Bulls/Pistons

[leo921]

Bulls - Lavine
Pistons - Hardaway/Fourneir

Bulls get 35m in expiring's, combined with Ball's 21m would help us with our cap space with 56m falling off the cap.
White would get to start and continuing to improve and get more consistent. We can focus on our younger group and
get a higher pick and start building for the future.

Pistons want to start improving and at least start moving towards the playoffs.
A lineup of Cade/Lavine/Thompson/Harris/Duren would give Cade support with Shooting,
scoring and defense. Would also have a solid bench of Sasser/Ivey/Holland/Reed/Stewart

[Kazuya10]

I guess I don't mind it for the Bulls. I am not thrilled though. I would be more inclined if a pick was involved. Say what you want about Lavine, but he is a Legit 22+, 5 and 5 player. Its just that his contract is horrific.

Ivey and Fourneir would be better IMO

Would the Pistons do either? i doubt it, not enough balls to go round.

[giberish]

Hasn't Fournier already been waived as his contract was non-guaranteed?

[xdrta+]

Hasn't Fournier already been waived as his contract was non-guaranteed?

Pistons declined his team option last month. He's a FA.

[Billl]

That's missing at least 1 first heading to detroit. Lavine is a negative value contract right now.

And fournier was waved.

[Snakebites]

If the Pistons were willing to do this it would have happened.

It appears Lavine may have saved the Pistons from themselves by opting into surgery to scare us off during the season. I don’t know if that’s actually true but it’s been speculated.

So yeah, we won’t be taking on an albatross contract from a no defense volume scorer who has a severe recent injury and, to cap it off, may very well really really not want to be here. We certainly wouldn’t do it for free like this.

The Bulls best play at this point is just to keep him.

[chrbal]

Bulls - Lavine
Pistons - Hardaway/Fourneir

Bulls get 35m in expiring's, combined with Ball's 21m would help us with our cap space with 56m falling off the cap.
White would get to start and continuing to improve and get more consistent. We can focus on our younger group and
get a higher pick and start building for the future.

Pistons want to start improving and at least start moving towards the playoffs.
A lineup of Cade/Lavine/Thompson/Harris/Duren would give Cade support with Shooting,
scoring and defense. Would also have a solid bench of Sasser/Ivey/Holland/Reed/Stewart

Allegedly Troy weaver was ready to go scorched earth on the Pistons and trade for Zach. The rumor is that Zach opted for surgery rather than get traded to Detroit. Detroit declined Evans option and he’s a free agent. If this trade was actually possible, Detroit would need at least a first coming back

[ChettheJet]

With Founier out and replaced by Ivey it would be good for the Bulls and given DET what the new and no doubt impatient owner wants. The same negative contract is all most people can find fault with Lavine as if anybody in the league that got a big contract doesn't look like a negative if they're being traded. There's always that chance that Lavine could show up in October healthy and pile up points. The notion that teams want to see Lavine play 30 games, with good healthy and looking good to trade for him ignores the fact that his value would go up at that point and ignores that in game 34 , 4th with hiss new team, he could get injured and miss the rest of the season.

some people have to just be clueless the see the Bulls as rebuilding, retooling or just rehabbing and think they're going to give up any more picks to get rid of Lavine when they've moved 2 for Vucevic and one for DeRozan, all in the lottery, in the past 7 years. I think they may have figured out that you need picks to change your roster

[Billl]

With Founier out and replaced by Ivey it would be good for the Bulls and given DET what the new and no doubt impatient owner wants. The same negative contract is all most people can find fault with Lavine as if anybody in the league that got a big contract doesn't look like a negative if they're being traded. There's always that chance that Lavine could show up in October healthy and pile up points. The notion that teams want to see Lavine play 30 games, with good healthy and looking good to trade for him ignores the fact that his value would go up at that point and ignores that in game 34 , 4th with hiss new team, he could get injured and miss the rest of the season.

some people have to just be clueless the see the Bulls as rebuilding, retooling or just rehabbing and think they're going to give up any more picks to get rid of Lavine when they've moved 2 for Vucevic and one for DeRozan, all in the lottery, in the past 7 years. I think they may have figured out that you need picks to change your roster

Just because the bulls are rebuilding doesn't mean other teams are going to take their bad contracts for free. And they certainly aren't giving up high upside young players for free. You can think the bulls shouldn't give up picks just to get out of lavine's contract, but that just means you are stuck with him.

And no, not everyone with a big contract is viewed as a negative. Most players getting paid that type of money are high end all-stars that would bring back an amazing haul. And no, Lavine's trade value isn't going to soar if he plays 30 games. The bulls couldn't get anything positive for him BEFORE he shut it down last year either.

