RealGM

Given the Jazz and Raptors selected frontcourt and wing pieces respectively in the draft, I’ll offer this deal straight up for greater positional roster balance

To Toronto
-John Collins (1 year, $26.6 million plus P.O.)

To Utah
-Bruce Brown (1 year, $23 million)

Why?
-The Raps appear likely to not resign GTJ and need greater frontcourt scoring as John Collins can start at the 4. They have depth at the wing now given they drafted Walter

Quickley/FA?/Liberty
Barrett/Dick/Walter
Barnes/Agbaji/Nwora?
Collins/Olynyk/McDaniels
Poeltl/Boucher/#31?

-The Jazz gain a veteran SG/SF who could potentially start as they can give more minutes to Hendricks at the 4 in year 2.

Sexton/Dunn?/Collier
Clarkson/George/Patterson
Brown/Sensabaugh/#32?
Markannen/Hendricks/FA?
Kessler/Yurtseven/FA?

I've got Collins as negative -- and more negative than Brown because of the PO

Toronto would be far better off just declining Brown's TO

Collins suck next to a traditional C.

As a Jazz fan I couldn't agree to this fast enough, which shows this isn't balanced. I'd be willing to add the #32 pick to this.

What balances a Wiggins to Tor Collins to GS addition

Brown is more valuable by a significant margin. Don’t get the group think around here that he has negative value.

jredsaz wrote:Brown is more valuable by a significant margin. Don’t get the group think around here that he has negative value.

I'm a long time Brown fan, going back to his 2 seasons with Detroit.

I think Brown is worth around the NTMLE, give or take. But his TO is for $23M -- and that's just too much to pay for a bench contributor

oldncreaky wrote:

jredsaz wrote:Brown is more valuable by a significant margin. Don’t get the group think around here that he has negative value.

I'm a long time Brown fan, going back to his 2 seasons with Detroit.

I think Brown is worth around the NTMLE, give or take. But his TO is for $23M -- and that's just too much to pay for a bench contributor

Why? It’s for one year. Browns a proven championship piece. With early bird rights teams can sign him to a long term contract more in line with his role/skills. Denver should be all over getting Brown back if KCP gets the kind of contract he will reportedly be offered.

jredsaz wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:

jredsaz wrote:Brown is more valuable by a significant margin. Don’t get the group think around here that he has negative value.

I'm a long time Brown fan, going back to his 2 seasons with Detroit.

I think Brown is worth around the NTMLE, give or take. But his TO is for $23M -- and that's just too much to pay for a bench contributor

Why? It’s for one year. Browns a proven championship piece. With early bird rights teams can sign him to a long term contract more in line with his role/skills. Denver should be all over getting Brown back if KCP gets the kind of contract he will reportedly be offered.

The only path for Denver to do that, and retain their core four, is a sign and trade with Toronto in as a 3rd team. Denver signs KCP to at least $23 million and trades him to Dallas, who are reported as being interested. Toronto sends Brown to Denver, and gets whatever Dallas is offering, with THJ being presumably the main salary piece. Aside from that seems like a lot for KCP, Denver is then hard capped at the 2nd apron, with a team salary that exceeds it by about $7 million.

Warriorfan wrote:What balances a Wiggins to Tor Collins to GS addition

I don't think it can be fairly balanced. Toronto is better off just declining Brown's option.

islandboy53 wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:
I'm a long time Brown fan, going back to his 2 seasons with Detroit.

I think Brown is worth around the NTMLE, give or take. But his TO is for $23M -- and that's just too much to pay for a bench contributor

Why? It’s for one year. Browns a proven championship piece. With early bird rights teams can sign him to a long term contract more in line with his role/skills. Denver should be all over getting Brown back if KCP gets the kind of contract he will reportedly be offered.

