RealGM

So a Kessler for Hawkins trade would get Pelicans a starting(ish) level Center with rim protection, and also get them juuuust under the luxury tax.

Consensus probably has Hawkins as less valuable than Kessler at this point, though hopefully he still has some prospect value to some teams out there.

Let's hear some ideas for what it would take for Ainge/ Jazz to make that swap. Which pick/ protections? Including Missi or Makovic? A third team for Hawkins for different assets to Jazz?

I think this is a very real trade possibility.

Pels won't want to pay tax and they just got Green who plays the same role as Hawkins.

I think the trade might need a swap option to the Jazz

zimpy27 wrote:I think this is a very real trade possibility.

Pels won't want to pay tax and they just got Green who plays the same role as Hawkins.

I think the trade might need a swap option to the Jazz

what does a swap do? Pels likely to be much better than the Jazz, so the Jazz would never use it. I have Kessler much bigger impact on the floor than Hawkins. think the Pels definitely need to add something there

tiderulz wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:I think this is a very real trade possibility.

Pels won't want to pay tax and they just got Green who plays the same role as Hawkins.

I think the trade might need a swap option to the Jazz

what does a swap do? Pels likely to be much better than the Jazz, so the Jazz would never use it. I have Kessler much bigger impact on the floor than Hawkins. think the Pels definitely need to add something there

Was thinking a protected swap in 2027 that can be made with Jazz, Cavs, Minny FRPs.

I don't get the board's obsession with Kessler, he can't earn a starting spot on a bad team and plays one of the easiest positions to fill, he's definitely useful for the right price but that isn't high upside picks. I might do a lottery protected pick for him plus a couple second rounders, but that's about as far as I'd go.

wemby wrote:I don't get the board's obsession with Kessler, he can't earn a starting spot on a bad team and plays one of the easiest positions to fill, he's definitely useful for the right price but that isn't high upside picks. I might do a lottery protected pick for him plus a couple second rounders, but that's about as far as I'd go.

Seriously. Why am I paying a premium for a guy that can’t win the starting job for a 30 win team 2 straight seasons?

balsamic_ducks wrote:

wemby wrote:I don't get the board's obsession with Kessler, he can't earn a starting spot on a bad team and plays one of the easiest positions to fill, he's definitely useful for the right price but that isn't high upside picks. I might do a lottery protected pick for him plus a couple second rounders, but that's about as far as I'd go.

Seriously. Why am I paying a premium for a guy that can’t win the starting job for a 30 win team 2 straight seasons?

Well, he's clearly the best center on the team (by a massive margin) but we have a lot of guys who don't create with the ball and we can't have three of them on the court at the same time. The easiest way to fix this, because of our glut of guards, is to start Collins at center to create ball movement on the perimeter because he can shoot and play Kessler in lineups with our combo-guards.

The issue with this trade is that we don't need another guard. I think straight across it is fair because I'm pretty confident that Hawkins is going to be a valuable rotation piece. If we have Sexton and/or Clarkson trades lined up, I'm fine with it as-is, or if we can get a similar caliber prospect that is a forward (preferably a 3), then I'd also be in. Same goes with just getting a real first round pick and *maybe* a little extra (some 2nds(?)), etc. etc.

I have Hawkins worth more, mostly because of the extra cheap year. Tho this swap solves a big need for the Pel's so i can see them considering it. Hawkins doesnt do much for UTA with the multiple guard prospects they already have, so i can see them declining too

Kessler is serviceable at center. Not good but better than nothing.
Hawkins might become a real player. Seems like Utah adds or call it even since NO needs a center.

Do Utah need Hawkins? Don't they have Keyonte George as a similar player? I'd like to bring on Kessler for Hawkins but no desire to add a future 1st to make it happen.

babyjax13 wrote:The issue with this trade is that we don't need another guard. I think straight across it is fair because I'm pretty confident that Hawkins is going to be a valuable rotation piece. If we have Sexton and/or Clarkson trades lined up, I'm fine with it as-is, or if we can get a similar caliber prospect that is a forward (preferably a 3), then I'd also be in. Same goes with just getting a real first round pick and *maybe* a little extra (some 2nds(?)), etc. etc.

PG: George | Sexton | Collier
SG: Hawkins | Clarkson | Svi
SF: Cody | Juzang | Brice
PF: Collins | Hendricks | Sane
C : Lauri | Filipowski | Eubanks

Wouldn't this be the squad? Or something like this?

