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But it needs to be a third team because I don’t think NOP is willing to start the tax clock this season?

Feel like Atlanta owes NOP one of their firsts back here. But maybe only a swap or? Know I am higher on some of these names than others..


Atlanta: Hunter, Fernando, Mathews (or really any two of the deep bench vet mins - or Kobe?)
Atlanta: Middleton

Atlanta gets the better player. Jalen/Zac are the future, so they don’t mind the shorter window of Middleton. They Will have to deal one of Capela/Nance to trim the 6~ million to get back under the tax but that should not be too difficult as there are teams that should still want them if it’s a salary dump, mean even a team that hasn’t used their MLE yet just taking Nance (or most of him..) easy work..

NOP: Ingram
NOP: Hunter and Portis

NOP adds a big that can start this season and a decent rotation forward. Think they are owed more value but going to let others tell me? This feels about a first short to me, and doesn’t work with Lopez in place of Portis unless NOP is willing to go over the tax.

Milwaukee: Middleton and Portis
Milwaukee: Ingram, Fernando, and Mathews.

Milwaukee gets a younger secondary star next to G. Ingram should look great playing third behind Dame and G, and help keep offense going in other minutes.. Ingram agrees to his max extension/trade as part of the deal.. Milwaukee saves enough to stay under the second apron.

Milwaukee is 4.4M over the 2nd apron. This saves them about 3M which is not enough i think? They need to send out a bit more salary

Godaddycurse wrote:Milwaukee is 4.4M over the 2nd apron. This saves them about 3M which is not enough i think? They need to send out a bit more salary

I’m guessing 4.4 over has to include Middleton’s 2.3 unlikely incentives, which is being sent out here?

Don’t see any dead cap or anything.

jayjaysee wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Milwaukee is 4.4M over the 2nd apron. This saves them about 3M which is not enough i think? They need to send out a bit more salary

I’m guessing 4.4 over has to include Middleton’s 2.3 unlikely incentives, which is being sent out here?

Don’t see any dead cap or anything.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/cap/_/year/2024

Dont think it includes his incentives... Or maybe it does? Regardless they can just send out another min salary i guess.

I dont think atlanta is the right 3rd team here. Think middleton is too old for them.

Godaddycurse wrote:Milwaukee is 4.4M over the 2nd apron. This saves them about 3M which is not enough i think? They need to send out a bit more salary

Maybe Milwaukee sends AJ Johnson to New Orleans and Matthew to a 3rd team?

Godaddycurse wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Milwaukee is 4.4M over the 2nd apron. This saves them about 3M which is not enough i think? They need to send out a bit more salary

I’m guessing 4.4 over has to include Middleton’s 2.3 unlikely incentives, which is being sent out here?

Don’t see any dead cap or anything.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/cap/_/year/2024

Dont think it includes his incentives.

What do you think it is though? That link says “active cap - 189.852”

I mean if the only hold up is dump Fernando - that seems pretty easy. NOP could use another big body

But I think it’s legal as is

Godaddycurse wrote:
I dont think atlanta is the right 3rd team here. Think middleton is too old for them.

I wasn’t sure if Atlanta was the right third team or not, but I disagree about Midds being a bad fit/too old. He’s a great (pretty perfect actually) wing stopgap while Zac develops into Jalen’s long term partner.

jayjaysee wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:
I dont think atlanta is the right 3rd team here. Think middleton is too old for them.

I wasn’t sure if Atlanta was the right third team or not, but I disagree about Midds being a bad fit/too old. He’s a great (pretty perfect actually) wing stopgap while Zac develops into Jalen’s long term partner.

I dont think a team like Atlanta who isn't likely to even make it past the play in/1st round should spend a pick on an aging vet/stopgap who is expiring/has a PO. He doesn't raise their ceiling at all

Godaddycurse wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:
I dont think atlanta is the right 3rd team here. Think middleton is too old for them.

I wasn’t sure if Atlanta was the right third team or not, but I disagree about Midds being a bad fit/too old. He’s a great (pretty perfect actually) wing stopgap while Zac develops into Jalen’s long term partner.

