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X+13 for Kelly/19/31

Sac does it to get a great backup for Sabonis that allows them to run the same style when he is off the court and diversifies their picks and increases optionality (a favorite term for McNair).

The Raptors need building blocks and consulate by moving up.

Who would the Raptors want in return salary? Barnes? Huerter? Davion/Sasha?

Huerter makes the most sense, especially once we all realize they are moving on from Gary Trent Jr

Colbinii wrote:Huerter makes the most sense, especially once we all realize they are moving on from Gary Trent Jr

Huerter/13 for Kelly/19/31

I think that’s fair and could make sense, especially if Toronto has a guy they like but aren’t sure he’ll be around at 19.

Raptors are rumored to be trying to move up so maybe if theres someone they really like?

I’d be fine with this and then look to flip 19 for the Kincks two picks or for a future (‘25 ideally) first that is not protected past ten for that year.

I want to see the team get value out of 13, but I also believe that this draft is flat so that trading back to minimal guaranteed money or a future obligation is the best scenario if they actually draft.

OGSactownballer wrote:I’d be fine with this and then look to flip 19 for the Kincks two picks or for a future (‘25 ideally) first that is not protected past ten for that year.

I want to see the team get value out of 13, but I also believe that this draft is flat so that trading back to minimal guaranteed money or a future obligation is the best scenario if they actually draft.

Yeah absolutely. I think Monte might still get his man around the 20s. Could be Holmes.
Masai might be sold on someone that definitely won't make it through to #19 too. Think this is a good trade for both.

OxAndFox wrote:

OGSactownballer wrote:I’d be fine with this and then look to flip 19 for the Kincks two picks or for a future (‘25 ideally) first that is not protected past ten for that year.

I want to see the team get value out of 13, but I also believe that this draft is flat so that trading back to minimal guaranteed money or a future obligation is the best scenario if they actually draft.

Yeah absolutely. I think Monte might still get his man around the 20s. Could be Holmes.
Masai might be sold on someone that definitely won't make it through to #19 too. Think this is a good trade for both.

I think Toronto passes on this deal, hangs on to Olynyk, who is actually useful in Toronto, and flips 19 for 24 and 25. I'm sure Masai can find 2 good role players, which is important to the Raptors in this stage of their rebuild.

Not sure the Knicks are just going to hand you 24 and 25 like that. I mean maybe if they love a guy, but even then you probably owe them some value back. But you certainly can't count on that specific of an opportunity as a reason for not doing something else.

Raps did not trade for, then sign Olynyk just to trade him 2 months later. They want what he brings to the lineup.

Brown will be the one they try and trade in any deal to move up...if they indeed are trying to do that.

Texas Chuck wrote:Not sure the Knicks are just going to hand you 24 and 25 like that. I mean maybe if they love a guy, but even then you probably owe them some value back. But you certainly can't count on that specific of an opportunity as a reason for not doing something else.

Adding 25 to 24 to move up 6 spots is in the average range historically for that kind of move. I’ll track you down a reference later to confirm that if you want. That said, as was just mentioned, Toronto just traded for and extended Olynyk. He fits what the team is trying to do at this point in the rebuilding phase, so he’s not going anywhere just now. Brown, on the other hand, is going to be moved.

Tripod wrote:Raps did not trade for, then sign Olynyk just to trade him 2 months later. They want what he brings to the lineup.

Brown will be the one they try and trade in any deal to move up...if they indeed are trying to do that.

Curious…when I look at the Raptors I see -at minimum- the need for a third player as good or better than RJ. That’d be my primary goal rebuilding if I’m going with Barnes/RJ.

How to acquire that player? I don’t see beyond this year where the draft assets look promising to fill that role. Without trading one of RJ or Barnes in the deal there isn’t sufficient trade assets. Would Toronto be willing to sacrifice to get far enough below the cap to sign this third guy? And would that guy be willing to sign in Toronto?

The quickest and -maybe likeliest- path to getting that player is leveraging this years two picks and other assets to move up (unless Toronto is comfortable they will get their man at 19).

SNPA wrote:

Tripod wrote:Raps did not trade for, then sign Olynyk just to trade him 2 months later. They want what he brings to the lineup.

Brown will be the one they try and trade in any deal to move up...if they indeed are trying to do that.

Curious…when I look at the Raptors I see -at minimum- the need for a third player as good or better than RJ. That’d be my primary goal rebuilding if I’m going with Barnes/RJ.

How to acquire that player? I don’t see beyond this year where the draft assets look promising to fill that role. Without trading one of RJ or Barnes in the deal there isn’t sufficient trade assets. Would Toronto be willing to sacrifice to get far enough below the cap to sign this third guy? And would that guy be willing to sign in Toronto?

The quickest and -maybe likeliest- path to getting that player is leveraging this years two picks and other assets to move up (unless Toronto is comfortable they will get their man at 19).

No the likeliest path is tank our way to a high pick in a much stronger 2025 draft class. The year end interviews suggested as much, telling us to be patient thst it takes a few yrs to get back into contention/playoffs.

13 or 19/31 either way more likely than not we are ending up with role player(s) this year if they pan out

Godaddycurse wrote:

SNPA wrote:

Tripod wrote:Raps did not trade for, then sign Olynyk just to trade him 2 months later. They want what he brings to the lineup.

Brown will be the one they try and trade in any deal to move up...if they indeed are trying to do that.

Curious…when I look at the Raptors I see -at minimum- the need for a third player as good or better than RJ. That’d be my primary goal rebuilding if I’m going with Barnes/RJ.

