Utah dumps Collins and Clarkson (w/BRK, NYK)

[babyjax13]

Stealing and slightly balancing bkohler's proposal to match my valuations b/c I think it is very interesting.

UTA trades: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, Walker Kessler, 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
in: Ben Simmons, 2025 BRK 2nd, Keita Bates-Diop
Utah uses Kessler and moving down what is likely 10-15 picks to dump a year of Collins and Clarkson. The real goal here, though, is to open up minutes for the young players and see what we have. IF (and I think this is a big question) we think Walker Kessler just doesn't fit our core, I don't mind feeding possessions to young guys. Even with Lauri playing every game and averaging 30ppg I think we'd struggle to win 25 games after this.

NYK trades: Keita Bates-Diop, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (1-13, 1-11, 1-9, 2027 2nd), 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, 2027 2nd), 2025 BRK 2nd
in: Walker Kessler
New York gets the guy they were rumored to offer '2 1sts' for (likely these ones). I feel like adding a 2nd on top of it - even if it is a good one - shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

BRK trades: Ben Simmons
in: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
Brooklyn takes on a year of salary for what is likely 2 2nds and a 1st, but there is a chance one of the two '1sts' conveys as a late lottery/mid-first round pick.

[Mavrelous]

Fair value, but don't see UTA paying this to dump players.

[babyjax13]

Fair value, but don't see UTA paying this to dump players.

So their young players aren't blocked by Clarkson and Collins. This opens up 28 minutes in the backcourt and 28 minutes in the frontcourt. We just added 3 rookies and have 3 from last year plus other young guys, it is not clear what we have because their paths to minutes are blocked. This also lets us do a balls-to-the wall tank with Lauri. Now I'm happy just to retain assets and eat the money ourselves, but I think it's an interesting proposition to get players real game reps.

[JayTWill]

Stealing and slightly balancing bkohler's proposal to match my valuations b/c I think it is very interesting.

UTA trades: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, Walker Kessler, 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
in: Ben Simmons, 2025 BRK 2nd, Keita Bates-Diop
Utah uses Kessler and moving down what is likely 10-15 picks to dump a year of Collins and Clarkson. The real goal here, though, is to open up minutes for the young players and see what we have. IF (and I think this is a big question) we think Walker Kessler just doesn't fit our core, I don't mind feeding possessions to young guys. Even with Lauri playing every game and averaging 30ppg I think we'd struggle to win 25 games after this.

NYK trades: Keita Bates-Diop, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (1-13, 1-11, 1-9, 2027 2nd), 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, 2027 2nd), 2025 BRK 2nd
in: Walker Kessler
New York gets the guy they were rumored to offer '2 1sts' for (likely these ones). I feel like adding a 2nd on top of it - even if it is a good one - shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

BRK trades: Ben Simmons
in: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
Brooklyn takes on a year of salary for what is likely 2 2nds and a 1st, but there is a chance one of the two '1sts' conveys as a late lottery/mid-first round pick.

The 2025 Brooklyn 2nd was sent back to the Nets in the Mikal trade. Still not a deal-breaker?

Edit - Also the Knicks are above the first apron so they can't take in more money than they send out. I think Kessler makes 300k more than Bates-Diop

[babyjax13]

Stealing and slightly balancing bkohler's proposal to match my valuations b/c I think it is very interesting.

UTA trades: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, Walker Kessler, 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
in: Ben Simmons, 2025 BRK 2nd, Keita Bates-Diop
Utah uses Kessler and moving down what is likely 10-15 picks to dump a year of Collins and Clarkson. The real goal here, though, is to open up minutes for the young players and see what we have. IF (and I think this is a big question) we think Walker Kessler just doesn't fit our core, I don't mind feeding possessions to young guys. Even with Lauri playing every game and averaging 30ppg I think we'd struggle to win 25 games after this.

NYK trades: Keita Bates-Diop, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (1-13, 1-11, 1-9, 2027 2nd), 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, 2027 2nd), 2025 BRK 2nd
in: Walker Kessler
New York gets the guy they were rumored to offer '2 1sts' for (likely these ones). I feel like adding a 2nd on top of it - even if it is a good one - shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

BRK trades: Ben Simmons
in: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
Brooklyn takes on a year of salary for what is likely 2 2nds and a 1st, but there is a chance one of the two '1sts' conveys as a late lottery/mid-first round pick.