I dont think a team like Atlanta who isn't likely to even make it past the play in/1st round should spend a pick on an aging vet/stopgap who is expiring/has a PO. He doesn't raise their ceiling at all

Yeah, me and you have disagreed about the importance of a mid first for Atlanta. And Atlanta seems to be siding with you in real life..

Just seems like a mid first shouldn’t be too big a price for a team that talks like they have at least four of they long term starters (Trae, Dyson, Zac, Jalen) locked up..

Most seem to look at Atlanta like it’s year one of a rebuild, but I look at Atlanta like a young team with their future core locked up that has proven to win some last year and got really lucky with lottery.. those teams trade to improve the roster

jayjaysee wrote:
Just seems like a mid first shouldn’t be too big a price for a team that talks like they have at least four of they long term starters (Trae, Dyson, Zac, Jalen) locked up..

Most seem to look at Atlanta like it’s year one of a rebuild, but I look at Atlanta like a young team with their future core locked up that has proven to win some last year and got really lucky with lottery.. those teams trade to improve the roster

Thats fine and understandable, but Middleton has 1-2 yrs of good play left imo, so by the time that young core is ready to win Middleton is already aged past his prime. End of the day its just a waste of a pick. I think Atlanta will still make play-in without Middleton

Godaddycurse wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:
Just seems like a mid first shouldn’t be too big a price for a team that talks like they have at least four of they long term starters (Trae, Dyson, Zac, Jalen) locked up..

Most seem to look at Atlanta like it’s year one of a rebuild, but I look at Atlanta like a young team with their future core locked up that has proven to win some last year and got really lucky with lottery.. those teams trade to improve the roster

Thats fine and understandable, but Middleton has 1-2 yrs of good play left imo, so by the time that young core is ready to win Middleton is already aged past his prime. End of the day its just a waste of a pick. I think Atlanta will still make play-in without Middleton

As a Bucks fan, I'm not wanting to trade him for for a few quarters. His game isn't dependent on athleticism and should age well. He's a smart player who uses his length and positioning to stay in front of more athletic players on defense.

When to factor in his contract ($31.6MM), he provides more value than PG13 ($48.8MM) who is 2 years older and has missed more time than Khris over the last 5 years. Again, I know he's had his fair share of injuries the last few seasons, but he's still a very good player who can create for himself and his teammates on offense and always seems to perform better in the playoffs.

bdpecore wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:
Just seems like a mid first shouldn’t be too big a price for a team that talks like they have at least four of they long term starters (Trae, Dyson, Zac, Jalen) locked up..

Most seem to look at Atlanta like it’s year one of a rebuild, but I look at Atlanta like a young team with their future core locked up that has proven to win some last year and got really lucky with lottery.. those teams trade to improve the roster

Thats fine and understandable, but Middleton has 1-2 yrs of good play left imo, so by the time that young core is ready to win Middleton is already aged past his prime. End of the day its just a waste of a pick. I think Atlanta will still make play-in without Middleton

As a Bucks fan, I'm not wanting to trade him for for a few quarters. His game isn't dependent on athleticism and should age well. He's a smart player who uses his length and positioning to stay in front of more athletic players on defense.

When to factor in his contract ($31.6MM), he provides more value than PG13 ($48.8MM) who is 2 years older and has missed more time than Khris over the last 5 years. Again, I know he's had his fair share of injuries the last few seasons, but he's still a very good player who can create for himself and his teammates on offense and always seems to perform better in the playoffs.

I don’t think Ingram is quarters though for Milwaukee? Do you think Milwaukee does the OP?

But I wouldn’t compare Midds to PG personally.

I do think Midds 1-2 more years of really good starter play (when healthy) and then 2-3 years of strong rotation guy is probably realistic?

But that’s pretty perfect for Atlanta as Zac gets to develop and then Midds gets to ideally slide behind Zac/Dyson?

Maybe there is a better third team for Midds though, I just picked Atlanta as I think they should build around their current group, keep the LAL pick and their future picks and be set to add a piece next offseason if they decide to push in.. obviously depends on OO/Jalen/Dyson developing and Zac not being a bust.. But paying a first to help those young guys feels worth it.

jayjaysee wrote:

bdpecore wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:
Thats fine and understandable, but Middleton has 1-2 yrs of good play left imo, so by the time that young core is ready to win Middleton is already aged past his prime. End of the day its just a waste of a pick. I think Atlanta will still make play-in without Middleton

As a Bucks fan, I'm not wanting to trade him for for a few quarters. His game isn't dependent on athleticism and should age well. He's a smart player who uses his length and positioning to stay in front of more athletic players on defense.

