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Miami get BI

Detroit gets Herro

Pelicans get Duncan Robinson and Isaiah Stewart

Why?

Miami gets BI to add height and athleticism to Jimmy and Bam. If Jimmy walks next offseason Miami can resign BI. If BI walks then Miami opens up a lot of cap space. Also reduces payroll this year to sign someone like Tyus Jones with their tax payers MLE

Detroit gets Herro who is young and can fit extremely well with Cade. He can help space the floor and scoring load. Herro needs a fresh start from Miami and this deal allows him to join the Detroit young nucleus and grow with them.

If the Pelicans continue to not want to pay BI then this deal gets them a center at a great value contract who can fit with Zion. Adds toughness and can space the floor. They also get Duncan who is one of the best outside shooters the league. Will provide elite level floor space. In effect it breaks the Ingram deal into two medium sized deals. Duncan ‘s deal is only $9 million guaranteed next year.

Thoughts?


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I still don’t want to trade Stewart, but I’m not Langdon. Seems like a needs-meeting idea outside of Detroit, who are taking an expensive flyer on a talented offensive player.

Would rather have done this before trading for THJ and signing Beasley, though.

In another thread discussing Herro to Detroit someone posted something smart that made me laugh.

If Herro is this bad defensively in Miami, imagine how bad he would be in Detroit.

Detroit is a terrible fit for that reason. The game is played on both sides of the floor, and the last thing we need is another guard that plays 0 defense. We have enough of those alread.

I'd be fine with Duncan Robinson tho. I like him a lot more than Herro, and his contract is a lot better as well.

But if NO is trading Ingram for Stewart and Robinson, Detroit will just cut Miami and get Ingram themselves, and pay to acquire a similar player to Robinson if it's needed.

vege wrote:In another thread discussing Herro to Detroit someone posted something smart that made me laugh.

If Herro is this bad defensively in Miami, imagine how bad he would be in Detroit.

Detroit is a terrible fit for that reason. The game is played on both sides of the floor, and the last thing we need is another guard that plays 0 defense. We have enough of those alread.

I'd be fine with Duncan Robinson tho. I like him a lot more than Herro, and his contract is a lot better as well.

But if NO is trading Ingram for Stewart and Robinson, Detroit will just cut Miami and get Ingram themselves, and pay to acquire a similar player to Robinson if it's needed.

Interesting thought because one of the original proposals I was thinking of Duncan for Stewart. It gives Miami more frontcourt help and gives Detroit another sharpshooter on semi-expiring contract.


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ThaFranchize84 wrote:

vege wrote:In another thread discussing Herro to Detroit someone posted something smart that made me laugh.

If Herro is this bad defensively in Miami, imagine how bad he would be in Detroit.

Detroit is a terrible fit for that reason. The game is played on both sides of the floor, and the last thing we need is another guard that plays 0 defense. We have enough of those alread.

I'd be fine with Duncan Robinson tho. I like him a lot more than Herro, and his contract is a lot better as well.

But if NO is trading Ingram for Stewart and Robinson, Detroit will just cut Miami and get Ingram themselves, and pay to acquire a similar player to Robinson if it's needed.

Interesting thought because one of the original proposals I was thinking of Duncan for Stewart. It gives Miami more frontcourt help and gives Detroit another sharpshooter on semi-expiring contract.


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Before free agency started I would have done that deal, now I don't think I would. We added enough shooters, I think Stewart is more valuable for us.

But I have both Stewart and Duncan Robinson having similar value.

I was thinking of this framework, too. At this point, the Heat seem like the main potential trade team for Ingram, given his connection with Bam and their need to keep up with the others in the East. Still would bet against D. Griffin settling for this low return value before the season, only at the trade deadline if forced to lose BI for nothing in free agency, like the Siakam situation.

Using this same framework can work with other teams, too:

Heat outgoing: one of Herro/Rozier, Duncan as the main salaries, plus value (Jovic and first(s), swap(s)).

Heat incoming: Ingram (if more value is needed to give up more assets for them to take the Ingram risk, think they would highly value Alvarado in their market with the Arroyo and Latino connection to the area, plus he's that defensive all heart 'dawg' kind of Heat culture guy on a minimum deal + Matt Ryan as a Duncan Robinson replacement on a minimum deal.
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3rd team (DET, TOR, ORL) outgoing: good/decent Center option (WCJ, Stewart, Poeltl, Olynyk) + matching salary.

3rd team incoming: one of Herro/Rozier, plus asset(s) as needed (Jovic and/or Heat 1st)
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Pelicans outgoing: Ingram (Alvarado and/or Matt Ryan if needed to complete the deal for optimal value)

Pels incoming: Center from 3rd team + Duncan Rob + asset(s) (Jovic and/or Heat 1st(s))

I know everyone values their own assets more than they should, but I do like Stewart and I don't think Detroit should trade him.