The 2025 Brooklyn 2nd was sent back to the Nets in the Mikal trade. Still not a deal-breaker?

Edit - Also the Knicks are above the first apron so they can't take in more money than they send out. I think Kessler makes 300k more than Bates-Diop

I think something more than the two "firsts" needs to come back ro replace the Brooklyn 2nd. Right on salaries, Simms could be added, perhaps going to Utah, as well.

[JayTWill]

Stealing and slightly balancing bkohler's proposal to match my valuations b/c I think it is very interesting.

UTA trades: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, Walker Kessler, 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
in: Ben Simmons, 2025 BRK 2nd, Keita Bates-Diop
Utah uses Kessler and moving down what is likely 10-15 picks to dump a year of Collins and Clarkson. The real goal here, though, is to open up minutes for the young players and see what we have. IF (and I think this is a big question) we think Walker Kessler just doesn't fit our core, I don't mind feeding possessions to young guys. Even with Lauri playing every game and averaging 30ppg I think we'd struggle to win 25 games after this.

NYK trades: Keita Bates-Diop, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (1-13, 1-11, 1-9, 2027 2nd), 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, 2027 2nd), 2025 BRK 2nd
in: Walker Kessler
New York gets the guy they were rumored to offer '2 1sts' for (likely these ones). I feel like adding a 2nd on top of it - even if it is a good one - shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

BRK trades: Ben Simmons
in: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, 2025 WAS 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 DET 1st (likely conveys as 2nds), 2025 UTA/CLE/MIN 1st (worst)
Brooklyn takes on a year of salary for what is likely 2 2nds and a 1st, but there is a chance one of the two '1sts' conveys as a late lottery/mid-first round pick.

The 2025 Brooklyn 2nd was sent back to the Nets in the Mikal trade. Still not a deal-breaker?

Edit - Also the Knicks are above the first apron so they can't take in more money than they send out. I think Kessler makes 300k more than Bates-Diop

I think something more than the two "firsts" needs to come back ro replace the Brooklyn 2nd. Right on salaries, Simms could be added, perhaps going to Utah, as well.

The Knicks have this year's 1st round draft pick Pacome Dadiet, a 6'8 wing from France who I believe had a pre-draft work out for the Jazz and was the youngest player in the draft. He and his $1.8M could be added to the trade but i'm not sure if I would want to add him to both "firsts" going out though. They have a few random seconds but I assume the 2025 Nets' pick was appealing to you since they are expected to be bad next year.

They have the right Rokas Jokubaitis, a 23 year old Lithuanian point guard who may never play for the Knicks with their depth at the guard position and he just signed a deal to stay overseas.

I'm a bit unsure who I would use as salary filler in a Kessler deal. I'm kinda curious to see what Bates-Diop looks like even though I doubt he will get many minutes in the rotation but he did look good in San Antonio. Personally I would rather use Payne as salary filler but I don't think he can be traded until December 15th.

So what about Sims + Pacome + one of the "firsts" and maybe another random 2nd? I would prefer for the Knicks to keep the Detroit pick but it is negotiable.

[BK_2020]

If you are blocked by John Collins and Jordan Clarkson the problem isn't John Collins and Jordan Clarkson.

[HadAnEffectHere]

If you are blocked by John Collins and Jordan Clarkson the problem isn't John Collins and Jordan Clarkson.

Collins is like the 27th best center in the NBA and Clarkson was pretty much the worst player in the NBA last year who wasn't on a rookie contract so in general, yes.

I guess the concern is that Will Hardy is too scared to bench veterans?

[jazzfan1971]

No need to pay this rather huge cost to open up minutes. Simply need to get the coach to play the guys.

I think there is value in making the young guys earn their minutes. So, I'm not terribly bothered by the young guys being 'stuck' behind vets.

Unless you think Ben Simmons will resurrect his career here, there is no reason to do this. It's just throwing assets away.

Sorry, but no. I know fans get frustrated with their shiny new toys kept pristine on the shelf, but a little patience here will pay dividends.