[chrbal]

With Founier out and replaced by Ivey it would be good for the Bulls and given DET what the new and no doubt impatient owner wants. The same negative contract is all most people can find fault with Lavine as if anybody in the league that got a big contract doesn't look like a negative if they're being traded. There's always that chance that Lavine could show up in October healthy and pile up points. The notion that teams want to see Lavine play 30 games, with good healthy and looking good to trade for him ignores the fact that his value would go up at that point and ignores that in game 34 , 4th with hiss new team, he could get injured and miss the rest of the season.

some people have to just be clueless the see the Bulls as rebuilding, retooling or just rehabbing and think they're going to give up any more picks to get rid of Lavine when they've moved 2 for Vucevic and one for DeRozan, all in the lottery, in the past 7 years. I think they may have figured out that you need picks to change your roster

Ok, for Detroit. The Pistons just gave Cade a max extension and one of Detroits biggest issues is availability and Zach often misses games.

There’s the fact that he elected surgery over getting traded to Detroit around the deadline (rumor around deadline).

Zach is better off as a number one, Cade is better off as a number one.

It’s just a bad fit for Zach in Detroit.

[Mr Peanut]

Zach LaVine has the worst win percentage of active NBA players who have played 500+ games.

Zach LaVine is owed 138M over the next 3 seasons, and has chronic injury problems.

Those two sentences together should make him essentially untradeable without a ton of assets thrown in.

[theBigLip]

I do think THJ will be a valuable asset to move at the trade deadline. But not for Lavine.

[Snakebites]

With Founier out and replaced by Ivey it would be good for the Bulls and given DET what the new and no doubt impatient owner wants. The same negative contract is all most people can find fault with Lavine as if anybody in the league that got a big contract doesn't look like a negative if they're being traded. There's always that chance that Lavine could show up in October healthy and pile up points. The notion that teams want to see Lavine play 30 games, with good healthy and looking good to trade for him ignores the fact that his value would go up at that point and ignores that in game 34 , 4th with hiss new team, he could get injured and miss the rest of the season.

some people have to just be clueless the see the Bulls as rebuilding, retooling or just rehabbing and think they're going to give up any more picks to get rid of Lavine when they've moved 2 for Vucevic and one for DeRozan, all in the lottery, in the past 7 years. I think they may have figured out that you need picks to change your roster

Yeah, I totally get that you'd want an even better deal, but simply giving expirings for Lavine already way too rich a deal for the Pistons.

You're certainly welcome to have hope that he plays well and recoups some value, but you can't expect other teams to value him based on that hope. That's the hope of a fan, it's not something another team is going to partake in.

And that's coming from the fan of a team who over many years has hoped various players will either get healthy or figure it out. Hope doesn't equal value. It just doesn't.

I DO think that at this point the value of Lavine is negative to the point where the Bulls are better off just keeping him. The Pistons would want assets back to take on that contract- I think any team would. And I don't think the Bulls should do that.

[drosestruts]

I'm a big - where there's smoke there's fire guy, and I thought the Zach to Detroit rumors during the season were probably pretty real. I initially thought Detroit would simply re-visit the idea come Summer, but then made all sorts of changes to their front office and coaching staff so it's basically a whole new org over there which I believe officially killed any chance of that getting picked back up.

It's hard for me to even think of a trade that makes sense now - at this point I think the Bulls, right or wrong, would move Zach for basically a salary dump.

Maybe something like Hardway and Stewart for LaVine. I believe Detroit is far enough under the cap for that to work, but again - I have no read on the direction the new front office there wants to go.

I do believe Zach will be back to his usual all-star scoring and efficiency this year. I also believe that likely has more value to contending team with better 1A type players in place - but those team rarely have contracts to trade for someone on a LaVine sized contract.

The Zach LaVine paradox - paid like a top guy, isn't a top guy, while still being a terrific scorer. Bad teams can put together packages for him, but bad team don't want him, good teams struggle to put together a package big enough to take on his salary without creating additional holes on their roster.

[Billl]

I'm a big - where there's smoke there's fire guy, and I thought the Zach to Detroit rumors during the season were probably pretty real. I initially thought Detroit would simply re-visit the idea come Summer, but then made all sorts of changes to their front office and coaching staff so it's basically a whole new org over there which I believe officially killed any chance of that getting picked back up.

It's hard for me to even think of a trade that makes sense now - at this point I think the Bulls, right or wrong, would move Zach for basically a salary dump.