The only path for Denver to do that, and retain their core four, is a sign and trade with Toronto in as a 3rd team. Denver signs KCP to at least $23 million and trades him to Dallas, who are reported as being interested. Toronto sends Brown to Denver, and gets whatever Dallas is offering, with THJ being presumably the main salary piece. Aside from that seems like a lot for KCP, Denver is then hard capped at the 2nd apron, with a team salary that exceeds it by about $7 million.

This

The restrictions in the CBA make trading for a player like Brown difficult if not impossible for the teams most likely to want him. For a contender or near contender, Bruce Brown makes a ton of sense in the line-up and on the bench, but at $23M, he does not make sense on the cap sheet of those same teams.

The only way that Denver is getting Brown is if they somehow move off MPJ's contract

I looked up the advanced stats of Brown to try and understand why he's being overrated in this post and found there is zero reason to say he's worth anymore than Collins. If anything the Stats favor Collins.

WinterSoldier wrote:I looked up the advanced stats of Brown to try and understand why he's being overrated in this post and found there is zero reason to say he's worth anymore than Collins. If anything the Stats favor Collins.

Well if basketball were a game of just stats I’d agree. I’ve seen Brown be an important piece on a championship team. Haven’t seen Collins be important to anything in the NBA for a long time. His contract is another reason why I view him as more valuable.

oldncreaky wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:

jredsaz wrote:
Why? It’s for one year. Browns a proven championship piece. With early bird rights teams can sign him to a long term contract more in line with his role/skills. Denver should be all over getting Brown back if KCP gets the kind of contract he will reportedly be offered.

The only path for Denver to do that, and retain their core four, is a sign and trade with Toronto in as a 3rd team. Denver signs KCP to at least $23 million and trades him to Dallas, who are reported as being interested. Toronto sends Brown to Denver, and gets whatever Dallas is offering, with THJ being presumably the main salary piece. Aside from that seems like a lot for KCP, Denver is then hard capped at the 2nd apron, with a team salary that exceeds it by about $7 million.

This

The restrictions in the CBA make trading for a player like Brown difficult if not impossible for the teams most likely to want him. For a contender or near contender, Bruce Brown makes a ton of sense in the line-up and on the bench, but at $23M, he does not make sense on the cap sheet of those same teams.

The only way that Denver is getting Brown is if they somehow move off MPJ's contract

It’s hardly impossible. If KCP gets a $23M+ per year contract, the Nuggets need to try and make that a S&T. These kind of deals have happened in the past. If not, and KCP still leaves I’d expect the Nuggets to still try to facilitate a S&T, just for a different player.

Brown has value. There is a reason Toronto just picked up his option. I mean Woj just said it

[x]?s=46&t=FUyyhjewGjn9PpKelv4Wgg[/x]

jredsaz wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:

islandboy53 wrote:
The only path for Denver to do that, and retain their core four, is a sign and trade with Toronto in as a 3rd team. Denver signs KCP to at least $23 million and trades him to Dallas, who are reported as being interested. Toronto sends Brown to Denver, and gets whatever Dallas is offering, with THJ being presumably the main salary piece. Aside from that seems like a lot for KCP, Denver is then hard capped at the 2nd apron, with a team salary that exceeds it by about $7 million.

This

The restrictions in the CBA make trading for a player like Brown difficult if not impossible for the teams most likely to want him. For a contender or near contender, Bruce Brown makes a ton of sense in the line-up and on the bench, but at $23M, he does not make sense on the cap sheet of those same teams.

The only way that Denver is getting Brown is if they somehow move off MPJ's contract

It’s hardly impossible. If KCP gets a $23M+ per year contract, the Nuggets need to try and make that a S&T. These kind of deals have happened in the past. If not, and KCP still leaves I’d expect the Nuggets to still try to facilitate a S&T, just for a different player.

Brown has value. There is a reason Toronto just picked up his option. I mean Woj just said it

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=FUyyhjewGjn9PpKelv4Wgg[/x]

Denver would be hard-capped at the second apron if they S&T Caldwell-Pope anywhere. Their options are essentially only keep him or let him walk.

gswhoops wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:
This

The restrictions in the CBA make trading for a player like Brown difficult if not impossible for the teams most likely to want him. For a contender or near contender, Bruce Brown makes a ton of sense in the line-up and on the bench, but at $23M, he does not make sense on the cap sheet of those same teams.

