RealGM

Dallas Out: Tim Hardaway Jr, 2025 TOR 2nd
Dallas In: Gary Trent Jr [S&T, 3/40]

Detroit Out: Cap Space
Detroit In: Tim Hardaway Jr, 2026 and 2027 TOR 2nd

Toronto Out: Gary Trent Jr [S&T, 3/41], 2026 and 2027 TOR 2nd
Toronto In: TPE [~13 Million], 2025 TOR 2nd

Dallas adds a smaller wing who can make above-the-break 3's, isn't a negative defensively and thrives in a lower-usage environment

Detroit takes on THJ for 2 future 2nds

Toronto gets a good 2nd back and generates a TPE for 2 future 2nds

Gary Trent doesn't have the value for Tor to get that pick back.

This is essentially Dallas getting a younger replica of THJ and sacrificing a pick for it

daoneandonly wrote:Gary Trent doesn't have the value for Tor to get that pick back.

Nah, Toronto is sending 2 picks, 2026 and 2027 TOR 2nd.

This is essentially Dallas getting a younger replica of THJ and sacrificing a pick for it

Yeah, younger and better version of THJ. The idea they are identical at this point in their careers is laughable.

I'm not high on GTJ, but I think he is more than serviceable as a 6th/7th man on a high-level team. Asking him to be your 4th best player is when you get into trouble, but Dallas isn't asking him to be that.

This move also is based on the idea Kidd likes Hardy and see's him growing into a 6th man, 3rd ball-handler type. He showed positive flashes throughout the post-season then really struggled against the vaunted Boston defense. If Dallas see's him as filling that hole, then Dallas' moves this off-season are more straight forward [like this deal].

Why is Detroit in this trade? Just cut them out and we can keep the seconds.

Toronto is helping to pay for dallas to dump THJ here which seems strange. I rather let GTJ walk elsewhere than pay a 2nd for a MLE sized TPE we probably wont use (if we go capspace route we wont even get a tpe)

Godaddycurse wrote:Why is Detroit in this trade? Just cut them out and we can keep the seconds.

Toronto is helping to pay for dallas to dump THJ here which seems strange. I rather let GTJ walk elsewhere than pay a 2nd for a MLE sized TPE we probably wont use (if we go capspace route we wont even get a tpe)

This is an odd proposal indeed. 3/41 is basically the NTMLE, so Dallas can simply dump Hardaway to Detroit for the 25 Tor 2nd, then sign Trent to the NTMLE, which will be fully available to them at that point. Or, as you said, send Hardaway and the 2nd to Toronto for Trent, and we'll figure out what to do with Tim. Feels like OP should have the whole thing in green font.

Godaddycurse wrote:Why is Detroit in this trade? Just cut them out and we can keep the seconds.

Toronto is helping to pay for dallas to dump THJ here which seems strange. I rather let GTJ walk elsewhere than pay a 2nd for a MLE sized TPE we probably wont use (if we go capspace route we wont even get a tpe)

Neither DET nor TOR really have any interest in this.

Agree that for TOR, I'd rather let GTJ walk. TOR already has the $10.2M TPE from the Siakam trade, as well as the ability to use the $12.8M NTMLE as a TPE, so ther';s really no benefit to a 3rd TPE around the same amount, let alone giving up an SRP to acquire it.

I had a thread asking what DET could get for pure cap space (under the assumption DET will strike out in FA and have to spend $50M just to get to the salary floor). The least popular ideas were selling cap space for SRPs. DET would only be interested in THJ in Aug after pretty much all other options had passed by.

If DAL has a reasonable exception to use on GTJ, I think it's a reasonable move for them. Season for season, GTJ's best comparison is Reggie Bullock. I think GTJ's best fit would be in a heliocentric attack like Dallas where he just shoots when open and doesn't have the responsibility to dribble or create.

I like GTJ for Dallas as long as they can find a way to bring DJJ back as well. That probably requires moving Green or Kleber.

Not sure Toronto does this deal though. What if they took THJ instead and moved Boucher to Detroit with another Dallas 2nd? Then they're only taking on about $6m to get their 25 2nd rounder back.

Godaddycurse wrote:Why is Detroit in this trade? Just cut them out and we can keep the seconds.

Toronto is helping to pay for dallas to dump THJ here which seems strange. I rather let GTJ walk elsewhere than pay a 2nd for a MLE sized TPE we probably wont use (if we go capspace route we wont even get a tpe)

1) When is Toronto going the "cap space" route?

