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Seems like GSW is fine waiting for Ainge and Lauri... And Miami is fine having Jimmy play out this year and decide what to do next year based off how this year goes.. But we are this part of the offseason...

The base bad idea..

Wiggins, Kuminga, Payton, Looney, Moody, Podz for Butler and whatever vet mins. Throw in the 2025 first?

Really needs a third team to get Miami under the tax and get GSW a full roster? But shouldn’t be difficult to dump Looney on a third team.. a few seconds is worth that.. Or maybe it’s a partial Wiggins dump..

Technically, GSW could keep Podz out of it if they are signing true vet mins and still stay under the first apron? Not sure if that is needed to correct the value or if GSW would have to add a lightly protected 2027 first to get to keep Podz?

Does Miami like it better if they end up with Ingram and Kuminga? And you piece the value to make that deal work?

Maybe this turned out to be more a random idea topic than a thread? But would be a nice send off for Curry/Butler/Dray..

jayjaysee wrote:Seems like GSW is fine waiting for Ainge and Lauri... And Miami is fine having Jimmy play out this year and decide what to do next year based off how this year goes.. But we are this part of the offseason...

The base bad idea..

Wiggins, Kuminga, Payton, Looney, Moody, Podz for Butler and whatever vet mins. Throw in the 2025 first?

Really needs a third team to get Miami under the tax and get GSW a full roster? But shouldn’t be difficult to dump Looney on a third team.. a few seconds is worth that.. Or maybe it’s a partial Wiggins dump..

Technically, GSW could keep Podz out of it if they are signing true vet mins and still stay under the first apron? Not sure if that is needed to correct the value or if GSW would have to add a lightly protected 2027 first to get to keep Podz?

Does Miami like it better if they end up with Ingram and Kuminga? And you piece the value to make that deal work?

Maybe this turned out to be more a random idea topic than a thread? But would be a nice send off for Curry/Butler/Dray..

That's a lot of players for Golden State to give and Miami to absorb. I don't know if Golden State would give all that up. I would think Wiggins, Kuminga, and filler, plus maybe a protected first, would do the trick if Miami wanted to move him, and that's only assuming Butler and Golden State could come to an agreement on an extension.

Would we prefer Ingram and Kuminga? Hell yes! I don't expect it, however.

I don't think this is realistic for two reasons:

First, the cap/apron issues. Miami is over the first apron, which means they need to shed salary in the deal. GS is only $500k below the first apron (at which we're hard-capped), which means we basically can't add salary either. So at a minimum this probably requires a cap space team to take back salary without sending any back, which decreases the return to Miami/increases the cost to GS.

Second, and probably more important, is that Lacob just gave an interview to the Athletic's local guys where he said that it would be "incredibly stupid" to "mortgage the next ten years for one year." If he's saying that in the context of trading for a 27-year-old Lauri Markkanen, it probably goes double for a 34-year-old Butler.

gswhoops wrote:I don't think this is realistic for two reasons:

First, the cap/apron issues. Miami is over the first apron, which means they need to shed salary in the deal. GS is only $500k below the first apron (at which we're hard-capped), which means we basically can't add salary either. So at a minimum this probably requires a cap space team to take back salary without sending any back, which decreases the return to Miami/increases the cost to GS.

Second, and probably more important, is that Lacob just gave an interview to the Athletic's local guys where he said that it would be "incredibly stupid" to "mortgage the next ten years for one year." If he's saying that in the context of trading for a 27-year-old Lauri Markkanen, it probably goes double for a 34-year-old Butler.

The first, is pretty easily worked around by paying a few seconds to dump Payton on a third team. There’s some TPE’s, MLE, cap space sitting still. Could include Moody to that team as some value.. Which would help the tax/roster spot issue..

The second - I think Ainge wants the future picks. Think Miami would do a deal without future picks. So GSW isn’t really trading their future. They are just guaranteeing they are tanking hard in 2-4 years..

I think the salary works with Wiggins/Kunminga/Payton/Looney as long as Looney or Payton gets moved to a 3rd team (though I'm not sure about GS having to room to back fill the roster spots)

GS needs to keep Podz and Moody in order to have enough depth to be credible. Also given Butler's age you can at most justify adding the 2025 1st (and maybe a 2nd or two for salary dumping someone). That's really the most GS can sanely offer. It does set them up to start a hard rebuild in a year or two but they'd have all their 1sts going forward at that point.