In fact, I'd probably rather just cut those two and accept the dead salary if I was this desperate as the GM to force the coaches hand.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

In a bubble this is an interesting return but Brooklyn already has 4 picks in the 2025 draft.

In reality Brooklyn says no because helping the Knicks get Walker Kessler greatly decreases the value of the Knicks picks that Brooklyn already owns.

[JayTWill]

In a bubble this is an interesting return but Brooklyn already has 4 picks in the 2025 draft.

In reality Brooklyn says no because helping the Knicks get Walker Kessler greatly decreases the value of the Knicks picks that Brooklyn already owns.

With or without Brooklyn the Knicks will probably attempt to improve their center rotation and with or without Kessler the Knicks will still probably be a very good to great regular season team so why wouldn't you want to add future value to your team? Do you really think that Brooklyn declining this deal makes a difference in the value of the Knicks picks?

[TheBrooklynKidd]

In a bubble this is an interesting return but Brooklyn already has 4 picks in the 2025 draft.

In reality Brooklyn says no because helping the Knicks get Walker Kessler greatly decreases the value of the Knicks picks that Brooklyn already owns.

With or without Brooklyn the Knicks will probably attempt to improve their center rotation and with or without Kessler the Knicks will still probably be a very good to great regular season team so why wouldn't you want to add future value to your team? Do you really think that Brooklyn declining this deal makes a difference in the value of the Knicks picks?

I don’t think they can get Kessler right now without giving up a core player but I could be wrong.

I think Kessler at age 22 makes them a legit sustainable contender for years.

I just don’t think another late pick in 2025 and a Detroit pick that might not convey are worth sacrificing $40 million in cap space and devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

[JayTWill]

In a bubble this is an interesting return but Brooklyn already has 4 picks in the 2025 draft.

In reality Brooklyn says no because helping the Knicks get Walker Kessler greatly decreases the value of the Knicks picks that Brooklyn already owns.

With or without Brooklyn the Knicks will probably attempt to improve their center rotation and with or without Kessler the Knicks will still probably be a very good to great regular season team so why wouldn't you want to add future value to your team? Do you really think that Brooklyn declining this deal makes a difference in the value of the Knicks picks?

I don’t think they can get Kessler right now without giving up a core player but I could be wrong.

I think Kessler at age 22 makes them a legit sustainable contender for years.

I just don’t think another late pick in 2025 and a Detroit pick that may or may not convey are worth sacrificing $40 million in cap space and devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

I can see Brooklyn declining this deal for cap space purposes especially if they plan to use that cap space to improve the team but not because of some concerns about the value of the Knicks' picks.

The Knicks just came off of a season where their starting 2 guard under-performed and was eventually traded for 2 extremely negative bench players while they lost their starting center to injury and then traded their starting small forward and 1 key bench player for another starting small forward and then that starting small forward along with their starting power forward went down due to injury while other players were dealing with injuries and they still ended up with the 24th/25th pick in the draft.

Their center rotation over the last few years was a second round pick and a guy they picked up in free agency for cheap after his previous team chose to keep John Wall over him. The primary role of the center in Thibs system is simply to set screens, rebound and defend while other players carry the offense. I don't know if it is a recipe for playoff success but Thibs has had regular season success throughout his career doing it this way. Kessler fits well in that role but other players have filled that role before and other players can fill that role now.

I don't see how Brooklyn declining this deal affects the value of the Knicks' pick and also don't think Kessler would require the Knicks to move a core piece to acquire if he was on the market but maybe you value Kessler much more highly than I do. If I was Brooklyn I might do this deal just to drain New York of their last remaining draft picks with any real value forcing them to have to actually move a key core piece if they wanted to attempt to improve the team down the road while gaining some assets for themselves if I did not plan on using the cap space next year.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

With or without Brooklyn the Knicks will probably attempt to improve their center rotation and with or without Kessler the Knicks will still probably be a very good to great regular season team so why wouldn't you want to add future value to your team? Do you really think that Brooklyn declining this deal makes a difference in the value of the Knicks picks?

I don’t think they can get Kessler right now without giving up a core player but I could be wrong.

I think Kessler at age 22 makes them a legit sustainable contender for years.

