RealGM

NOP outgoing:
Ingram

NOP incoming:
Poeltl + Payton II + Moody + '25 GSW 1st (top-8 prot.)
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GSW outgoing:
Wiggins + Payton II + Moody + '25 GSW 1st (top-8 prot.) + '26 ATL 2nd + '28 ATL 2nd

GSW incoming:
Ingram + Ogbaji
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TOR outgoing:
Poeltl + Ogbaji

TOR incoming:
Wiggins + '25 ATL 2nd (via GSW) + '28 ATL 2nd (via GSW)
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Warriors
After missing out on Markannen and feeling the pressure to improve the talent in Steph's final years-- Warriors pivot to acquire Ingram at a discounted asset price. Many reasons why it wouldn't probably won't happen (Kerr/Ingram Team USA clash, Ingram contract demands, iso mid-range playstyle). But in this scenario, Dunleavey has had productive discussions with Ingram's agent, and new Warriors assistant coach Jerry Stackhouse was Ingram's mentor coming up in Kingston, NC. So he will serve as a bridge to get the most out of Ingram and adjust his play style to thrive alongside Curry and co. in the Warriors system. They also get some wing depth in Ogbaji, to replace Moody. Should a Boucher/Looney swap be added here?

Pelicans
David Griffin finds a team willing to take on Ingram with all his talent and question marks, and rather than hold out hope for a bigger return at the trade deadline (more likely at this point)-- he accepts sunk cost and re-balances the roster before the season. They get back a 1st and Poeltl as the main Centerpiece in the deal, a solid defensive anchor C who won't demand shots but will do all the role-player dirty work like setting hard screens, rebounding and defending the rim with some perimeter switch-ability. He's on a decent contract the next 3 years, giving time for their project C Missi to develop. Pels will still focus on small-ball closing lineups, but Poeltl helps through a long, bruising season and can help slow down the Jokic, Gobert, Wemby, Edey s of the conference. They also get a flier on Moody and add a tough back-up defender in Payton II, both on expiring contracts for trade deadline matching or salary relief next offseason. *Pels would have to waive a player to cut the roster down to 15. JRE or M. Ryan could be waived before their guarantee dates.

Raptors
Masai takes the opportunity to add another Canadian gem in his Thanos gauntlet, Mr. Maple Leaf Jordan himself, Andrew Wiggins. They revive the Wings with Wingspan dream vision. Beyond the fun, PR Canada angle, the real motivations could be a stealth tank move, giving up their defensive anchor Center and going with wing-heavy line-ups. They also get 2 nice 2nds to add to their asset chest. Ideally, Brown would be going out, but the salary is too big alongside Poeltl outgoing, so they can move him in another deal or at the deadline. * They can sign Bruno Fernando (C) to min. free agent deal to help get by at Center.

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Warriors:

Green/ TDJ/ Looney
Kuminga/ Anderson/ Santos
Ingram/ Ogbaji
Podz/ Hield/ Waters
Curry/ Melton
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Pelicans

Poeltl/ Theis/ Karlo/ Missi
Zion/ JRE
Murphy/ Moody/ Payton II
Herb/ McCullom/ Hawkins/ Reeves
Murray/ Jose
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Raptors

Olynyk/ Fernando*
Barnes/ Boucher/ Mogbo
Wiggins/ Brown
Barrett/ Gradey/ Walter/ Temple
Quickley/ Davion/ Shead

I think that 1st should go to New Orleans and not Toronto, but I like the basic premise well enough if the Raptors want to continue committing huge amounts of money to non-stars. If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

No from Pels, this is a real sell low on Ingram deal and the filler doesn't address any needs really.

While the need for a center is met for NOP, they value Ingram as much more than the return.

babyjax13 wrote:I think that 1st should go to New Orleans and not Toronto, but I like the basic premise well enough if the Raptors want to continue committing huge amounts of money to non-stars. If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Thanks for the feedback, I changed that part. But how much you wanna bet we'll hear "no way we're giving a 1st for trash Brandon Ingram!" LOL. I wonder how much value Raptors would need to sell off Poeltl for Wiggins, given how much they gave up for Poeltl. I changed it to give them two 2nds.