When to factor in his contract ($31.6MM), he provides more value than PG13 ($48.8MM) who is 2 years older and has missed more time than Khris over the last 5 years. Again, I know he's had his fair share of injuries the last few seasons, but he's still a very good player who can create for himself and his teammates on offense and always seems to perform better in the playoffs.

I don’t think Ingram is quarters though for Milwaukee? Do you think Milwaukee does the OP?

But I wouldn’t compare Midds to PG personally.

I do think Midds 1-2 more years of really good starter play (when healthy) and then 2-3 years of strong rotation guy is probably realistic?

But that’s pretty perfect for Atlanta as Zac gets to develop and then Midds gets to ideally slide behind Zac/Dyson?

Maybe there is a better third team for Midds though, I just picked Atlanta as I think they should build around their current group, keep the LAL pick and their future picks and be set to add a piece next offseason if they decide to push in.. obviously depends on OO/Jalen/Dyson developing and Zac not being a bust.. But paying a first to help those young guys feels worth it.

You are correct this deal is more like a 75 cent piece and two nickels than three quarters. but i do think when healthy, Middleton is a better player and fit next to Giannis and Dame than Ingram. This trade would be dependent on Horst belief that extending the Bucks window is worth more than fielding a better overall team this season. If it were me, I'd stick with Khris and Bobby as Dame isn't getting any younger either and hope all three are healthy when the playoffs start since they give Milwaukee's best chance to beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.

I agree Middleton likely has two more years of being a really good starter and 2-3 years in a 6th man role. Fit wise Khris would be ideal for Atlanta but I'm not convinced their front office knows how to or believes they can build a championship caliber roster around Trae.

bdpecore wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

bdpecore wrote:As a Bucks fan, I'm not wanting to trade him for for a few quarters. His game isn't dependent on athleticism and should age well. He's a smart player who uses his length and positioning to stay in front of more athletic players on defense.

When to factor in his contract ($31.6MM), he provides more value than PG13 ($48.8MM) who is 2 years older and has missed more time than Khris over the last 5 years. Again, I know he's had his fair share of injuries the last few seasons, but he's still a very good player who can create for himself and his teammates on offense and always seems to perform better in the playoffs.

I don’t think Ingram is quarters though for Milwaukee? Do you think Milwaukee does the OP?

But I wouldn’t compare Midds to PG personally.

I do think Midds 1-2 more years of really good starter play (when healthy) and then 2-3 years of strong rotation guy is probably realistic?

But that’s pretty perfect for Atlanta as Zac gets to develop and then Midds gets to ideally slide behind Zac/Dyson?

Maybe there is a better third team for Midds though, I just picked Atlanta as I think they should build around their current group, keep the LAL pick and their future picks and be set to add a piece next offseason if they decide to push in.. obviously depends on OO/Jalen/Dyson developing and Zac not being a bust.. But paying a first to help those young guys feels worth it.

You are correct this deal is more like a 75 cent piece and two nickels than three quarters. but i do think when healthy, Middleton is a better player and fit next to Giannis and Dame than Ingram. This trade would be dependent on Horst belief that extending the Bucks window is worth more than fielding a better overall team this season. If it were me, I'd stick with Khris and Bobby as Dame isn't getting any younger either and hope all three are healthy when the playoffs start since they give Milwaukee's best chance to beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.

I agree Middleton likely has two more years of being a really good starter and 2-3 years in a 6th man role. Fit wise Khris would be ideal for Atlanta but I'm not convinced their front office knows how to or believes they can build a championship caliber roster around Trae.

Think we agree about my entire bad idea.

Definitely would be one step back this season if Midds is his best self in playoffs. Portis is important and not replaced here. But would be locking up someone that won’t decline in 2 years.

And Atlanta part we agree about.

jayjaysee wrote:

bdpecore wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:
I don’t think Ingram is quarters though for Milwaukee? Do you think Milwaukee does the OP?

