Thybulle and Williams to SAC

[babyjax13]

POR trades: Matisse Thybulle, Robert Williams (~23.5 million)
SAC trades: Kevin Huerter, Jalen McDaniels, Colby Jones, cash [enough to buy a second round from a 3rd team if POR wants one] (~23.7 million)

Portland gets a player drafted in the [edit: early second] round in 2023 (Jones) and gets a look at some reasonably young rotation players. If they don't feel like long-term pieces they should be relatively moveable.

Sacramento trades for some defense and improves their center depth behind Sabonis. Williams has always been a + passer relative to position, so while he is no Sabonis, he still offers some of that playmaking at the 5.

[JRoy]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

[babyjax13]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

All you are going to get is seconds. I have Sacramento sending cash that could be routed to a third team for seconds, and both Huerter and Jones should be able to return seconds. A direct trade with these guys might be very hard because Williams has injury concerns and Thybulle is pretty poor on offense. Sacramento has the right pieces to maximize them, and I think the value is here.

[chrbal]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

I’m not saying the trade is perfect, but what do you think you can actually get for those two right now?

[QMemphis]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

I get what you feel, but at most you will get 4 2nds for them both. They may not even be realistic given their contracts and production.

[JRoy]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

I get what you feel, but at most you will get 4 2nds for them both. They may not even be realistic given their contracts and production.

You may be right.

That would be better than OP.

[JRoy]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

All you are going to get is seconds. I have Sacramento sending cash that could be routed to a third team for seconds, and both Huerter and Jones should be able to return seconds. A direct trade with these guys might be very hard because Williams has injury concerns and Thybulle is pretty poor on offense. Sacramento has the right pieces to maximize them, and I think the value is here.

You may be right.

Let’s see the deal where those SRP go to POR instead of players we have zero interest in acquiring.

[JRoy]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

I’m not saying the trade is perfect, but what do you think you can actually get for those two right now?

Little.

Better to rehab their value and seek a better return than another backup sg and the crappy mcdaniels.

[brackdan70]

POR trades: Matisse Thybulle, Robert Williams (~23.5 million)
SAC trades: Kevin Huerter, Jalen McDaniels, Colby Jones, cash [enough to buy a second round from a 3rd team if POR wants one] (~23.7 million)

Portland gets a player drafted in the first round in 2023 (Jones) and gets a look at some reasonably young rotation players. If they don't feel like long-term pieces they should be relatively moveable.

Sacramento trades for some defense and improves their center depth behind Sabonis. Williams has always been a + passer relative to position, so while he is no Sabonis, he still offers some of that playmaking at the 5.

Jones was drafted 34th and doesn’t look like a first round prospect.
I don’t like this for Portland, they can find better value for that package and get a first round pick back.
If Sac adds a first then I could see it.

[babyjax13]

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

All you are going to get is seconds. I have Sacramento sending cash that could be routed to a third team for seconds, and both Huerter and Jones should be able to return seconds. A direct trade with these guys might be very hard because Williams has injury concerns and Thybulle is pretty poor on offense. Sacramento has the right pieces to maximize them, and I think the value is here.

You may be right.

Let’s see the deal where those SRP go to POR instead of players we have zero interest in acquiring.

I do think that Colby Jones is a nice fit, but I'll think about third teams!

[babyjax13]

POR trades: Matisse Thybulle, Robert Williams (~23.5 million)
SAC trades: Kevin Huerter, Jalen McDaniels, Colby Jones, cash [enough to buy a second round from a 3rd team if POR wants one] (~23.7 million)

Portland gets a player drafted in the first round in 2023 (Jones) and gets a look at some reasonably young rotation players. If they don't feel like long-term pieces they should be relatively moveable.

Sacramento trades for some defense and improves their center depth behind Sabonis. Williams has always been a + passer relative to position, so while he is no Sabonis, he still offers some of that playmaking at the 5.