I just don’t think another late pick in 2025 and a Detroit pick that may or may not convey are worth sacrificing $40 million in cap space and devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

I can see Brooklyn declining this deal for cap space purposes especially if they plan to use that cap space to improve the team but not because of some concerns about the value of the Knicks' picks.

The Knicks just came off of a season where their starting 2 guard under-performed and was eventually traded for 2 extremely negative bench players while they lost their starting center to injury and then traded their starting small forward and 1 key bench player for another starting small forward and then that starting small forward along with their starting power forward went down due to injury while other players were dealing with injuries and they still ended up with the 24th/25th pick in the draft.

Their center rotation over the last few years was a second round pick and a guy they picked up in free agency for cheap after his previous team chose to keep John Wall over him. The primary role of the center in Thibs system is simply to set screens, rebound and defend while other players carry the offense. I don't know if it is a recipe for playoff success but Thibs has had regular season success throughout his career doing it this way. Kessler fits well in that role but other players have filled that role before and other players can fill that role now.

I don't see how Brooklyn declining this deal affects the value of the Knicks' pick and also don't think Kessler would require the Knicks to move a core piece to acquire if he was on the market but maybe you value Kessler much more highly than I do. If I was Brooklyn I might do this deal just to drain New York of their last remaining draft picks with any real value forcing them to have to actually move a key core piece if they wanted to attempt to improve the team down the road while gaining some assets for themselves if I did not plan on using the cap space next year.

Outside of core players the Knicks only have the Detroit 1st & 2nds to offer. I don’t think that moves the needle for Utah.

I do think the value of the Knicks picks go down considerably. They get a massive upgrade at their weakest position with a young cost controlled player. There’s no way around it. It has nothing to do with the offensive role of a center in Thibs system, it’s Kessler elite rim protection.

For $40 million in cap space Brooklyn should be able to get assets of this quality, maybe even better and do so without devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

[JayTWill]

I don’t think they can get Kessler right now without giving up a core player but I could be wrong.

I think Kessler at age 22 makes them a legit sustainable contender for years.

I just don’t think another late pick in 2025 and a Detroit pick that may or may not convey are worth sacrificing $40 million in cap space and devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

I can see Brooklyn declining this deal for cap space purposes especially if they plan to use that cap space to improve the team but not because of some concerns about the value of the Knicks' picks.

The Knicks just came off of a season where their starting 2 guard under-performed and was eventually traded for 2 extremely negative bench players while they lost their starting center to injury and then traded their starting small forward and 1 key bench player for another starting small forward and then that starting small forward along with their starting power forward went down due to injury while other players were dealing with injuries and they still ended up with the 24th/25th pick in the draft.

Their center rotation over the last few years was a second round pick and a guy they picked up in free agency for cheap after his previous team chose to keep John Wall over him. The primary role of the center in Thibs system is simply to set screens, rebound and defend while other players carry the offense. I don't know if it is a recipe for playoff success but Thibs has had regular season success throughout his career doing it this way. Kessler fits well in that role but other players have filled that role before and other players can fill that role now.

I don't see how Brooklyn declining this deal affects the value of the Knicks' pick and also don't think Kessler would require the Knicks to move a core piece to acquire if he was on the market but maybe you value Kessler much more highly than I do. If I was Brooklyn I might do this deal just to drain New York of their last remaining draft picks with any real value forcing them to have to actually move a key core piece if they wanted to attempt to improve the team down the road while gaining some assets for themselves if I did not plan on using the cap space next year.

Outside of core players the Knicks only have the Detroit 1st & 2nds to offer. I don’t think that moves the needle for Utah.

I do think the value of the Knicks picks go down considerably. They get a massive upgrade at their weakest position with a young cost controlled player. There’s no way around it.

For $40 million in cap space Brooklyn should be able to get assets of this quality, maybe even better and do so without devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

Once again I agree that you may not want to do this deal for cap space reasons but we will have to agree to disagree about the impact on the value of the Knicks' picks. Basically outside of Brunson going down for the season everything that could go wrong for the Knicks last year did go wrong and it still didn't have a significant effect on the Knicks' pick.

I can't imagine that the difference between Kessler and whoever the Knicks get to upgrade their center rotation would have a bigger effect and it still could be Kessler without Brooklyns' involvement or the Knicks trading a key core player. They have the lower valued "firsts" from Detroit and Washington, pick swaps available, second round picks along with some young players they drafted at the end of the first and beginning of the second round this year.

