RealGM

Basic framework, possibly with some small contracts and/or 2nds going to different teams to balance value and money..

DET trades: Isaiah Stewart, Wendell Moore, Jaden Ivey, Tim Hardaway Jr.
in: Brandon Ingram, Johnny Davis
Detroit trades for a young "star-ish" player.

NOP trades: Brandon Ingram
in: Isaiah Stewart, Corey Kispert, Tim Hardaway Jr.
The Pelicans get a "stretch-ish" 5 and some shooters behind Herb and Murphy. This also gets them from 11 players rostered to 13.

WAS trades: Corey Kispert, Johnny Davis
in: Jaden Ivey, Wendell Moore
Washington swaps Kispert for a higher upside player and no longer have to think about drafting Johnny Davis.

As it is BabyJ, NO's have to move CJ's 30m to the bench to continue playing Herb with Murray. Which would compound with Hardaway's position & salary.

I'm in the minority but I move CJ long before BI.

(CJ, FRP) for (Stewart, Kispert & or cap space)

( ? ) - Stewart - Missi
Zion - Stewart - Theis
BI - Murphy
Herb - Hawkins
Murray - (FA Jones) - Jose

I'd like a CJ fan to tell me with Stewart, Murphy, Hawkins & Jones, maybe Kispert if not cap space, NO's need CJ's shooting.

Whole Truth wrote:As it is BabyJ, NO's have to move CJ's 30m to the bench to continue playing Herb with Murray. Which would compound with Hardaway's position & salary.

I'm in the minority but I move CJ long before BI.

(CJ, FRP) for (Stewart, Kispert & or cap space)

( ? ) - Stewart - Missi
Zion - Stewart - Theis
BI - Murphy
Herb - Hawkins
Murray - (FA Jones) - Jose

I'd like a CJ fan to tell me with Stewart, Murphy, Hawkins & Jones, maybe Kispert if not cap space, NO's need CJ's shooting.

I don't think teams will trade for CJ.

babyjax13 wrote:I don't think teams will trade for CJ.

You may be right but surely some team in need of spacing can see a fit for a 42% shooter on volume.

Maybe a team in need of his veteran leadership

Has Ingram's value fallen so far as to be equivalent to 3 mediocre role players?

TorontoBarneys wrote:Has Ingram's value fallen so far as to be equivalent to 3 mediocre role players?

Looks so but if that is the case, I rather keep him & dump CJ for cap space.

Whole Truth wrote:

TorontoBarneys wrote:Has Ingram's value fallen so far as to be equivalent to 3 mediocre role players?

Looks so but if that is the case, I rather keep him & dump CJ for cap space.

I would have to think there is a treadmill team out there that would at least offer some mediocre 1sts for the right to max out Ingram.

Players who are not clear cut max players lose a ton of value as they head into the final year of their contract because the team trading for them is basically forced to overpay. Case in point, New York and OG Anunoby. NY had to offer the deal they did to prevent him from getting to a meeting with Philly.

R-DAWG wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:

TorontoBarneys wrote:Has Ingram's value fallen so far as to be equivalent to 3 mediocre role players?

Looks so but if that is the case, I rather keep him & dump CJ for cap space.

I would have to think there is a treadmill team out there that would at least offer some mediocre 1sts for the right to max out Ingram.

Players who are not clear cut max players lose a ton of value as they head into the final year of their contract because the team trading for them is basically forced to overpay. Case in point, New York and OG Anunoby. NY had to offer the deal they did to prevent him from getting to a meeting with Philly.

I don't think Ingram's value has dropped too much, but he's a one year rental at this point, which isn't worth much except to a playoff team, but most of them don't have any cap space to absorb him. And the other point, if he's not a one year rental, then he is going to be a max player, and I don't think every team agrees with that assessment. 4 years at $30M per year? Heck ya. 4 years at $50M per? hmmmm

TorontoBarneys wrote:Has Ingram's value fallen so far as to be equivalent to 3 mediocre role players?

Basically the result of the team taking him on having to max him. His value right now doesn't seem great after another injury hit season and then a poor playoff showing. I think NO would do better to hold onto him until the trade deadline and get a Siakam like haul from a team desperate to make some noise in the playoffs.

At the trade deadline I suggested - Dejounte Murray based off NO's best tested lineup.

Jonas - Zion - BI - Herb - Daniels (+20) with at least a 10 game sample.

Offensive C & elite POA defender with ZIon, BI & Herb core. What NO's want to upgrade is the offensive C, Green wants to imitate GS despite personnel, wants a switch defending C & a POA defender capable of spacing the floor... Hence Murray being my target. A defensive down grade from Daniels, upgrade from CJ. A spacing down grade from CJ but upgrade from Daniels.

C - Zion - BI - Herb - Murray

I would like to think NO's had a trade for a C lined up before trading Daniels for Murray but it doesn't appear so. I think the main priority on the C should be the ability to draw his man out the paint to deal with how teams zone Zion, with an obvious hope for a defensive upgrade.