Jones was drafted 34th and doesn’t look like a first round prospect.
I don’t like this for Portland, they can find better value for that package and get a first round pick back.
If Sac adds a first then I could see it.

I can't imagine a team sending a first for Williams and/or Thybulle, that would be completely irresponsible, IMO.

[JRoy]

All you are going to get is seconds. I have Sacramento sending cash that could be routed to a third team for seconds, and both Huerter and Jones should be able to return seconds. A direct trade with these guys might be very hard because Williams has injury concerns and Thybulle is pretty poor on offense. Sacramento has the right pieces to maximize them, and I think the value is here.

You may be right.

Let’s see the deal where those SRP go to POR instead of players we have zero interest in acquiring.

I do think that Colby Jones is a nice fit, but I'll think about third teams!

I don’t think another backup sg solves any of PORs many problems.

[brackdan70]

POR trades: Matisse Thybulle, Robert Williams (~23.5 million)
SAC trades: Kevin Huerter, Jalen McDaniels, Colby Jones, cash [enough to buy a second round from a 3rd team if POR wants one] (~23.7 million)

Portland gets a player drafted in the first round in 2023 (Jones) and gets a look at some reasonably young rotation players. If they don't feel like long-term pieces they should be relatively moveable.

Sacramento trades for some defense and improves their center depth behind Sabonis. Williams has always been a + passer relative to position, so while he is no Sabonis, he still offers some of that playmaking at the 5.

Jones was drafted 34th and doesn’t look like a first round prospect.
I don’t like this for Portland, they can find better value for that package and get a first round pick back.
If Sac adds a first then I could see it.

I can't imagine a team sending a first for Williams and/or Thybulle, that would be completely irresponsible, IMO.

I get that POV based on Williams injury history, but when he is right he is a game changer. I agree it would be a gamble and potentially irresponsible but if I am Portland is rather keep him if I am not getting a first or a player with solid upside. Non of the dudes you listed would do it for me.

[babyjax13]

Jones was drafted 34th and doesn’t look like a first round prospect.
I don’t like this for Portland, they can find better value for that package and get a first round pick back.
If Sac adds a first then I could see it.

I can't imagine a team sending a first for Williams and/or Thybulle, that would be completely irresponsible, IMO.

I get that POV based on Williams injury history, but when he is right he is a game changer. I agree it would be a gamble and potentially irresponsible but if I am Portland is rather keep him if I am not getting a first or a player with solid upside. Non of the dudes you listed would do it for me.

If Portland keeps him, though, what are they doing? Ayton is IMO pretty untradeable and they need to get Clingan minutes. The best option would probably be never playing Ayton and going with a Williams/Clingan rotation, but that seems extremely unlikely. If he isn't playing much his trade value will go down, not up.

[Crymson]

I get that POV based on Williams injury history, but when he is right he is a game changer. I agree it would be a gamble and potentially irresponsible but if I am Portland is rather keep him if I am not getting a first or a player with solid upside. Non of the dudes you listed would do it for me.

He's rarely "right." No player in the league is more injury prone than he is, and he provides worse than no value -- a players who is consistently out levies the opportunity cost of his team instead having a player who's healthy enough to contribute -- when he's injured, which is most of the time.

Players with his history of lower body injuries rarely get healthier and more often get worse as the injuries accelerate in frequency. They also often progressively lose mobility and athleticism, which would be killer for his defense.

He's likelier than not to be injury prone for the rest of his career, however long that might be.

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

Good luck. Thybulle is still a mess on offense after five seasons -- remember that this was a guy not worth the Sixers having on the floor even with Harden, Maxey, Harris, and Embiid around him -- and Williams is the unhealthiest player in the league.