They also have McBride who i'm not sure how big of a role there will be available to him and not ready to call a core piece until I see how Thibs sets the rotation. Brunson and Bridges could both play 36 minutes at the 1 and 2 leaving only 24 minutes at the back up guard spots where both DDV and Hart have received minutes previously. Currently Kessler is just a limited role player which Ainge has not had a problem moving in the last 2 years without demanding a high return. He just moved Olynyk and a young cost-controlled Agbaji, who was a late lottery pick the season before, for a late first.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I can see Brooklyn declining this deal for cap space purposes especially if they plan to use that cap space to improve the team but not because of some concerns about the value of the Knicks' picks.

The Knicks just came off of a season where their starting 2 guard under-performed and was eventually traded for 2 extremely negative bench players while they lost their starting center to injury and then traded their starting small forward and 1 key bench player for another starting small forward and then that starting small forward along with their starting power forward went down due to injury while other players were dealing with injuries and they still ended up with the 24th/25th pick in the draft.

Their center rotation over the last few years was a second round pick and a guy they picked up in free agency for cheap after his previous team chose to keep John Wall over him. The primary role of the center in Thibs system is simply to set screens, rebound and defend while other players carry the offense. I don't know if it is a recipe for playoff success but Thibs has had regular season success throughout his career doing it this way. Kessler fits well in that role but other players have filled that role before and other players can fill that role now.

I don't see how Brooklyn declining this deal affects the value of the Knicks' pick and also don't think Kessler would require the Knicks to move a core piece to acquire if he was on the market but maybe you value Kessler much more highly than I do. If I was Brooklyn I might do this deal just to drain New York of their last remaining draft picks with any real value forcing them to have to actually move a key core piece if they wanted to attempt to improve the team down the road while gaining some assets for themselves if I did not plan on using the cap space next year.

Outside of core players the Knicks only have the Detroit 1st & 2nds to offer. I don’t think that moves the needle for Utah.

I do think the value of the Knicks picks go down considerably. They get a massive upgrade at their weakest position with a young cost controlled player. There’s no way around it.

For $40 million in cap space Brooklyn should be able to get assets of this quality, maybe even better and do so without devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

Once again I agree that you may not want to do this deal for cap space reasons but we will have to agree to disagree about the impact on the value of the Knicks' picks. Basically outside of Brunson going down for the season everything that could go wrong for the Knicks last year did go wrong and it still didn't have a significant effect on the Knicks' pick.

I can't imagine that the difference between Kessler and whoever the Knicks get to upgrade their center rotation would have a bigger effect and it still could be Kessler without Brooklyns' involvement or the Knicks trading a key core player. They have the lower valued "firsts" from Detroit and Washington, pick swaps available, second round picks along with some young players they drafted at the end of the first and beginning of the second round this year.

They also have McBride who i'm not sure how big of a role there will be available to him and not ready to call a core piece until I see how Thibs sets the rotation. Brunson and Bridges could both play 36 minutes at the 1 and 2 leaving only 24 minutes at the back up guard spots where both DDV and Hart have received minutes previously. Currently Kessler is just a limited role player which Ainge has not had a problem moving in the last 2 years without demanding a high return. He just moved Olynyk and a young cost-controlled Agbaji, who was a late lottery pick the season before, for a late first.

Maybe I’m higher on Kessler than you are but I think the difference between him and whoever the Knicks find on the scrap heap is significant.

My biggest issue is he locks in as an affordable long term solution who brings elite defensive play and makes the Knicks a more sustainable team financially.

His presence jeopardizes not only the 2025 and 2027 1sts but 2029 and 2031 as well.

I wouldn’t be happy if the Knicks acquired him in any scenario and I certainly wouldn’t help them get the deal over the hump.

[JayTWill]

Outside of core players the Knicks only have the Detroit 1st & 2nds to offer. I don’t think that moves the needle for Utah.

I do think the value of the Knicks picks go down considerably. They get a massive upgrade at their weakest position with a young cost controlled player. There’s no way around it.