Maybe something like Hardway and Stewart for LaVine. I believe Detroit is far enough under the cap for that to work, but again - I have no read on the direction the new front office there wants to go.

I do believe Zach will be back to his usual all-star scoring and efficiency this year. I also believe that likely has more value to contending team with better 1A type players in place - but those team rarely have contracts to trade for someone on a LaVine sized contract.

The Zach LaVine paradox - paid like a top guy, isn't a top guy, while still being a terrific scorer. Bad teams can put together packages for him, but bad team don't want him, good teams struggle to put together a package big enough to take on his salary without creating additional holes on their roster.

Yep, that's the issue. Especially in this new cap era and especially for guys that miss a lot of game. It's the same thing with brandon ingram. It's not a matter of being able to put up stats, it's a matter of being able to build a championship level team with that type of contract on the books. You would need some real bargain players filling out other key roles on the roster. And that part has gotten a lot harder as well with the shorter contracts.

[Crymson]

I'm a big - where there's smoke there's fire guy, and I thought the Zach to Detroit rumors during the season were probably pretty real. I initially thought Detroit would simply re-visit the idea come Summer, but then made all sorts of changes to their front office and coaching staff so it's basically a whole new org over there which I believe officially killed any chance of that getting picked back up.

I'm not sure Weaver would have been given the OK to make such a major trade, given that hiring a PoBO was almost certainly on the owner's agenda already and Weaver was going to end up being demoted by default in terms of his executive decision-making power even if he were kept in his position. He was more or less a lame duck by that point.

It's hard for me to even think of a trade that makes sense now - at this point I think the Bulls, right or wrong, would move Zach for basically a salary dump.

They would, but we've heard that no team will take him without draft capital attached.

Maybe something like Hardway and Stewart for LaVine. I believe Detroit is far enough under the cap for that to work, but again - I have no read on the direction the new front office there wants to go.

Not happening. LaVine has negative value. Hardaway doesn't really have trade value himself, but Stewart certainly does. The Bulls would be looking at attaching multiple future 1sts, and even that might not get it done. LaVine is owed about $150 million (counting his trade kicker) -- the price to move off that contract would be substantial.

I do believe Zach will be back to his usual all-star scoring and efficiency this year. I also believe that likely has more value to contending team with better 1A type players in place - but those team rarely have contracts to trade for someone on a LaVine sized contract.

The Zach LaVine paradox - paid like a top guy, isn't a top guy, while still being a terrific scorer. Bad teams can put together packages for him, but bad team don't want him, good teams struggle to put together a package big enough to take on his salary without creating additional holes on their roster.

Even contenders didn't want LaVine last season. Yes, he's a talented scorer. But he's also selfish, somewhat disinterested when he isn't on the ball, a not altogether willing passer, a poor defender, and, overall, is not the most winning of players. Also very importantly, he's highly injury prone. Beyond the very real implications of allocating so much cap space to a player who may or may not be consistently available to play -- it's not uncommon for repeated lower-body injuries to compound in terms of frequency -- he's a very athleticism-dependent player who's nearing the age of athletic decline, has already lost some of his athleticism due to his injuries, and may well lose more if they continue.

It's for good reason that basically nobody was interested in him last season despite him being less than one year removed from an efficient 25 PPG season.

[Crymson]

I guess I don't mind it for the Bulls. I am not thrilled though. I would be more inclined if a pick was involved. Say what you want about Lavine, but he is a Legit 22+, 5 and 5 player. Its just that his contract is horrific.

Ivey and Fourneir would be better IMO

Would the Pistons do either? i doubt it, not enough balls to go round.

Even if this were possible -- it isn't, with Fournier already off the roster -- it would never happen. The Bulls FO would, by all accounts, love to simply get off LaVine's contract. From what we've heard, no team would consider it even with just expiring salary going the other way unless the Bulls were to include an unprotected future 1st. The probability of a team not only demanding no draft capital but even sending a solid prospect in exchange for LaVine's $150 million (counting trade kicker) minus-value contract is as close to zero as is practically possible.

[zeebneeb]

Unless a team gets desperate, the Bulls are going to have to eat the contract, and wait until its an expiring contract.

Makes no sense to send out future firsts, when they are rebuilding.

The real question is what team can you get a deal done with, without sending out picks, and not taking back a different bad contract?

I mean, good luck.

[theBigLip]

As others have said, Lavine is negative. Bulls need to keep him, hope he stays healthy, and try again at the trade deadline. Every month that goes by that contract is shorter, and also gets smaller year to year when compared to the max contracts w the rising salary cap. At some point he will be traded, but doing it now means attaching significant assets to make it happen.