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Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:12 pm
by Balkman32
If a team gets hard capped - is that hard cap number at the 1st or 2nd apron amount?
Or is the hard cap a different number?
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:17 pm
by Scoot McGroot
Balkman32 wrote:If a team gets hard capped - is that hard cap number at the 1st or 2nd apron amount?
Or is the hard cap a different number?
There are hard caps incurred at either the first apron or the second apron. Basically, if a team takes part in a transaction that would be forbidden to them above the first or second apron, they’re hard capped there to prevent them from exceeding the respective apron level.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:38 pm
by Balkman32
Scoot McGroot wrote:Balkman32 wrote:If a team gets hard capped - is that hard cap number at the 1st or 2nd apron amount?
Or is the hard cap a different number?
There are hard caps incurred at either the first apron or the second apron. Basically, if a team takes part in a transaction that would be forbidden to them above the first or second apron, they’re hard capped there to prevent them from exceeding the respective apron level.
So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:47 pm
by Lenneth
Balkman32 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:Balkman32 wrote:If a team gets hard capped - is that hard cap number at the 1st or 2nd apron amount?
Or is the hard cap a different number?
There are hard caps incurred at either the first apron or the second apron. Basically, if a team takes part in a transaction that would be forbidden to them above the first or second apron, they’re hard capped there to prevent them from exceeding the respective apron level.
So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:08 pm
by Texas Chuck
Balkman32 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:Balkman32 wrote:If a team gets hard capped - is that hard cap number at the 1st or 2nd apron amount?
Or is the hard cap a different number?
There are hard caps incurred at either the first apron or the second apron. Basically, if a team takes part in a transaction that would be forbidden to them above the first or second apron, they’re hard capped there to prevent them from exceeding the respective apron level.
So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
They are not. Using the full MLE, engaging in a S&T, taking back more than 100% of outgoing salary if over the cap, are all things that will trigger the first apron. OKC did none of those so no hard cap atm.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:12 pm
by Richard4444
Lenneth wrote:Balkman32 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:
There are hard caps incurred at either the first apron or the second apron. Basically, if a team takes part in a transaction that would be forbidden to them above the first or second apron, they’re hard capped there to prevent them from exceeding the respective apron level.
So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:14 pm
by Texas Chuck
Richard4444 wrote:Lenneth wrote:Balkman32 wrote:
So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Trade won't happen until next calendar year and OKC will almost certainly operate under the cap. You can always take back salary into cap space without it hard capping you.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:17 pm
by Colbinii
Richard4444 wrote:Lenneth wrote:Balkman32 wrote:
So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Nah, this trade will happen next season.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:19 pm
by Richard4444
Texas Chuck wrote:Richard4444 wrote:Lenneth wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Trade won't happen until next calendar year and OKC will almost certainly operate under the cap. You can always take back salary into cap space without it hard capping you.
You are right. This new rule only applies to over-the-cap teams. Assuming the Thunder will process the trade before hitting the salary cap, they can absorb the salary into cap space.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:38 pm
by giberish
Of course it's rare for a team to operate under the cap in the beginning of FA and then come anywhere close to the 1st apron in that league year. Really the only way it could happen is if the team has several players with small cap holds that are then resigned to large contracts. That doesn't really apply to OKC next season so being hard-capped or not will be completely irrelevant for them.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:43 pm
by Balkman32
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:46 pm
by Syko_boB
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Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:55 pm
by Scoot McGroot
Colbinii wrote:Richard4444 wrote:Lenneth wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Nah, this trade will happen next season.
Hasn’t it already been processed? It’s on the league transaction wire on June 21.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:56 pm
by Balkman32
So the rule is more of a recommendation because you can break them - but they just hard cap you.
I feel like this will really limit player movement and/or lead to some really weird trades.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:02 pm
by Scoot McGroot
Balkman32 wrote:So the rule is more of a recommendation because you can break them - but they just hard cap you.