Neither of the two has greater than second-round value. Thybulle arguably isn't worth his salary (well under 10% of the cap), and Williams definitely isn't worth his right now.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm not sure either Portland player has value, and while the Kings players probably don't have much either, Huerter is by far the best player in this deal. I might sound crazy, but I actually think Portland is going to surprise people this year. They need guys to buy in, and the West is tough, but they have a bunch of decent guys. Just need Scoot/Sharpe to take a leap.

Scoot/Simons
Sharpe/Huerter
Deni/
Grant/Murray
Ayton/Clingan

I can see it from Sac's POV. The concept to add two guys who are plus defenders, but so far Thybulle hasn't been a real rotation guy, and Williams is never on the floor. Wouldn't hate the Kings doing this, but I'd prefer to rehabs Huerters value until Carter is back if this is the best we could do.

[tacos]

I feel Portland is content to sit on their assets rather than bring huerter who i would rather nothing at all to

Is timelord a gamble? Yes but I would rather gamble on his upside of staying healthy then be stuck with a contract I don't want

As a rebuilding team Portland has the time and space to sit on time lord for a bit

And if a team doesn't want to give us anything positive for thybulle I'm content to sit on him as well

[JRoy]

I get that POV based on Williams injury history, but when he is right he is a game changer. I agree it would be a gamble and potentially irresponsible but if I am Portland is rather keep him if I am not getting a first or a player with solid upside. Non of the dudes you listed would do it for me.

He's rarely "right." No player in the league is more injury prone than he is, and he provides worse than no value -- a players who is consistently out levies the opportunity cost of his team instead having a player who's healthy enough to contribute -- when he's injured, which is most of the time.

Players with his history of lower body injuries rarely get healthier and more often get worse as the injuries accelerate in frequency. They also often progressively lose mobility and athleticism, which would be killer for his defense.

He's likelier than not to be injury prone for the rest of his career, however long that might be.

Hard pass from POR.

Looking for picks, not this.

Good luck. Thybulle is still a mess on offense after five seasons -- remember that this was a guy not worth the Sixers having on the floor even with Harden, Maxey, Harris, and Embiid around him -- and Williams is the unhealthiest player in the league.

Neither of the two has greater than second-round value. Thybulle arguably isn't worth his salary (well under 10% of the cap), and Williams definitely isn't worth his right now.

No team wants Thybulle for his offense. He was All-Defense for a reason. Would be great if he could bring his shooting up a bit but that might or might not happen.

Williams is a fine player on those occasions when he’s healthy, unfortunately he has injury issues and will miss significant time.

If the best POR can get is SRP we can keep them. Some team might offer FRP with bad salary.

[Crymson]

No team wants Thybulle for his offense. He was All-Defense for a reason. Would be great if he could bring his shooting up a bit but that might or might not happen.

In case you hadn't noticed, no team wants Thybulle for his defense either. His offense is bad enough that he's not worth a good team having on the floor regardless of how good his defense is. Philly was able to play him alongside four creators, three of them of the elite variety. Despite that, and despite his All-Defensive-caliber defense, he was such a drain on offense that he still wasn't worth having on the floor. They dumped him for basically nothing.

Williams is a fine player on those occasions when he’s healthy, unfortunately he has injury issues and will miss significant time.

Yeah, it's the "when he's healthy" that's the rub. He's rarely healthy.

If the best POR can get is SRP we can keep them. Some team might offer FRP with bad salary.

Yes, Portland probably keeps them. No bad team has anything to gain by offering up a FRP to dump bad salary, and FRPs are such a scarce resource for good teams that they won't do it either -- they don't have any real use for either of those players.

It's very rare for a team to trade a first to dump salary anyway.

[Texas Chuck]

If Williams and/or Thybulle worth worth a first, Portland would have already done that. Especially Williams since they are stuck with Ayton and drafted a center whom they are going to want to see get minutes.

Sometimes we assign a player a value years ago and then fail to adjust when the market tells us their value is non-existent. I get we love players who once played for our team and we have fond memories of what they did. But that doesn't mean they have value they don't have.