RealGM

Does Utah turn down Dick?

I don't know if I want to do this as a Raptors fan because we severely lack shooting talent. But the best trades are the ones that hurts both sides.

It seems like Kessler can't win a starting spot in Utah despite them being pretty bad. It might be because they are blatantly trying to tank as well. They need a starting shooting guard to put next to Keyonte George. They may also prefer a stretch talent there.

Markkanen / Filipowski
Collins / Hendricks
Sensabaugh / Williams
Dick / Clarkson
George / Sexton

Poeltl / Kessler
Barnes / Olynyk
Barrett / Agbaji
Brown / Walter
Quickely / Mitchell

I wouldn't trade much for Dick. Adds to our guard glut, our backcourt is already poor defensively so he can't be hidden, no on ball creation... really just doesn't do anything we need.

Don't see it for either team, but especially for TOR, they just let GTJ go and need a designated shooter, and they have Poeltl at center.

Unless Toronto has a Poeltl trade lined up that is netting them a decent asset then I can see them having any interest in trading for a backup center.

Valid question.

Is Kessler worth Dick?

What’s wrong with Kessler, and why the hell would Utah trade him?

It seems like a weird rumor mill obsession that they should trade Kessler. From what I’ve seen and from his stats, he looks like he will be a very solid shot blocking C.

Thaddy wrote:. But the best trades are the ones that hurts both sides.

No, these are the worst trades.

The best trades give both teams want they want.

Bizarre belief.

I don’t see Dick as anywhere near Kessler in trade Value.
Am I off base with that? Dick looks like he won’t stick in the league to me. I know he was just a rookie but I didn’t see it. Of course he is only 21 and can improve but I don’t see the upside to be on par to bring back Kessler in a trade.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Thaddy wrote:. But the best trades are the ones that hurts both sides.

No, these are the worst trades.

The best trades give both teams want they want.

Bizarre belief.

You can't give up garbage for a player you want on the other side.

You're the one that gave me that advice after I posted a bad trade. You said both sides need to give up value and that hurts but it's what makes it fair, or something along those lines.

brackdan70 wrote:I don’t see Dick as anywhere near Kessler in trade Value.
Am I off base with that? Dick looks like he won’t stick in the league to me. I know he was just a rookie but I didn’t see it. Of course he is only 21 and can improve but I don’t see the upside to be on par to bring back Kessler in a trade.

He started slow but in the 2nd half after his conditioning was NBA level he shot very well. Kessler isn't a starter on a lottery team, is that not a concern? On the other hand Dick was better than Trent Jr, who was a 20M player not too long ago.

brackdan70 wrote:I don’t see Dick as anywhere near Kessler in trade Value.
Am I off base with that? Dick looks like he won’t stick in the league to me. I know he was just a rookie but I didn’t see it. Of course he is only 21 and can improve but I don’t see the upside to be on par to bring back Kessler in a trade.

I thought he was fine for a rookie? People read a lot into that first 10 games or so, but his percentages turned out fine. He's not a good defender but there are worse. Post all-star he averaged 13/3/1 on 44/37/81 shooting - I think that's a pretty reasonable expectation for what he might do next season. I'd love to believe Kessler has more value - I think he might - but I doubt it is a ton more. Regular Raptors posters on here probably know that I don't like Grady all that much, either, but he's an NBA player, IMO.

Thaddy wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

Thaddy wrote:. But the best trades are the ones that hurts both sides.

No, these are the worst trades.

The best trades give both teams want they want.

Bizarre belief.

You can't give up garbage for a player you want on the other side.

You're the one that gave me that advice after I posted a bad trade. You said both sides need to give up value and that hurts but it's what makes it fair, or something along those lines.

Where did I say give up garbage? I'm saying trades that hurt each team are bad trades. You are now trying to conflate with it having to hurt in terms of giving up value. But it never "hurts" to get a piece that makes more sense. You feel like you've made yourself better now or in the future.

And deals can definitely help both sides. A vet goes to a win now team for a pick or prospect to a team thats rebuilding. Both are helped.

Trying to find deals that both teams say no to is the opposite of a good trade even though we see that trope posted a fair bit.

Aim for deals that help both.

psman2 wrote:Unless Toronto has a Poeltl trade lined up that is netting them a decent asset then I can see them having any interest in trading for a backup center.

Yeah - but at that point it's probably easier to just have the team trying to get Poeltl to trade for Kessler.

Kessler is not like some world destroyer but he's worth a lot more than Dick, who I'm not even sure is an NBA player after his rookie deal.

meekrab wrote:Kessler is not like some world destroyer but he's worth a lot more than Dick, who I'm not even sure is an NBA player after his rookie deal.

He projects to be a guy who can hit .400 from three consistently, at least that’s his potential. If he gets there it’s a lock he’ll be in the league for ten plus years with his size.

I like Kessler too. I think most teams without a star five want to split those minutes between two players and Kessler can easily be one half of that equation on a contender.

That being said I don’t think this trade proposal makes sense for either side.

meekrab wrote:Kessler is not like some world destroyer but he's worth a lot more than Dick, who I'm not even sure is an NBA player after his rookie deal.

Which part of his rookie season made him not an NBA player? He was a lottery pick while Kessler was picked in the 20s. Kessler isn't good enough to be a starter on Utah yet Gradey will be a starter in his sophomore year on Toronto.

meekrab wrote:Kessler is not like some world destroyer but he's worth a lot more than Dick, who I'm not even sure is an NBA player after his rookie deal.

This is crazy talk.

Did you not see Dicks stats the 2nd half of the season? Look above.

Thaddy wrote:

meekrab wrote:Kessler is not like some world destroyer but he's worth a lot more than Dick, who I'm not even sure is an NBA player after his rookie deal.

Which part of his rookie season made him not an NBA player? He was a lottery pick while Kessler was picked in the 20s. Kessler isn't good enough to be a starter on Utah yet Gradey will be a starter in his sophomore year on Toronto.

Ageed, anyone who thinks Gradey isn't an NBA player clearly doesn't know Dick.