BuddyBuckets wrote:No from Pels, this is a real sell low on Ingram deal and the filler doesn't address any needs really.

Thank you for your input. At this point, what kind of "sell high" or good value do you think Pels will get for Ingram? I suppose you'd rather take it to the trade deadline and see what offers arise, which is a fair, realistic path they'll probably go. But even then, what good offer will arise?

Siakam went for a role player Bruce Brown, and 3 bad 1sts. 2 in a bad draft, (they used pick 19 for Jocaby Walter... and the other low 1st to get Olynyk and Agbaji...). And Siakam is better than Ingram.

And how does Poeltl not address any needs, really? He's a quality starting Center who's really good at the things Pels are lacking. He's not a 3 pt. shooter, but i think you're underrating his value in the nuances of basketball.

louc1970 wrote:While the need for a center is met for NOP, they value Ingram as much more than the return.

Thanks for your input. I'm sure they value Ingram highly, but do you expect some high-value offer to arise in the next few months? And will that deadline offer be good enough to play most of the season juggling a misfit roster and holding back Trey Murphy's starting development while starting Theis at Center?

I think I remember that you're high on Ayton as a return Center for Ingram. But for this team with the scoring options they already have, Poeltl as a low-maintenance, elite role player on his contract is a better fit than Ayton.

babyjax13 wrote:I think that 1st should go to New Orleans and not Toronto, but I like the basic premise well enough if the Raptors want to continue committing huge amounts of money to non-stars. If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Zero interest on Toronto's end without FRP(s) coming back.

OP is terrible for Toronto. Creating a giant hole at C while simultaneously blocking minutes for Dick/Walter. Not to mention the extra ~50M owed without any meaningful incentives coming back

babyjax13 wrote:If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Our capsheet isnt reset even with moving Poeltl, that part makes no sense either. Barrett/IQ/Barnes will keep us from having meaningful capspace for next few years.

For the Warriors, fine from a talent return, but I doubt the Warriors are interested in Ingram. He doesn’t fit their style as the Kerr/Ingram FIBA issues showed

Is the difference between Poeltl and Wiggins only 2 2nds?

Feels like it should be a little more. Atleast one more 2nd is needed IMO, considering that 2nds are traded as throw ins all the time.

MessiahUjiri wrote:Is the difference between Poeltl and Wiggins only 2 2nds?

Feels like it should be a little more. Atleast one more 2nd is needed IMO, considering that 2nds are traded as throw ins all the time.

I suspect both players have limited markets and trade value. I don't have the difference as more than a couple seconds either way.

The key is getting the Pelicans to agree, because if they don't, the Warriors won't even be open to moving Wiggins.

jbk1234 wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Is the difference between Poeltl and Wiggins only 2 2nds?

Feels like it should be a little more. Atleast one more 2nd is needed IMO, considering that 2nds are traded as throw ins all the time.

I suspect both players have limited markets and trade value. I don't have the difference as more than a couple seconds either way.

The key is getting the Pelicans to agree, because if they don't, the Warriors won't even be open to moving Wiggins.

if thats the case then Toronto is much better off keeping Poeltl due to fit and $$$

I feel like if the values are right in OP, Toronto should just pay a protected first for Ingram?

Don’t think they should trade for Wiggins or Ingram.. But Ingram is younger and better? If the fit works and you keep Ingram, trade RJ for a long term answer at center and trust is Barnes development. Go get a Capela or some other fill in center for the year for mostly free, or do it cheaper and trust in Kelly..

Think GSW owes a good amount more to get Toronto to eat Wiggins when they already have RJ/Barnes long term salaries..

babyjax13 wrote:If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Toronto typically operates over the cap anyways as we can't attract FA's willingly but if the Raptors wanted, they could generate a fair bit of room over the next couple years, depending on what happens with Brown and Bouch of course. There's pros and cons for Wiggins, his contract seems to fit the short rebuild timeline and the team could probably resign him at a cheaper number and eventually move to a bench role. I'm not so low on Wiggins as others are but only if it makes sense long term, and I'm not sure in this OP.