As for Herro, I think Ivey is Herro-lite with a much smaller contract and also potential to grow into a legit starter. Herro would block that. I think better for the Pistons to not do trade as proposed.

If Miami needs to get off some money, I'd be happy to take Duncan Robinson off your hands. I wouldn't want to trade Cade, Ausar, Duren, Ivey, Holland, Tek or Stewart. I told you people overrate their own players And no future firsts. Beasley, THJ, Reed?

Let me see if I have this straight.

Lauri who's injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is worth 2 young players & 4 picks whereas BI who's also injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is barely worth a backup 4/5 & a negative contract.

Lol, NO's better off letting BI expire.

Whole Truth wrote:Let me see if I have this straight.

Lauri who's injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is worth 2 young players & 4 picks whereas BI who's also injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is barely worth a backup 4/5 & a negative contract.

Lol, NO's better off letting BI expire.

I don't think most people consider Brandon Ingram to be as good as Lauri. I know I don't. Positionally, Lauri could fit well in Miami. I don't see the fit for Ingram between Bam and Butler.

Miami has to send Ware to N.O. for this to have any chance. I mean just not trading Ingram is an option here.

I don't think the Pelicans would settle for this. But if the price is this low, I would cut out Miami and trade Stewart and Hardaway for Ingram.

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Neither of those Miami guys have positive value, Herro is surely negative, dont see how this nets them an expiring BI

BBallFreak wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:Let me see if I have this straight.

Lauri who's injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is worth 2 young players & 4 picks whereas BI who's also injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is barely worth a backup 4/5 & a negative contract.

Lol, NO's better off letting BI expire.

I don't think most people consider Brandon Ingram to be as good as Lauri. I know I don't. Positionally, Lauri could fit well in Miami. I don't see the fit for Ingram between Bam and Butler.

Ingram used in Lauri's role of just catching and shooting mostly threes would be a far more efficient scorer. Conversely, if Lauri was asked to self-create in the midrange and create for three point shooters, he wouldn't be a .640 TS% scorer.

Laimbeer wrote:I don't think the Pelicans would settle for this. But if the price is this low, I would cut out Miami and trade Stewart and Hardaway for Ingram.

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Can we trade THJr right now with someone else? Thought I read he can only be dealt alone

jbk1234 wrote:Miami has to send Ware to N.O. for this to have any chance. I mean just not trading Ingram is an option here.

Kel'el is going noWare.

DayofMourning wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:Miami has to send Ware to N.O. for this to have any chance. I mean just not trading Ingram is an option here.

Kel'el is going noWare.

I mean I think the Heat should be pivoting to a rebuild, but they seem very reluctant to do that. If they want a played like Ingram, they have to offer something the Pelicans want and not just unwanted salaries.

jbk1234 wrote:

DayofMourning wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:Miami has to send Ware to N.O. for this to have any chance. I mean just not trading Ingram is an option here.

Kel'el is going noWare.

I mean I think the Heat should be pivoting to a rebuild, but they seem very reluctant to do that. If they want a played like Ingram, they have to offer something the Pelicans want and not just unwanted salaries.

My view of them currently is that theyre ruffling Butlers feathers with all the media commentary. Theyre hoping to light his fuse and get A plus Butler for this coming year. Theyve got USA team guys in Jaime and Bam looking to upgrade. They drafted/undrafted extremely well this year.

This is the last chance year on JB. I cant imagine they look at Ingram as a guy that puts them any more over the top then they already are. I grade him higher than Herro because of his measurables and my belief that wed max him out production wise, especially as a defender. But, I doubt wed take another swing unless someone really established becane available.

BK_2020 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

Whole Truth wrote:Let me see if I have this straight.

Lauri who's injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is worth 2 young players & 4 picks whereas BI who's also injury prone facing a 50m ext with a year remaining is barely worth a backup 4/5 & a negative contract.

Lol, NO's better off letting BI expire.

I don't think most people consider Brandon Ingram to be as good as Lauri. I know I don't. Positionally, Lauri could fit well in Miami. I don't see the fit for Ingram between Bam and Butler.

Ingram used in Lauri's role of just catching and shooting mostly threes would be a far more efficient scorer. Conversely, if Lauri was asked to self-create in the midrange and create for three point shooters, he wouldn't be a .640 TS% scorer.

Yup, when I mention system & coaching concerning Lauri. BI under SVG's 2yrs was averaging 6-7 3 pointers at 48% with far more creation ability. While Lauri was being passed around by Chicago & Cavs.

IMO, Utah's coach, non pressure environment & usage is a big reason for Lauri's leap in value. Some argued that teams that trade for him will just replicate that environment, usage.

I believe anyone that pays Ainge asking price, be prepared for depreciated value.