Does Miami accept that offer? I'd expect no but if they aren't convinced that they're better than 8th in the EC right now and arguably fading from there with Butler's age then maybe.

Jimmy Butler vs. Draymond Green.

I like it! We would need a fight promoter. Would it be MMA or bare knuckle boxing?

Miami gonna have a 20 plus man roster after this trade.

DayofMourning wrote:Miami gonna have a 20 plus man roster after this trade.

Meh. You could send Larson and Richardson out with Butler.

I just didn’t list the actual in and out as adding a third team taking Moody and Payton for 2-3 vet mins (getting back however many 2nds) would get Miami under the tax, while keeping GSW under the apron. Some team still has their MLE or has a big enough TPE for Payton.. Utah can spare 8-9 million in cap space and still give Lauri his money.

Miami would then end up just doing

Wiggins, Kuminga, Looney, Podz, 2025 first for Butler, Larrson, Richardson. Under the tax and decide between buying someone out or not keeping Stevens. Could take Podz/Larrson out and add the 2027 GSW first if you prefer the first over Podz..

And GSW would have enough of a roster around the three stars to feel good. TJD, Anderson, Alec, Buddy, Melton..

Spurs are 30M under the tax, they don't have cap space, but they can use matching + 7.5 to eat salary
Bassy for GPII, and Wesley for Looney, this eats ~15M, but they'll charge you an arm and a leg for it

Mavrelous wrote:Spurs are 30M under the tax, they don't have cap space, but they can use matching + 7.5 to eat salary
Bassy for GPII, and Wesley for Looney, this eats ~15M, but they'll charge you an arm and a leg for it

I was looking at Washington, Detroit or Utah, just eating one of Looney or Payton and then sending two vet mins to GSW to match Moody. That ends up saving Miami 1414 mil by not bringing in two extra bodies and saves GSW enough to stay under the apron. That should only cost a couple seconds unless GSW or Miami want to pay a first/swap to end up with an actual useful player back (unlikely addition, but still possible)

Butler, Richardson, Larson, Jared Butler, Omoruyi to GSW
Moody, Payton, 1-2 seconds to Washington
Wiggins, Kuminga, Looney, Podz, 2025 first to Miami

GSW is under apron and set to compete for a year or three depending on how long the old guys last. And then a hard rebuild comes.

Miami barely over the tax, but could look to get under later (Looney and seconds, Wiggins for 18-20 million, etc).. or do a harder rebuild and trade Kuminga for “2 firsts” if you’re okay having a really bad year in Bam’s prime..

Interesting premise for sure. That sure is a good dela of depth for GS to sacrifice, but it is Jimmy Buckets

jayjaysee wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:Spurs are 30M under the tax, they don't have cap space, but they can use matching + 7.5 to eat salary
Bassy for GPII, and Wesley for Looney, this eats ~15M, but they'll charge you an arm and a leg for it

I was looking at Washington, Detroit or Utah, just eating one of Looney or Payton and then sending two vet mins to GSW to match Moody. That ends up saving Miami 1414 mil by not bringing in two extra bodies and saves GSW enough to stay under the apron. That should only cost a couple seconds unless GSW or Miami want to pay a first/swap to end up with an actual useful player back (unlikely addition, but still possible)

Butler, Richardson, Larson, Jared Butler, Omoruyi to GSW
Moody, Payton, 1-2 seconds to Washington
Wiggins, Kuminga, Looney, Podz, 2025 first to Miami

GSW is under apron and set to compete for a year or three depending on how long the old guys last. And then a hard rebuild comes.

Miami barely over the tax, but could look to get under later (Looney and seconds, Wiggins for 18-20 million, etc).. or do a harder rebuild and trade Kuminga for “2 firsts” if you’re okay having a really bad year in Bam’s prime..

I mean, I would do that for sure, though I don't think the front office would as they are determined to compete. While I think that team could make the play in, I don't see them as a contender, but I love the idea of cashing in on Jimmy.

Pg: Rozier / ????
Sg: Herro / Robinson / Podz
Sf: Wiggins / Jaquez / Highsmith
Pf: Kuminga / Jovic / Love
Cc: Bam / Ware / Looney

You probably have to trade Herro, Robinson, or Podz, and maybe Looney and the first for something that fits a bit better. Very deep team, but no point guard depth.

Without CP2 contract hard to match in value.

Wiggins + exps and a pick plus a swap is the difference in value I'd pay