I've always been open to moving Poeltl, would help the team tank for '25, don't want Ingram at all. Flipping Brown for Wiggins/Hawks 2 srps (or '25 frp) would be interesting, but will probably make the Raptors more of a treadmill and fodder for the first round.

IQ, Mitchell, Shead
Barrett, Walter, Temple
Wiggins, Dick, Agbaji, Mogbo
Barnes, Bouch
Poeltl, Oly, Fernando (Carlson, Chomche)

YayBasketball wrote:

louc1970 wrote:While the need for a center is met for NOP, they value Ingram as much more than the return.

Thanks for your input. I'm sure they value Ingram highly, but do you expect some high-value offer to arise in the next few months? And will that deadline offer be good enough to play most of the season juggling a misfit roster and holding back Trey Murphy's starting development while starting Theis at Center?

I think I remember that you're high on Ayton as a return Center for Ingram. But for this team with the scoring options they already have, Poeltl as a low-maintenance, elite role player on his contract is a better fit than Ayton.

I do not expect a huge offer for Ingram. I just expect NOP to try and extract that offer. If NOP cannot land the center they need/want, I see them making an Ingram deal around pick options.
If NOP can play Williamson, Murphy, Jones, Murray together with a center, they have a fine lineup. This means moving McCollum and Ingram. Then any deals with picks replenishes the depth lost with making the reserves starters.

Ingram gets knocked for his style of play, but he has not had an NBA worthy PG for most of his career.

To make the money work:
OKC trades Dort, K. Williams, Dieng, Wallace (or 2 FRPs/filler)
NOP trades Ingram

OKC is losing a starter in Dort who would be put on the bench if he is not part of the deal. The others are reserves who are backups to backups. The only one I value is Wallace. Include him or give NOP 2 FRPs (Philly's 25 and OKC's 26), both will be late 20s picks.

OKC getting a 4th scorer with Holgren/Hartenstein backing up the defense.

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Our capsheet isnt reset even with moving Poeltl, that part makes no sense either. Barrett/IQ/Barnes will keep us from having meaningful capspace for next few years.

Still do not understand paying IQ that kind of money.

If the trade is with Tronto:

Toronto sends Barrett/Olynyk
NOP sends Ingram/Hawkins

NOP gets a fill in center while Missi learns. He is on a 2 year deal which will give Missi time, plus Theis is there as well. Barrett will be cheaper in the long run than resigning Ingram. The trade also has NOP under the tax.

If Toronto does not want Hawkins (given they have a team of guards), they can have Ryan/JRE.

Putting Ingram next to Barnes on the wings opens up the floor for IQ.

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Our capsheet isnt reset even with moving Poeltl, that part makes no sense either. Barrett/IQ/Barnes will keep us from having meaningful capspace for next few years.

I mean in terms of avoiding paying the tax for a bad team. They are a million under now and of they have to extend guys while having Wiggins (or Poeltl) they just have to keep toeing that line. Moving away from it gives them some flexibility. But unless Barrett breaks put for a full season instead of his usual 15 game stretch twice a year, dealing him for expirings might not be a bad idea, either.

babyjax13 wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:If they want to be smart, they should probably try moving Poeltl for an expiring to reset their capsheet.

Our capsheet isnt reset even with moving Poeltl, that part makes no sense either. Barrett/IQ/Barnes will keep us from having meaningful capspace for next few years.

I mean in terms of avoiding paying the tax for a bad team. They are a million under now and of they have to extend guys while having Wiggins (or Poeltl) they just have to keep toeing that line. Moving away from it gives them some flexibility. But unless Barrett breaks put for a full season instead of his usual 15 game stretch twice a year, dealing him for expirings might not be a bad idea, either.

Toronto's cap situation is just fine: $10M shy of the tax, and not really at any danger of becoming a taxpayer in the next 3 years.

If Dick or one of their rookies breaks out, they can worry about 2027 . .