Seems to fit fine, Utah has Collins, Lauri, Hendricks, Filipowski, Eubanks as PF or C players. Bigs are a little small but that's a page out of the OKC book of tanking "How to be bad with star level players: lack rim protection and rebounding".

zimpy27 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:The issue with this trade is that we don't need another guard. I think straight across it is fair because I'm pretty confident that Hawkins is going to be a valuable rotation piece. If we have Sexton and/or Clarkson trades lined up, I'm fine with it as-is, or if we can get a similar caliber prospect that is a forward (preferably a 3), then I'd also be in. Same goes with just getting a real first round pick and *maybe* a little extra (some 2nds(?)), etc. etc.

PG: George | Sexton | Collier
SG: Hawkins | Clarkson | Svi
SF: Cody | Juzang | Brice
PF: Collins | Hendricks | Sane
C : Lauri | Filipowski | Eubanks

Wouldn't this be the squad? Or something like this?

Seems to fit fine, Utah has Collins, Lauri, Hendricks, Filipowski, Eubanks as PF or C players. Bigs are a little small but that's a page out of the OKC book of tanking "How to be bad with star level players: lack rim protection and rebounding".

I'd imagine Sexton would start at shooting guard because he's by far the best guard on the team. Juzang can't play 3 at all, Sensabaugh is primarily a 2, Lauri shouldn't play center, etc. There is a massive minutes squeeze in the backcourt and I'm not certain Hawkins woupd come out as a starter or even a significant roleplayer in the rotation.

Walker was the 3rd best rookie of his class according to ROY voting. Seems some people have decided to ignore that based on what they perceive as a step-back last year.

I'm really not that concerned about last year. Ainge was committed to rehabbing Collins' trade value and like bjax said, there were roster limitations involved. Utah wasn't even trying to win in the 2nd half of the season, so no point in reading too much into playing time then.

Trading Walker now would be trading low IMO. Utah should just keep him.

babyjax13 wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:The issue with this trade is that we don't need another guard. I think straight across it is fair because I'm pretty confident that Hawkins is going to be a valuable rotation piece. If we have Sexton and/or Clarkson trades lined up, I'm fine with it as-is, or if we can get a similar caliber prospect that is a forward (preferably a 3), then I'd also be in. Same goes with just getting a real first round pick and *maybe* a little extra (some 2nds(?)), etc. etc.

PG: George | Sexton | Collier
SG: Hawkins | Clarkson | Svi
SF: Cody | Juzang | Brice
PF: Collins | Hendricks | Sane
C : Lauri | Filipowski | Eubanks

Wouldn't this be the squad? Or something like this?

Seems to fit fine, Utah has Collins, Lauri, Hendricks, Filipowski, Eubanks as PF or C players. Bigs are a little small but that's a page out of the OKC book of tanking "How to be bad with star level players: lack rim protection and rebounding".

I'd imagine Sexton would start at shooting guard because he's by far the best guard on the team. Juzang can't play 3 at all, Sensabaugh is primarily a 2, Lauri shouldn't play center, etc. There is a massive minutes squeeze in the backcourt and I'm not certain Hawkins woupd come out as a starter or even a significant roleplayer in the rotation.

Hawkins would be your best SG. Sexton might start over George but I doubt it.

Juzang just played at SF mostly with this Jazz last season. Brice can play SF or SG.

zimpy27 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:
PG: George | Sexton | Collier
SG: Hawkins | Clarkson | Svi
SF: Cody | Juzang | Brice
PF: Collins | Hendricks | Sane
C : Lauri | Filipowski | Eubanks

Wouldn't this be the squad? Or something like this?

Seems to fit fine, Utah has Collins, Lauri, Hendricks, Filipowski, Eubanks as PF or C players. Bigs are a little small but that's a page out of the OKC book of tanking "How to be bad with star level players: lack rim protection and rebounding".

I'd imagine Sexton would start at shooting guard because he's by far the best guard on the team. Juzang can't play 3 at all, Sensabaugh is primarily a 2, Lauri shouldn't play center, etc. There is a massive minutes squeeze in the backcourt and I'm not certain Hawkins woupd come out as a starter or even a significant roleplayer in the rotation.

Hawkins would be your best SG. Sexton might start over George but I doubt it.