For $40 million in cap space Brooklyn should be able to get assets of this quality, maybe even better and do so without devaluing the Knicks 1sts.

Once again I agree that you may not want to do this deal for cap space reasons but we will have to agree to disagree about the impact on the value of the Knicks' picks. Basically outside of Brunson going down for the season everything that could go wrong for the Knicks last year did go wrong and it still didn't have a significant effect on the Knicks' pick.

I can't imagine that the difference between Kessler and whoever the Knicks get to upgrade their center rotation would have a bigger effect and it still could be Kessler without Brooklyns' involvement or the Knicks trading a key core player. They have the lower valued "firsts" from Detroit and Washington, pick swaps available, second round picks along with some young players they drafted at the end of the first and beginning of the second round this year.

They also have McBride who i'm not sure how big of a role there will be available to him and not ready to call a core piece until I see how Thibs sets the rotation. Brunson and Bridges could both play 36 minutes at the 1 and 2 leaving only 24 minutes at the back up guard spots where both DDV and Hart have received minutes previously. Currently Kessler is just a limited role player which Ainge has not had a problem moving in the last 2 years without demanding a high return. He just moved Olynyk and a young cost-controlled Agbaji, who was a late lottery pick the season before, for a late first.

Maybe I’m higher on Kessler than you are but I think the difference between him and whoever the Knicks find on the scrap heap is significant.

My biggest issue is he locks in as an affordable long term solution who brings elite defensive play and makes the Knicks a more sustainable team financially.

His presence jeopardizes not only the 2025 and 2027 1sts but 2029 and 2031 as well.

I wouldn’t be happy if the Knicks acquired him in any scenario and I certainly wouldn’t help them get the deal over the hump.

Lets say the Knicks acquired Goga, who is currently the Magic's 3rd string center and was out of the rotation for the playoffs and may have just been retained so they did not lose him for nothing. I assume they would be open to trading him for draft assets and/or young cheap cost-controlled talent especially if Isaac can remain healthy. Do you honestly think there is a huge difference between a 23 year old Kessler and a 25 year old Goga in the role that would be available in New York? Goga can provide rim protection and rebound while possibly also being a better passer.

As far as talent Kessler would rank near the bottom of the Knicks rotation but his overall impact is unknown at the moment. The value of the Knicks pick especially in 2029, 2031 will be much more dependent on how someone like Brunson or possibly a re-signed Randle ages rather than a bench player or possibly the teams 5th best starter.

Ignoring the financial part of the trade, the Nets should definitely be willing to facilitate a Kessler to New York deal if they were able to get multiple draft assets for free. The financial part changes things but I feel like you are overstating the value of Kessler and the Knicks' difficulty to find a quality defensive center for the limited role on the team.

[Knickfan1982]

The 2025 Brooklyn 2nd was sent back to the Nets in the Mikal trade. Still not a deal-breaker?

Edit - Also the Knicks are above the first apron so they can't take in more money than they send out. I think Kessler makes 300k more than Bates-Diop

I think something more than the two "firsts" needs to come back ro replace the Brooklyn 2nd. Right on salaries, Simms could be added, perhaps going to Utah, as well.

The Knicks have this year's 1st round draft pick Pacome Dadiet, a 6'8 wing from France who I believe had a pre-draft work out for the Jazz and was the youngest player in the draft. He and his $1.8M could be added to the trade but i'm not sure if I would want to add him to both "firsts" going out though. They have a few random seconds but I assume the 2025 Nets' pick was appealing to you since they are expected to be bad next year.

They have the right Rokas Jokubaitis, a 23 year old Lithuanian point guard who may never play for the Knicks with their depth at the guard position and he just signed a deal to stay overseas.

I'm a bit unsure who I would use as salary filler in a Kessler deal. I'm kinda curious to see what Bates-Diop looks like even though I doubt he will get many minutes in the rotation but he did look good in San Antonio. Personally I would rather use Payne as salary filler but I don't think he can be traded until December 15th.

So what about Sims + Pacome + one of the "firsts" and maybe another random 2nd? I would prefer for the Knicks to keep the Detroit pick but it is negotiable.

