MPJ for Randle

[babyjax13]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

[Crymson]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

MPJ has his flaws, but this is Denver trading a younger player who fits better, is an elite shooter, and has multiple years left on his contract for a soon-to-be 30-year-old on an expiring deal who's a heavily on-ball player and is perennially shaky on catch-and-shoots. Jokic is Jokic, and the Nuggets are built around him. They won't want to bring in guy who needs the ball, let alone one who can't finish the open looks Jokic creates for him.

Randle definitely isn't a three-level scorer -- he's more like a one-level scorer, really -- and neither were Randolph or Gasol, who were a duo long ago in a very different game. He's the better player in a vacuum, but players don't play in a vacuum.

[babyjax13]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

MPJ has his flaws, but this is Denver trading a younger player who fits better, is an elite shooter, and has multiple years left on his contract for a soon-to-be 30-year-old on an expiring deal who's a heavily on-ball player and is perennially shaky on catch-and-shoots. Jokic is Jokic, and the Nuggets are built around him. They won't want to bring in guy who needs the ball, let alone one who can't finish the open looks Jokic creates for him.

Randle definitely isn't a three-level scorer -- he's more like a one-level scorer, really -- and neither were Randolph or Gasol, who were a duo long ago in a very different game.

I think the downside of Randle walking is pretty low for Denver [as in, if he walks they can pivot to creating cap space and building a new team around Jokic], but it does introduce the necessity to trade Aaron Gordon.

[JayTWill]

MPJ just seems like a very expensive specialist. I'm not sure I would want to give up any type of value for him or even have his contract on the Knicks' books. They currently have off-ball shooters including McBride and I feel like if they needed one they could find one much cheaper than MPJ. I'm also not ready to assume Bridges is ready for a more on-ball role when only showed he was capable of it for a few months after the trade from Phoenix before coming back down to earth this year.

[cgf]

Randle may be hard to integrate but he’s exactly what we need to take some of the creative burden off Brunson. Someone else that can get into the paint and force double teams that create open looks for all of our shooters.

[cgf]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

MPJ has his flaws, but this is Denver trading a younger player who fits better, is an elite shooter, and has multiple years left on his contract for a soon-to-be 30-year-old on an expiring deal who's a heavily on-ball player and is perennially shaky on catch-and-shoots. Jokic is Jokic, and the Nuggets are built around him. They won't want to bring in guy who needs the ball, let alone one who can't finish the open looks Jokic creates for him.

Randle definitely isn't a three-level scorer -- he's more like a one-level scorer, really -- and neither were Randolph or Gasol, who were a duo long ago in a very different game. He's the better player in a vacuum, but players don't play in a vacuum.

This is the second thread I’ve seen you making curious comments about Randle in. :-/

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Mpj a better 3rd option than Randle imo. His fit better too for Denver.

[jredsaz]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

I’m not a huge fan of Randle next to Joker and Gordon. I get the possible benefits in specific playoff matchups but Randles ball stopping probably hurts as bad (if not more) than the spot up shooting. For example, I think the Atlanta package is probably preferable if available. His performance with Serbia demonstrated that he can win with fit over skills.

I like it for the Knicks. MPJ might be over paid but he shoots the lights out. He would fit great in their rotation next season.

[babyjax13]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

I’m not a huge fan of Randle next to Joker and Gordon. I get the possible benefits in specific playoff matchups but Randles ball stopping probably hurts as bad (if not more) than the spot up shooting. For example, I think the Atlanta package is probably preferable if available. His performance with Serbia demonstrated that he can win with fit over skills.

I like it for the Knicks. MPJ might be over paid but he shoots the lights out. He would fit great in their rotation next season.

My thought was Gordon is probably easy to move to add a wing, but could be wrong.

[babyjax13]

Mpj a better 3rd option than Randle imo. His fit better too for Denver.

I think, ideally, Murray is your third option unless he is going nuclear.

[JayTWill]

I'm not sure about the fit of Randle and Jokic and I don't like the idea of the Knicks adding another expensive off-ball role player especially in Thibs' stagnant offense but both teams I believe are above the first apron.