Utah turning down 2 firsts for a bench C, lol. I'd be looking at the Raptors & Poeltl. Long before Kessler but it looks like NO's placing a lot of value in cheap contracts.

The reason this lineup worked was defense, pace, more transition offense & post efficiency. Why I have CJ off the bench or traded for a 4/5 big that can space & cap space. Would be willing to give up a pick to Detroit for Stewart, cap space. Would still need to trade for someone like Poeltl because NO's were stupid & let Jonas walk for 10m to keep CJ & look for a rim protector to cleanup after him, LMAO.

Dont see Wiz getting Ivey with that platter of nothing. Johnny Davis may not be in the league after this season, and Kispert is as average of player there's ever been created

What Daniels as POA defender allowed was Herb not have to be the primary defender, where he's a better help defender, roamer. Daniels elite man defense, allowed Herb to roam. This created more steals, blks, transition offense & post efficiency in Daniels low usage, which is why it worked with very little spacing. The post efficiency takes a hit letting Jonas walk but Murray as the POA provides more spacing than Daniels did. The reason I placed priority value on a POA defender than a star like Young & the team friendly contract of Murray to Youngs 40m.

Defense, pace & cap savings.. team building, not name hunting.

NO's/Green wanting to switch defend ran Nance switch ability over Jonas offensive efficiency

Nance - Zion - BI - Herb - CJ (-6.5)

Reason I have priority on a C that can draw his man out the paint. Teams were ignoring Nance offensively to pack & help in the paint. Reason, BI was relegated to taking more mid range shots under Green. The paint was packed in part because of Greens defensive lineups.

BI under SVG - 6/7 3's a game at 38% efficiency 2yrs
BI under Green - 4 3's a game at 35% efficiency 3yrs

Amazing what coaching can do to a players value.

babyjax13 wrote:Basic framework, possibly with some small contracts and/or 2nds going to different teams to balance value and money..

DET trades: Isaiah Stewart, Wendell Moore, Jaden Ivey, Tim Hardaway Jr.
in: Brandon Ingram, Johnny Davis
Detroit trades for a young "star-ish" player.

NOP trades: Brandon Ingram
in: Isaiah Stewart, Corey Kispert, Tim Hardaway Jr.
The Pelicans get a "stretch-ish" 5 and some shooters behind Herb and Murphy. This also gets them from 11 players rostered to 13.

WAS trades: Corey Kispert, Johnny Davis
in: Jaden Ivey, Wendell Moore
Washington swaps Kispert for a higher upside player and no longer have to think about drafting Johnny Davis.

I was thinking that it would make more sense to involve Malcolm Brogdon in this trade rather than Kispert + filler. Brogdon is a better win-now player for New Orleans, whereas Kispert is a younger, cheaper role player that the Wizards would have interest in keeping going forward.

It would probably change the dynamics of the deal substantially, but some sort of 3-way deal where Ingram goes out, Brogdon and stuff comes in, and a 3rd team gives up stuff to get Ingram could work.

I'd cut out WAS, Ivey's upside>>1 year rental of Kispert.

Wizards stealing value here.

No way they swap Ivey for Kispert, even after what happened last year.

I like the bones of Stewart/Ivey for Ingram

daoneandonly wrote:Dont see Wiz getting Ivey with that platter of nothing. Johnny Davis may not be in the league after this season, and Kispert is as average of player there's ever been created

Kispert is a limited but valuable player. He's a consistent .600 ts% 3 point specialist who has added the ability to get to the hoop and finish and upped his usage from 15 to 20 (despite playing with Kuzma and Poole). True his defense is poor and he doesn't bring much besides shooting but that's a valuable skill in today's NBA. His last name might as well be Bogdanovitch.

Ivey has not shown anything other than a willingness to shoot a lot so far. His defense is also poor, he isn't very good at creating for others, and while very athletic, he hasn't shown much ability to leverage that athleticism into value. Both are basically scorers; Ivey though is a bad one so far. What he offers is that he is still young. He's 3 years younger than Kispert with an extra year of rookie contract. Maybe he'll turn into a decent NBA player, maybe more, but unlike Kispert, he isn't one yet.

People keep trying to move Ivey to Washington, but we already have one Jordan Poole type. Like Ivey, he was decent (not good, but decent) for part of the year after being garbage the first half (even worse than Ivery or, well, ANYONE ELSE IN THE NBA). But not much current value either.

TorontoBarneys wrote:Has Ingram's value fallen so far as to be equivalent to 3 mediocre role players?

2 mediocre and one with negative value. That package is a bit better then neutral value. Pels are better letting Ingram expire or trade him into cap space.

$210 million or $52.5m per season for 4 years for a player that’s shooting less and less 3’s and injured 25% of every season is not being traded for Ivey and Stewart. YNOR would be lucky to get neutral value for Ingram at this point