How about no? I like Pacome's upside. We got Precious back and Sims. That should be enough to hold down the fort behind Mitchell for now and there are some solid depth bigs still available via free agency that we can get on the cheap. For instance, Mike Mucsala can eat up some minutes at the backup 5 while providing more shooting from non-traditional shooters spots.

[JayTWill]

I think something more than the two "firsts" needs to come back ro replace the Brooklyn 2nd. Right on salaries, Simms could be added, perhaps going to Utah, as well.

The Knicks have this year's 1st round draft pick Pacome Dadiet, a 6'8 wing from France who I believe had a pre-draft work out for the Jazz and was the youngest player in the draft. He and his $1.8M could be added to the trade but i'm not sure if I would want to add him to both "firsts" going out though. They have a few random seconds but I assume the 2025 Nets' pick was appealing to you since they are expected to be bad next year.

They have the right Rokas Jokubaitis, a 23 year old Lithuanian point guard who may never play for the Knicks with their depth at the guard position and he just signed a deal to stay overseas.

I'm a bit unsure who I would use as salary filler in a Kessler deal. I'm kinda curious to see what Bates-Diop looks like even though I doubt he will get many minutes in the rotation but he did look good in San Antonio. Personally I would rather use Payne as salary filler but I don't think he can be traded until December 15th.

So what about Sims + Pacome + one of the "firsts" and maybe another random 2nd? I would prefer for the Knicks to keep the Detroit pick but it is negotiable.

How about no? I like Pacome's upside. We got Precious back and Sims. That should be enough to hold down the fort behind Mitchell for now and there are some solid depth bigs still available via free agency that we can get on the cheap. For instance, Mike Mucsala can eat up some minutes at the backup 5 while providing more shooting from non-traditional shooters spots.

I'm happy to have Pacome as an end of bench player that could possibly be developed slowly in a similar way to how McBride was. The Ryan Arcidiacono level end of bench players that provided no future upside and couldn't contribute immediately when the team was short-handed frustrated me.

I can't pretend to have an idea of what Pacome's upside could be. He looks interesting from the limited amount I have seen of him but that is just a few youtube clips and summer league minutes. In the end I just don't see a pathway to playing time for him.

I don't know what position Pacome will eventually play but the Knicks currently have 6 players capable of giving them 30+ minutes at the 1-3 positions. Outside of maybe McBride all of them are in or entering their primes that should continue through the length of Pacome's rookie deal with possibly some slippage from Hart. The earliest he may be able to see the court is when DDV and Hart's contracts come off the books in 3 years but the Knicks are trying to win now.

So yeah, I would be willing to trade a young player taken at the end of the first round that 99% of Knicks fans did not know existed before they drafted him to fill a big hole in the current rotation. Mitch is a huge injury risk. Precious is fine as a situational player at the 4-5 but seeing as Thibs reduced his minutes to the teens/single digits by the end of the year and removed him from the rotation to start the playoffs I can't imagine Thibs wouldn't prefer a different center in the rotation. Sims is a good athlete but he leaves a lot to be desired as a basketball player. Thibs would have to have no other options to play someone like Mike Muscala at center with his lack of defense and rebounding. He barely even plays Randle at center.

[hugepatsfan]

So the Jazz are paying for 2 things here:

1) Free up cap space for next offseason

2) Open up time for their young players

Let's start with #1. What would their goal be with cap space? It would be either a) take on salary dumps for assets or b) trade for or sign good players into the cap space. Having cap space can help you trade for good players because you offer salary savings, but usually teams don't give up players that are THAT good just to save money. Having expiring filler like Collins and Clarkson wouldn't really be a huge deterrent to a trade acquisition vs. cap space, IMO. And in terms of signing someone in FA, UTA isn't the biggest FA definition anyway, but even if they do get players, expiring salary can be worked into S&Ts if need be.

Ultimately, I just don't think cap space vs. these expiring salaries is going to be a huge help to them adding talent next year. Especially not considering they're sacrificing assets for that cap space that could be used in the acquisition deals themselves. And if it frees them up to take on salary dumps, well that just cancels out with them having to give up the assets now. So for #1 above, I don't see a huge benefit.

For #2, that's in their own control. As someone else has mentioned, being blocked by Clarkson and/or Collins says as much about the young players as it does anything else. Those guys might be paid well, but neither should be blocking someone that's REALLY worth playing.