MPJ makes $2.2 million more than Randle and McBride combined and they can't take in more salary than they send out. The Knicks would have to send out more salary to a 3rd team possibly leaving them 2 players below the minimum of 14.

[Crymson]

This is the second thread I’ve seen you making curious comments about Randle in. :-/

And?

If you think Randle would be a good fit next to Jokic, of all players, then make your case. Denver's offense revolves around Jokic either going one-on-one with his defender or attracting multiple coverage and kicking it out to a shooter. In the instances in which Jokic isn't doing that, Murray is attacking off the dribble instead. Where does Randle fit into that? What value is he going to provide when he's spotting up on the perimeter? How is he going to replace the contribution of an elite 6'10" perimeter shooter?

Players don't exist in a vacuum. Context is a key factor in value provided. Some guys can be plug-and-played into any system. Randle definitely isn't one of those.

Gordon had a pretty darned bad season as a shooter in 2023-2024, but at least he's an athletic cutter, a perpetual lob threat, and a high-caliber defender, none of which can be said about Randle.

I think the downside of Randle walking is pretty low for Denver [as in, if he walks they can pivot to creating cap space and building a new team around Jokic], but it does introduce the necessity to trade Aaron Gordon.

When was the last time you saw an organization build a contender with cap space? It's pretty key for contenders to keep the players they already have. Operating below the cap places a lot of limits on acquiring talent.

If Murray stays and gets anywhere near his current salary, they'd have only around $35 million in cap space anyway, even if Gordon were to walk too.

[Mavrelous]

Randle is an odd fit in most places, but he's a great fit in NY, don't see the fit in DEN at all.
I think DEN should shake it up by moving Murray, not MPJ.

[bkkrh]

So Denver trades a good role player that is on a pretty expensive contract, had major health concerns as a rookie and had now in his 6th season the first year where he didn't miss at least 20 games and a pick swap in 7 years for a player that made 2 All NBA teams and was a 3 time All Star in the last 4 seasons and is on a better contract plus a Point Guard that turns 24 in September, just had a few very impressive regular season and playoff games and is signed until 26/27 on a contract that could become the best non-rookie contract in the league if he continues on that level.

Why on earth would the Knicks do that?

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Mpj a better 3rd option than Randle imo. His fit better too for Denver.

I think, ideally, Murray is your third option unless he is going nuclear.

From a laker perspective, the Murray jokic pick and roll seems like guaranteed points lol

But i can see the trade vision now making Murray third option and Randle second. Not sure i add the first to make it happen though.

[louc1970]

I still like the idea of:
Nuggets send MPJ, Cancar
NOP sends Ingram, Hawkins

NOP gets size. Nuggets get off of MPJ’s contract.
Does either team owe a swap?

[louc1970]

DEN trades: Michael Porter Jr., 2031 DEN 1st swap (DEN receives lower of NYK/DEN 1st, NYK receives higher)
NYK trades: Julius Randle, Miles McBride

Generally: I don't think this is a perfect fit for either team, and Randle is admittedly the better player, but with a more difficult playstyle to easily integrate into every team.

DEN: Denver might decide Randle doesn't fit with Jokic, and I would understand that, though I think it could work pretty well (a la Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph) having two guys in the frontcourt who can make plays and are three level scoring threats (even if Randle is not a knockdown shooter). This also gets them an additional rotation player who has looked good with minutes and is capable of filling a starting role pretty admirably for at least a short time.

NYK: New York might not want to take the risk on MPJ and decide that they are perfectly happy with Randle. However, I think this gets them a player whose game is predicated on off-ball scoring, and they have a lot of guys whose best years have happened when the ball has been in their hands. MPJ should feast off Brunson, and this deal should also open up the secondary scoring role for Bridges (which I think he can do given how he scaled up in Brooklyn). They also get an unprotected swap far in the future that might give them more ammunition in another trade, or pay off as a high-variance asset.

MPJ has his flaws, but this is Denver trading a younger player who fits better, is an elite shooter, and has multiple years left on his contract for a soon-to-be 30-year-old on an expiring deal who's a heavily on-ball player and is perennially shaky on catch-and-shoots. Jokic is Jokic, and the Nuggets are built around him. They won't want to bring in guy who needs the ball, let alone one who can't finish the open looks Jokic creates for him.