How to acquire that player? I don’t see beyond this year where the draft assets look promising to fill that role. Without trading one of RJ or Barnes in the deal there isn’t sufficient trade assets. Would Toronto be willing to sacrifice to get far enough below the cap to sign this third guy? And would that guy be willing to sign in Toronto?

The quickest and -maybe likeliest- path to getting that player is leveraging this years two picks and other assets to move up (unless Toronto is comfortable they will get their man at 19).

No the likeliest path is tank our way to a high pick in a much stronger 2025 draft class. The year end interviews suggested as much, telling us to be patient thst it takes a few yrs to get back into contention/playoffs

Then moving Kelly shouldn’t be an issue? If the tank is on…#bepoop4coop.

SNPA wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

SNPA wrote:Curious…when I look at the Raptors I see -at minimum- the need for a third player as good or better than RJ. That’d be my primary goal rebuilding if I’m going with Barnes/RJ.

How to acquire that player? I don’t see beyond this year where the draft assets look promising to fill that role. Without trading one of RJ or Barnes in the deal there isn’t sufficient trade assets. Would Toronto be willing to sacrifice to get far enough below the cap to sign this third guy? And would that guy be willing to sign in Toronto?

The quickest and -maybe likeliest- path to getting that player is leveraging this years two picks and other assets to move up (unless Toronto is comfortable they will get their man at 19).

No the likeliest path is tank our way to a high pick in a much stronger 2025 draft class. The year end interviews suggested as much, telling us to be patient thst it takes a few yrs to get back into contention/playoffs

Then moving Kelly shouldn’t be an issue? If the tank is on…#bepoop4coop.

Its not an issue for me but some consider him to be a good mentor for the current young players. Shrugs

SNPA wrote:

Tripod wrote:Raps did not trade for, then sign Olynyk just to trade him 2 months later. They want what he brings to the lineup.

Brown will be the one they try and trade in any deal to move up...if they indeed are trying to do that.

Curious…when I look at the Raptors I see -at minimum- the need for a third player as good or better than RJ. That’d be my primary goal rebuilding if I’m going with Barnes/RJ.

How to acquire that player? I don’t see beyond this year where the draft assets look promising to fill that role. Without trading one of RJ or Barnes in the deal there isn’t assets. Would Toronto be willing to sacrifice to get far enough below the cap to sign this third guy? And would that guy be willing to sign in Toronto?

The quickest and -maybe likeliest- path to getting that player is leveraging this years two picks and other assets to move up (unless Toronto is comfortable they will get their man at 19).

Disagree

Quickley could be that 3rd guy.

This draft is all over the map with few guys seen as top 3 options anyways...and certainly not at 13. Hell, the Raps just drafted Gradey in that spot in a much better draft.

As I said, they won't use Olynyk to move up. They will try and use Brown. And then holding that top pick on day 2 I am sure they hope a team loves a guy who has fallen and is willing to pay for it. Or hell, maybe their own guy falls. This draft is about trying to find young playable depth that they can develop.

The have their 1st next year and then 2 1sts in 2026. They have options. I don't see bundling multiple picks and Olynyk to move up in a flat draft. Brown and 19.....for sure.

islandboy53 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Not sure the Knicks are just going to hand you 24 and 25 like that. I mean maybe if they love a guy, but even then you probably owe them some value back. But you certainly can't count on that specific of an opportunity as a reason for not doing something else.

Adding 25 to 24 to move up 6 spots is in the average range historically for that kind of move. I’ll track you down a reference later to confirm that if you want. That said, as was just mentioned, Toronto just traded for and extended Olynyk. He fits what the team is trying to do at this point in the rebuilding phase, so he’s not going anywhere just now. Brown, on the other hand, is going to be moved.

The closest most recent example was in 2019, #20 for #24 + #33.

Normally the team trading up into the top 20 is getting more value, much more in fact. Retrospectively I can only think of the Tatum draft trade as the only example where trading up was a failure. This specific draft 24 & 25 for 19 is probably overpaying. It’s just a very flat draft class.

I don't see Sac trading down for Olynyk. Maybe a trade involving Portland 2nd, but this is just way too much.

wegotthabeet wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Not sure the Knicks are just going to hand you 24 and 25 like that. I mean maybe if they love a guy, but even then you probably owe them some value back. But you certainly can't count on that specific of an opportunity as a reason for not doing something else.

Adding 25 to 24 to move up 6 spots is in the average range historically for that kind of move. I’ll track you down a reference later to confirm that if you want. That said, as was just mentioned, Toronto just traded for and extended Olynyk. He fits what the team is trying to do at this point in the rebuilding phase, so he’s not going anywhere just now. Brown, on the other hand, is going to be moved.

The closest most recent example was in 2019, #20 for #24 + #33.

Normally the team trading up into the top 20 is getting more value, much more in fact. Retrospectively I can only think of the Tatum draft trade as the only example where trading up was a failure. This specific draft 24 & 25 for 19 is probably overpaying. It’s just a very flat draft class.

The closest recent example was 2022, #19 for #22 and #29. Very thorough recent piece of research here https://saltcityhoops.com/picks-on-the-move-23-years-of-draft-trade-precedent/

I think the trade up would be


#19
Bruce Brown


for

Duarte
Mitchell
Vezenko
#13

Saul Goodman wrote:I think the trade up would be


#19
Bruce Brown


for

Duarte
Mitchell
Vezenko
#13

Moving back to lose depth and go from Mitchell to an expiring Brown doesn’t make sense.

Kings, if drafting should diversify. Monte should also be watching Freeman. Vecenie just said he thinks he goes thirties and hears first round talk but not from teams yet.