2) I expect the 2025 2nd to be significantly more valuable than the 2026 and 2027 TOR 2nds.

But yeah, Toronto can cut Detroit out. I figured Toronto, as a cap space team, wanted to generate a TPE AND get their 2nd back for next year.

islandboy53 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Why is Detroit in this trade? Just cut them out and we can keep the seconds.

Toronto is helping to pay for dallas to dump THJ here which seems strange. I rather let GTJ walk elsewhere than pay a 2nd for a MLE sized TPE we probably wont use (if we go capspace route we wont even get a tpe)

This is an odd proposal indeed. 3/41 is basically the NTMLE, so Dallas can simply dump Hardaway to Detroit for the 25 Tor 2nd, then sign Trent to the NTMLE, which will be fully available to them at that point. Or, as you said, send Hardaway and the 2nd to Toronto for Trent, and we'll figure out what to do with Tim. Feels like OP should have the whole thing in green font.

Green font? Come on island boy. I explained the rationale. You can disagree with it, but nothing here is sarcastic.

I value for Toronto, a team I expect to be over the cap, to hold onto an MLE-size TPE into next summer. That, to me, is worth whatever the difference between 2025 2nd and two worse seconds.

But, if you want to just cut Detroit out, just say that. No need to make a small jab about "green font"

I think the days of the Pistons selling off their space cheap and at the beginning of F.A. are over.

jbk1234 wrote:I think the days of the Pistons selling off their space cheap and at the beginning of F.A. are over.

Yeah, they probably want to try to be more competitive. Whether that's the ride move is yet to be seen.

Colbinii wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:I think the days of the Pistons selling off their space cheap and at the beginning of F.A. are over.

Yeah, they probably want to try to be more competitive. Whether that's the ride move is yet to be seen.

I just think that cap space is going to be at a premium with the apron penalties, it should cost more heading into free agency, and Weaver had a habit of selling it cheaply and quickly. They can always do this deal, or one like it, towards the end of summer if they need to get up to the salary floor.

Colbinii wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Why is Detroit in this trade? Just cut them out and we can keep the seconds.

Toronto is helping to pay for dallas to dump THJ here which seems strange. I rather let GTJ walk elsewhere than pay a 2nd for a MLE sized TPE we probably wont use (if we go capspace route we wont even get a tpe)

This is an odd proposal indeed. 3/41 is basically the NTMLE, so Dallas can simply dump Hardaway to Detroit for the 25 Tor 2nd, then sign Trent to the NTMLE, which will be fully available to them at that point. Or, as you said, send Hardaway and the 2nd to Toronto for Trent, and we'll figure out what to do with Tim. Feels like OP should have the whole thing in green font.

Green font? Come on island boy. I explained the rationale. You can disagree with it, but nothing here is sarcastic.

I value for Toronto, a team I expect to be over the cap, to hold onto an MLE-size TPE into next summer. That, to me, is worth whatever the difference between 2025 2nd and two worse seconds.

But, if you want to just cut Detroit out, just say that. No need to make a small jab about "green font"

Ah. I really thought you were kidding with the whole idea. I mean, if you consider it as 2 separate deals combined into 1, Toronto signs and trades Trent to Dallas for THJ and the 25 Tor 2nd. Fair enough. Then, Toronto dumps Hardaway for 2 2nds to create a TPE which may or may not get back something better rather than hold onto him and see if they can get some value from him? Seems unlikely. Regardless, my apologies for the green font comment.

Colbinii wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:I think the days of the Pistons selling off their space cheap and at the beginning of F.A. are over.

Yeah, they probably want to try to be more competitive. Whether that's the ride move is yet to be seen.

I don't know if it is about being competitive

But it has been frustrating to see other GMs like Presti get FRPs, and then see Weaver give away $35-40M in cap space for a couple of seconds and a bloated contract to a scrub, so I sure hope the days of gifting cap space to other teams is over

It is hard to know the selling teams and the timing of that. And if a team wants to try and use it first it makes it tougher to ask a FA like Trent to wait.

But I too think I'd just cut Detroit out here.

I'm not crazy about Trent and think he's more of a liability defensively than the OP does. But at MLE money, and with Dallas needing shooting, can't be too discerning. And Toronto's ability to take back THJ makes him simpler than my preference for a bench shooter in Kennard. So I'd do this as Dallas if nothing better was out there.