The only way that Denver is getting Brown is if they somehow move off MPJ's contract

It’s hardly impossible. If KCP gets a $23M+ per year contract, the Nuggets need to try and make that a S&T. These kind of deals have happened in the past. If not, and KCP still leaves I’d expect the Nuggets to still try to facilitate a S&T, just for a different player.

Brown has value. There is a reason Toronto just picked up his option. I mean Woj just said it

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=FUyyhjewGjn9PpKelv4Wgg[/x]

Denver would be hard-capped at the second apron if they S&T Caldwell-Pope anywhere. Their options are essentially only keep him or let him walk.

As I understand it teams are allowed to S&T a player but they can’t receive a S&T player back and still exceed the 2nd apron.

gswhoops wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

oldncreaky wrote:
This

The restrictions in the CBA make trading for a player like Brown difficult if not impossible for the teams most likely to want him. For a contender or near contender, Bruce Brown makes a ton of sense in the line-up and on the bench, but at $23M, he does not make sense on the cap sheet of those same teams.

The only way that Denver is getting Brown is if they somehow move off MPJ's contract

It’s hardly impossible. If KCP gets a $23M+ per year contract, the Nuggets need to try and make that a S&T. These kind of deals have happened in the past. If not, and KCP still leaves I’d expect the Nuggets to still try to facilitate a S&T, just for a different player.

Brown has value. There is a reason Toronto just picked up his option. I mean Woj just said it

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=FUyyhjewGjn9PpKelv4Wgg[/x]

Denver would be hard-capped at the second apron if they S&T Caldwell-Pope anywhere. Their options are essentially only keep him or let him walk.

Here:
https://www.si.com/nba/nuggets-unwilling-to-aid-kentavious-caldwell-pope-sign-and-trade-to-mavericks-per-report#:~:text=Per%20veteran%20NBA%20insider%20Marc,and-trade%20to%20facilitate%20it.

jredsaz wrote:

gswhoops wrote:

jredsaz wrote:
It’s hardly impossible. If KCP gets a $23M+ per year contract, the Nuggets need to try and make that a S&T. These kind of deals have happened in the past. If not, and KCP still leaves I’d expect the Nuggets to still try to facilitate a S&T, just for a different player.

Brown has value. There is a reason Toronto just picked up his option. I mean Woj just said it

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=FUyyhjewGjn9PpKelv4Wgg[/x]

Denver would be hard-capped at the second apron if they S&T Caldwell-Pope anywhere. Their options are essentially only keep him or let him walk.

As I understand it teams are allowed to S&T a player but they can’t receive a S&T player back and still exceed the 2nd apron.

Receiving a S&T'ed player hard caps you at the first apron, sending a S&T player hard caps you at the second

gswhoops wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

gswhoops wrote:Denver would be hard-capped at the second apron if they S&T Caldwell-Pope anywhere. Their options are essentially only keep him or let him walk.

As I understand it teams are allowed to S&T a player but they can’t receive a S&T player back and still exceed the 2nd apron.

Receiving a S&T'ed player hard caps you at the first apron, sending a S&T player hard caps you at the second

I haven’t seen that anywhere. If you have that on a published cheat sheet or can better explain how please do.

gswhoops wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

gswhoops wrote:Denver would be hard-capped at the second apron if they S&T Caldwell-Pope anywhere. Their options are essentially only keep him or let him walk.

As I understand it teams are allowed to S&T a player but they can’t receive a S&T player back and still exceed the 2nd apron.

Receiving a S&T'ed player hard caps you at the first apron, sending a S&T player hard caps you at the second

Look man Bobby Marks and ChatGPT are telling me you’re wrong but I’m not at all an expert on these new apron rules. Just trying to learn.