cherry pick nothing but rather simply take his career 32.7% 3P shooting numbers and his barely 70% from the line, and that's even on very low volume, and that's who he is. Until he consistently improves those numbers over a full season on high volume, you can't say he's an improved shooter with any confidence.

[madskillz8]

That's a very weird argument. If he'd made 5 more, he would be elite then?

He'd be NEITHER because there's a large margin of error, like you say, his true shooting percentage could be 38% or 34% if a few threes fall half an inch one way or the other. That is why you look at the big picture and see he's been a horrendous shooter his entire career, and common sense dictates you should be skeptical of a true improvement of his shot by just cherry picking a small sample.

There is good reason for watching games in supplement of stats sheets. His shooting mechanics are visibly improved and now has a high arc - I remember so many in and out attempts. Thus, it's more likely for him to keep his percentages or improve.

And if the return is 35, I'd prefer giving him another chance. At least he's a specialist: very good at defensive end and provide good rotational minutes particularly against scoring PGs to give them "Off Nights". I'd blame Mike Brown for messing with rotations - didn't help Vezenkov, Mitchell, Huerter. Neither are trash (see Huerter, a season prior) yet MB's rotation mismanagement killed their confidence. He is super undecided, damn he even started KZ Okpala, before letting Kings release him a few days later. Why are you trying to make him a starter in the first place if you don't see even a bench player?

Dude is almost 26, he's not the victim of an unfavorable set of circumstances for a short period of time, he's just not a very good NBA player.

All in all, Spurs should better grab Trae Young with 35th pick, or add four more players to their "trash" roster. Is this how it works?

No, 35 shouldn't get you an all star nor a failed prospect, simply an unproven one who can turn out either way. Plenty of guards this year could fit that description better than Mitchell, like Kolek, KJ Simpson, Jamal Shead, Cam Spencer, Tristen Newton, etc. I'd take my chances with unproven prospects over proven failed ones.

1. I understand your argument on small sample size but it is actually not, neither statistically (N>30) nor basketball-specific (>2 attempts per game as a bench player 15mpg). Of course this analysis would be more accurate if he attempts 1000 shots but that's not how percentages work in real life. But the point where you mainly stumble is to assume that it works like natural phenomena where probability distributions does not change over time. Otherwise, you cannot explain the steady improvement of players over time as well as their falls, and of course MIP seasons of some players. Working over your shot with a shooting coach for months can change this distribution significantly, especially in your just 3rd year. Believe it or not, players can improve over time - especially when they work hard on their games. Last offseason, Davion worked hard on his shot, and improved his mechanics both visibly and statistically in his third NBA season. Again, to escape from that margin of error you mentioned, we have an important tool: watching games to see if a player's shooting has improved.

Watch on YouTube

2. Now you said "he's not a very good player". I also don't think he's very good. There are like 100 players between "not very good player" and "absolute trash", you don't have to be very good to be a decent rotation player.

3. Last seasons, MB messed the rotations for a big time - and it didn't help some players especially the ones who are trying to have bigger roles. Kings failed hard but I don't think it is Davion's fault at all.

All in all, there are players where their value is higher for their own teams than their market value. You can say his worth is 35, one can say I won't give 35 for him, and I can say I won't give Davion for 35. And that's what I am saying. I don't work for Kings FO, thus I am not trying to sell you Davion to get a higher in return.

[OxAndFox]

Cool Bro. You're the one that used an IF to justify his horrendous shooting.
Like if my aunty had a D$ck she'd be my uncle.

I used a conditional to illustrate how those percentages are susceptible to minor variations, but clearly you don't understand that. Even a bad shooter will have streaks where his numbers look better, after his trade to the Clippers Westbrook shot 35.6% from 3, this season he went down to 27.3%. Did he improve and then regress? Of course not. If you want a better indicator of what kind of shooter Davion Mitchell is, you cherry pick nothing but rather simply take his career 32.7% 3P shooting numbers and his barely 70% from the line, and that's even on very low volume, and that's who he is. Until he consistently improves those numbers over a full season on high volume, you can't say he's an improved shooter with any confidence.

Again. Cool Bro. {insert Pop thumbs up GIF}

[SNPA]

Failed prospect? He played rotation minutes on a playoff caliber team as a rookie and sophomore.

Some Kings fans, myself included, are still pissed MB decided to fully take him off of Curry in game seven…Curry went for 50.

His nickname isn’t random. He is a top tier POA defender at the PG spot. I buy his shot too. He worked on his dip. It shows.

[wemby]

Failed prospect? He played rotation minutes on a playoff caliber team as a rookie and sophomore.

Some Kings fans, myself included, are still pissed MB decided to fully take him off of Curry in game seven…Curry went for 50.

His nickname isn’t random. He is a top tier POA defender at the PG spot. I buy his shot too. He worked on his dip. It shows.

Well, I guess we had our answer

[SNPA]

Failed prospect? He played rotation minutes on a playoff caliber team as a rookie and sophomore.

Some Kings fans, myself included, are still pissed MB decided to fully take him off of Curry in game seven…Curry went for 50.

His nickname isn’t random. He is a top tier POA defender at the PG spot. I buy his shot too. He worked on his dip. It shows.

Well, I guess we had our answer

Monte got taken in that deal. Kings fans all agree. The only question is, did he do it because it’s a needed setup or did he just screwup with bad cap management and had to pay a premium.

Raptors got a solid backup PG. if his shooting continues like it was the later half of last season the Raptors will be thrilled and he’ll be getting another contract.

[wemby]

Failed prospect? He played rotation minutes on a playoff caliber team as a rookie and sophomore.

Some Kings fans, myself included, are still pissed MB decided to fully take him off of Curry in game seven…Curry went for 50.

His nickname isn’t random. He is a top tier POA defender at the PG spot. I buy his shot too. He worked on his dip. It shows.

Well, I guess we had our answer

Monte got taken in that deal. Kings fans all agree. The only question is, did he do it because it’s a needed setup or did he just screwup with bad cap management and had to pay a premium.

Raptors got a solid backup PG. if his shooting continues like it was the later half of last season the Raptors will be thrilled and he’ll be getting another contract.

GM wasn't wrong, Kings fans as a whole aren't a reliable source on their players valuations, just as Blazers and Raptors fans aren't. Dude got salary dumped because he is trash. You should be happy you took a much better prospect in Devin Carter and re-signed Monk for cheap. Devion sucks.

[SNPA]

Well, I guess we had our answer

Monte got taken in that deal. Kings fans all agree. The only question is, did he do it because it’s a needed setup or did he just screwup with bad cap management and had to pay a premium.

Raptors got a solid backup PG. if his shooting continues like it was the later half of last season the Raptors will be thrilled and he’ll be getting another contract.

Kings fans as a whole aren't a reliable source on their players valuations, just as Blazers and Raptors fans aren't. Dude got salary dumped because he is trash. You should be happy you took a much better prospect in Devin Carter and re-signed Monk for cheap. Devion sucks.

Carter is a better prospect. That doesn’t make Davion trash. He did get salary dumped -in a lopsided deal- and I just explained why.