Randle definitely isn't a three-level scorer -- he's more like a one-level scorer, really -- and neither were Randolph or Gasol, who were a duo long ago in a very different game.

I think the downside of Randle walking is pretty low for Denver [as in, if he walks they can pivot to creating cap space and building a new team around Jokic], but it does introduce the necessity to trade Aaron Gordon.

That was my first thought. Can Randle and Gordon co-exist? Can either defend quicker SF?

[cgf]

This is the second thread I’ve seen you making curious comments about Randle in. :-/

And?

If you think Randle would be a good fit next to Jokic, of all players, then make your case. Denver's offense revolves around Jokic either going one-on-one with his defender or attracting multiple coverage and kicking it out to a shooter. In the instances in which Jokic isn't doing that, Murray is attacking off the dribble instead. Where does Randle fit into that? What value is he going to provide when he's spotting up on the perimeter? How is he going to replace the contribution of an elite 6'10" perimeter shooter?

Players don't exist in a vacuum. Context is a key factor in value provided. Some guys can be plug-and-played into any system. Randle definitely isn't one of those.

Gordon had a pretty darned bad season as a shooter in 2023-2024, but at least he's an athletic cutter, a perpetual lob threat, and a high-caliber defender, none of which can be said about Randle.

I think the downside of Randle walking is pretty low for Denver [as in, if he walks they can pivot to creating cap space and building a new team around Jokic], but it does introduce the necessity to trade Aaron Gordon.

When was the last time you saw an organization build a contender with cap space? It's pretty key for contenders to keep the players they already have. Operating below the cap places a lot of limits on acquiring talent.

If Murray stays and gets anywhere near his current salary, they'd have only around $35 million in cap space anyway, even if Gordon were to walk too.

I dunno what I think about a Jokic - Randle front court.

Would just be an insane amount of playmaking from your bigs so the other nuggets would need to start taking a lot more 3s than they currently do because of all of the double teams downlow

…and the idea of Joker playing with someone who drew double teams like Julius & could feed him cutting to the hoop is an exciting thought.

But this trade doesn’t make sense for NY so the fit with Denver is moot.


I just find it weird how people on here sometimes talk about Julius. It’s so wildly different from what I’ve seen since he first left LA for NOLA.

Like when folks call him a ballstopper. That’s just not accurate at all and I linked you too the numbers that show that in the other thread…unless we’re going to call Bam & Mikal ball stoppers too…

Or when folks say he’s a poor C&S guy even though it’s his off the dribble 3s that he hits at a poor clip, whereas he’s a distinctly average C&S guy…who we have seen pull elite defenders out to the perimeter in the playoffs.

Hell aren’t you the one who tried to claim that Brunson did better after Randle got hurt despite his efficiency falling hard and him getting worn down by the excessive workload?

It’s just so weird the things people say to try to discredit him. There’s real flaws to his game but he’s just not the player his detractors make him out to be

[louc1970]

Randle is an odd fit in most places, but he's a great fit in NY, don't see the fit in DEN at all.
I think DEN should shake it up by moving Murray, not MPJ.

With the thought of Murray being moved:

Denver trades: Murray, MPJ, filler
Denver receives: Ingram, Garland
Garland and Ingram come in as Garland is a better than average shooter. He can play off of Jokic. Ingram can be the SF next to Gordon. If it doesn’t work, Ingram walks (S&T) and Holmes comes in next year..

NOP trades Ingram
NOP receives MPJ
NOP gets size. Williamson has a catch a shoot partner. No need to worry about the extension for Ingram.

Cleveland trades Garland
Cleveland receives Murray
PG for PG. Murray has size to play with Mitchell. Improved defense.

[gswhoops]

Yeah I don't see the fit for Randle in Denver. You're not going to run the ball through him in the post when you have Jokic - that much is self-evident. And if you're relegating him to a C&S 3pt guy...MPJ is much, much better in that role.

Conversely I actually see him as a good fit with this current NY team, who needs someone to draw attention off Brunson on offense.