I get the reasoning for including Detroit, but this just feels like a Troy Weaver- undervalue the cap space move

Ditto on all the Detroit comments. The second I see a thread title involving Detroit, I immediately ask the question “How little are we getting for our cap space this time?”.

Detroit has $60M+ in cap space. That should bring in 3 quality players. So giving up cap space in this situation is like trading a SRP for Derrick Jones Jr. or Miles Bridges. I know it’s convenient for these lopsided trades, but that’s just not happening.

theBigLip wrote:Ditto on all the Detroit comments. The second I see a thread title involving Detroit, I immediately ask the question “How little are we getting for our cap space this time?”.

Detroit has $60M+ in cap space. That should bring in 3 quality players. So giving up cap space in this situation is like trading a SRP for Derrick Jones Jr. or Miles Bridges. I know it’s convenient for these lopsided trades, but that’s just not happening.

Oh Detroit is going to be fascinating for sure. I think this year offers better opportunity in taking on salary for assets than it does in signing free agents.

I mean look at the proposed guys in that other thread. Not sure I'd rather sign them than take back Collins and get an asset, take back THJ and get an asset, take on Barnes for an asset, etc... I think you get roughly a similar caliber player with a shorter commitment and get an asset.

Now I don't think Detroit should sell cheap. Or sell early unless a team is making it worth their while. But I would definitely pinpoint 3 or 4 free agent targets, make an aggressive but not stupid offer(Don't give Derrick Jones $100M for instance. ) and if they all sign, okay cool. But if not, I'd be selling.

I think the need for 3rd teams creates opportunity. And I'd want to take advantage more than I'd want to sign C and D level free agents and win 28 games.

Texas Chuck wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Ditto on all the Detroit comments. The second I see a thread title involving Detroit, I immediately ask the question “How little are we getting for our cap space this time?”.

Detroit has $60M+ in cap space. That should bring in 3 quality players. So giving up cap space in this situation is like trading a SRP for Derrick Jones Jr. or Miles Bridges. I know it’s convenient for these lopsided trades, but that’s just not happening.

Oh Detroit is going to be fascinating for sure. I think this year offers better opportunity in taking on salary for assets than it does in signing free agents.

I mean look at the proposed guys in that other thread. Not sure I'd rather sign them than take back Collins and get an asset, take back THJ and get an asset, take on Barnes for an asset, etc... I think you get roughly a similar caliber player with a shorter commitment and get an asset.

Now I don't think Detroit should sell cheap. Or sell early unless a team is making it worth their while. But I would definitely pinpoint 3 or 4 free agent targets, make an aggressive but not stupid offer(Don't give Derrick Jones $100M for instance. ) and if they all sign, okay cool. But if not, I'd be selling.

I think the need for 3rd teams creates opportunity. And I'd want to take advantage more than I'd want to sign C and D level free agents and win 28 games.

Agreed. It will take some patience and restraint, but if Detroit can wait until after the flurry of moves the first few days, they will increase their leverage. Timing is going to be very interesting this offseason.

Texas Chuck wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Ditto on all the Detroit comments. The second I see a thread title involving Detroit, I immediately ask the question “How little are we getting for our cap space this time?”.

Detroit has $60M+ in cap space. That should bring in 3 quality players. So giving up cap space in this situation is like trading a SRP for Derrick Jones Jr. or Miles Bridges. I know it’s convenient for these lopsided trades, but that’s just not happening.

Oh Detroit is going to be fascinating for sure. I think this year offers better opportunity in taking on salary for assets than it does in signing free agents.

I mean look at the proposed guys in that other thread. Not sure I'd rather sign them than take back Collins and get an asset, take back THJ and get an asset, take on Barnes for an asset, etc... I think you get roughly a similar caliber player with a shorter commitment and get an asset.

Now I don't think Detroit should sell cheap. Or sell early unless a team is making it worth their while. But I would definitely pinpoint 3 or 4 free agent targets, make an aggressive but not stupid offer(Don't give Derrick Jones $100M for instance. ) and if they all sign, okay cool. But if not, I'd be selling.

I think the need for 3rd teams creates opportunity. And I'd want to take advantage more than I'd want to sign C and D level free agents and win 28 games.

Great post. There will be teams that really need to move on things - if Langdon can wait patiently (unlike Weaver), he should be able to squeeze some firsts out of these teams.