Juzang just played at SF mostly with this Jazz last season. Brice can play SF or SG.

No, Sexton would be our best shooting guard, and I'm not sure Hawkins is clearly better than other guys he'd be competing with for minutes at 2, especially since we are so combo-guard heavy (Clarkson, George, Sexton ... we don't really know what we have in Sensabaugh, but he flashed some scoring ability, Juzang is a year older than Hawkins but was statistically a bit better last year).

Juzang played a ton in 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups because he primarily played in the last half of the season. He's a thin shooting guard.

babyjax13 wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:I'd imagine Sexton would start at shooting guard because he's by far the best guard on the team. Juzang can't play 3 at all, Sensabaugh is primarily a 2, Lauri shouldn't play center, etc. There is a massive minutes squeeze in the backcourt and I'm not certain Hawkins woupd come out as a starter or even a significant roleplayer in the rotation.

Hawkins would be your best SG. Sexton might start over George but I doubt it.

Juzang just played at SF mostly with this Jazz last season. Brice can play SF or SG.

No, Sexton would be our best shooting guard, and I'm not sure Hawkins is clearly better than other guys he'd be competing with for minutes at 2, especially since we are so combo-guard heavy (Clarkson, George, Sexton ... we don't really know what we have in Sensabaugh, but he flashed some scoring ability, Juzang is a year older than Hawkins but was statistically a bit better last year).

Juzang played a ton in 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups because he primarily played in the last half of the season. He's a thin shooting guard.

Well I think Sexton is a PG. He led you in Assists, he's played PG most his career, can really only defend 1s, etc.

If you are trying to win Sexton+Hawkins start I think, if you're trying to get young guys some run then George+Hawkins would start I'd imagine.

Juzang played 300 minutes last year..

zimpy27 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:
Hawkins would be your best SG. Sexton might start over George but I doubt it.

Juzang just played at SF mostly with this Jazz last season. Brice can play SF or SG.

No, Sexton would be our best shooting guard, and I'm not sure Hawkins is clearly better than other guys he'd be competing with for minutes at 2, especially since we are so combo-guard heavy (Clarkson, George, Sexton ... we don't really know what we have in Sensabaugh, but he flashed some scoring ability, Juzang is a year older than Hawkins but was statistically a bit better last year).

Juzang played a ton in 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups because he primarily played in the last half of the season. He's a thin shooting guard.

Well I think Sexton is a PG. He led you in Assists, he's played PG most his career, can really only defend 1s, etc.

If you are trying to win Sexton+Hawkins start I think, if you're trying to get young guys some run then George+Hawkins would start I'd imagine.

Juzang played 300 minutes last year..

Sexton *can play* point guard, but I anticipate the starters in the backcourt are Sexton and George because they are our two best players at the 1/2 (unless Clarkson's percentages go back up - but I suspect that will only happen as a bench player). RE: Juzang only playing in 20 games, sure, but he was reasonably good in those minutes and had better percentages than Hawkins. Now, I think Hawkins has more upside, but he might not be a better player right now.

zimpy27 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:
Hawkins would be your best SG. Sexton might start over George but I doubt it.

Juzang just played at SF mostly with this Jazz last season. Brice can play SF or SG.

No, Sexton would be our best shooting guard, and I'm not sure Hawkins is clearly better than other guys he'd be competing with for minutes at 2, especially since we are so combo-guard heavy (Clarkson, George, Sexton ... we don't really know what we have in Sensabaugh, but he flashed some scoring ability, Juzang is a year older than Hawkins but was statistically a bit better last year).

Juzang played a ton in 3 and sometimes 4 guard lineups because he primarily played in the last half of the season. He's a thin shooting guard.

Well I think Sexton is a PG. He led you in Assists, he's played PG most his career, can really only defend 1s, etc.

If you are trying to win Sexton+Hawkins start I think, if you're trying to get young guys some run then George+Hawkins would start I'd imagine.

Juzang played 300 minutes last year..

Also, Sexton has had a pretty even split with us. You shouldn't rely on BBref % breakdowns. Last year Sexton's most common two man combinations with other guards were Sexton and George (727 minutes), Sexton and Dunn (726 minutes), and Clarkson and Sexton (533 minutes). Those three combinations probably have a little overlap, but they likely cover at least 85% his 2075 minutes played.

Zero interest in moving Kessler if Hawkins is the return.