Not really. If you incur a hard cap, you cannot cross that hard cap for any reason, even injury replacements or whatnot. OKC took back kore salary in trade than they sent out, which is forbidden for teams over the first apron, so they will be forbidden for this upcoming season from going over the first apron. The league specifically defined that this stands for any transaction that happens after the day after the regular season ends.
I feel like this will really limit player movement and/or lead to some really weird trades.
Could. But teams are pretty smart and will work inside the parameters. In this case, I would imagine that okc did the deal being fine with being hard capped at the first apron, which is about $7.3m above the tax line this next season.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:11 pm
by giberish
Scoot McGroot wrote:Balkman32 wrote:
I feel like this will really limit player movement and/or lead to some really weird trades.
Could. But teams are pretty smart and will work inside the parameters. In this case, I would imagine that okc did the deal being fine with being hard capped at the first apron, which is about $7.3m above the tax line this next season.
There's also a large gap between the cap and the tax line. There's really no way for OKC to get anywhere close to the apron this/next season. Making the hard cap completely irrelevant to them.
Many teams are in such a position and really won't care about being hard-capped for the season.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:30 pm
by Richard4444
Scoot McGroot wrote:Balkman32 wrote:So the rule is more of a recommendation because you can break them - but they just hard cap you.
Not really. If you incur a hard cap, you cannot cross that hard cap for any reason, even injury replacements or whatnot. OKC took back kore salary in trade than they sent out, which is forbidden for teams over the first apron, so they will be forbidden for this upcoming season from going over the first apron. The league specifically defined that this stands for any transaction that happens after the day after the regular season ends.
I feel like this will really limit player movement and/or lead to some really weird trades.
Could. But teams are pretty smart and will work inside the parameters. In this case, I would imagine that okc did the deal being fine with being hard capped at the first apron, which is about $7.3m above the tax line this next season.
Is there no exception that can cross the hard cap line? Even an unlikely bonus? Do you have to compute the real salary of vet minimum guys?
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:45 pm
by docholliday99
Balkman32 wrote:So the Thunder are hard capped at the first apron $178 since they took on Caruso, while they were under the cap?
They're only hard capped because they made a trade that's considered an illegal trade if they were over the 1st apron, however, I wouldn't worry so much about being hard capped. Even after the Caruso trade, OKC has 12 players with an active cap of 103.5m, 1m of dead money and a #12 draft pick hit of 4.95m, that's only 109.45m. THAT is a lot of money between that number and the cap of 141 and the apron hard cap of 178.6m. OKC holding on to the rights of Hayward is what's keeping the team over the cap and access to the MLE and BAE.
OKC is in a great position to go in any direction - keep Hayward and operate above the cap or renounce his rights and actually use cap space. Trading Giddey removed next years issue of his contract bump, as OKC has the max extensions of Chet and Jalen coming.
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:57 pm
by Andre Roberstan
Texas Chuck wrote:Richard4444 wrote:Lenneth wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thunder is hard-capped. It's triggered when the team does sign-and-trade, signs a player using a non-taxpayer MLE or bi-annual exception.
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Trade won't happen until next calendar year and OKC will almost certainly operate under the cap. You can always take back salary into cap space without it hard capping you.
Love you Chuck, but that's incorrect. I ran this by Smitty already, and Pincus talked about it too. New rules. We're still all trying to figure them out too.
Granted, for OKC the hard cap is pretty much irrelevant, but ...
Re: Hard Cap
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 12:00 am
by Texas Chuck
Andre Roberstan wrote:Texas Chuck wrote:Richard4444 wrote:
They appear to be hard-capped. They got more money in the trade (Caruso earns 9,8M while Giddey gets 8,3M).
Trade won't happen until next calendar year and OKC will almost certainly operate under the cap. You can always take back salary into cap space without it hard capping you.
Love you Chuck, but that's incorrect. I ran this by Smitty already, and Pincus talked about it too. New rules. We're still all trying to figure them out too.
Granted, for OKC the hard cap is pretty much irrelevant, but ...
I knew better than to speak up lol. I also thought they were holding the trade off until July but I had that wrong too.
No more CBA answers from me.