But I wouldn’t compare Midds to PG personally.

I do think Midds 1-2 more years of really good starter play (when healthy) and then 2-3 years of strong rotation guy is probably realistic?

But that’s pretty perfect for Atlanta as Zac gets to develop and then Midds gets to ideally slide behind Zac/Dyson?

Maybe there is a better third team for Midds though, I just picked Atlanta as I think they should build around their current group, keep the LAL pick and their future picks and be set to add a piece next offseason if they decide to push in.. obviously depends on OO/Jalen/Dyson developing and Zac not being a bust.. But paying a first to help those young guys feels worth it.

You are correct this deal is more like a 75 cent piece and two nickels than three quarters. but i do think when healthy, Middleton is a better player and fit next to Giannis and Dame than Ingram. This trade would be dependent on Horst belief that extending the Bucks window is worth more than fielding a better overall team this season. If it were me, I'd stick with Khris and Bobby as Dame isn't getting any younger either and hope all three are healthy when the playoffs start since they give Milwaukee's best chance to beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.

I agree Middleton likely has two more years of being a really good starter and 2-3 years in a 6th man role. Fit wise Khris would be ideal for Atlanta but I'm not convinced their front office knows how to or believes they can build a championship caliber roster around Trae.

Think we agree about my entire bad idea.

Definitely would be one step back this season if Midds is his best self in playoffs. Portis is important and not replaced here. But would be locking up someone that won’t decline in 2 years.

And Atlanta part we agree about.

Bucks are in a tough spot where their #2 and #3 options are both getting older but they have already used up most of their available assets to get Holiday and Dame. Based on this, I think Horst has done a good job adding complimentary role players like Prince and Wright on vet min deals. Not sure what else he can do to improve this roster short of sending out Connaughton and their 2031 1st for a another SG who could potentially start next to Dame.

Godaddycurse wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:
I dont think atlanta is the right 3rd team here. Think middleton is too old for them.

I wasn’t sure if Atlanta was the right third team or not, but I disagree about Midds being a bad fit/too old. He’s a great (pretty perfect actually) wing stopgap while Zac develops into Jalen’s long term partner.

I dont think a team like Atlanta who isn't likely to even make it past the play in/1st round should spend a pick on an aging vet/stopgap who is expiring/has a PO. He doesn't raise their ceiling at all

Atlanta is currently $1.6 mil under the tax. Middleton pushes them over by $3.5 mil. Owner is unwilling to pay tax. Hawks are high on Kobe, so doubtful he'll be included.

The trade value itself is not bad.

However.

NO's own the Bucks draft rights through 27 & swapping a ageing & declining Middleton for a 26yo Ingram give the Bucks a fresh leg to stand on.

NO's shouldn't be in the business of helping the Bucks get younger.

Whole Truth wrote:The trade value itself is not bad.

However.

NO's own the Bucks draft rights through 27 & swapping a ageing & declining Middleton for a 26yo Ingram give the Bucks a fresh leg to stand on.

NO's shouldn't be in the business of helping the Bucks get younger.

This is a very valid point as it could devalue their future picks.

bdpecore wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:The trade value itself is not bad.

However.

NO's own the Bucks draft rights through 27 & swapping a ageing & declining Middleton for a 26yo Ingram give the Bucks a fresh leg to stand on.

NO's shouldn't be in the business of helping the Bucks get younger.

This is a very valid point as it could devalue their future picks.

Depends on projections. If you see Middleton & or Dame tailing off before 27 as I do, I don't want to help Bucks get younger even if some consider Middleton the better player now.

Giannis & a 28 BI is still worth trying to build around, where Bucks might venture trying to turn over Giannis value if Middleton & Dame fall off.

For me the trade off would have to be worth it. I like Portis fit, Hunter is probably neutral value & would be a solid backup to Murphy but ultimately I would be breaking down BI into role players while devaluing my future picks Bucks gave up for Jrue.

I'd sooner offer the Bucks back a draft right, filler for Portis. Than devalue the team 2nd option & owned picks.

This seems bad for New Orleans, Atlanta should be sending more value out like 2 first round picks but I think Hunter has negative value.