RealGM

Link to trade on Fanspo: https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/9DjxIQr2q9qpVh

New Ingram trade idea, based off babyjax's framework for BI to Jazz:

UTA outgoing: Collins + Kessler + '25 1st (worst of UTA/CLE/MIN)
UTA incoming: Ingram + Theis

DET outgoing: Stewart + Hardaway Jr. + '27 2nd (BKN or DAL)
DET incoming: Collins + Hawkins + '25 1st (worst of UTA/CLE/MIN) via UTA

NOP outgoing: Ingram + Hawkins + Theis +
NOP incoming: Kessler + Stewart + '27 2nd (BKN or DAL) via DET

--------------------------------
I got to this idea scanning for a way to turn Ingram into valuable bigs for NOP (like many of us tradesters have been doing for a while). Now, I realize this kind of trade is unlikely, for many reasons. But in this scenario, David Griffin accepts sunk cost of sorts and prioritizes cap flexibility while adding two valuable bigs to round out their roster.
-----------------

Jazz buy low on talent with Ingram, leaving options open to strategically load manage Ingram and Markannen throughout the season for draft position, but still market it as a "win-now" trade to help newly extended Markannen. If the trade is done soon, then Aigne can re-trade Ingram at the deadline if the right deal comes along. They can also negotiate a potential extension or re-signing with him and his agent, giving new hope for lower salary expectations in a new situation with not many cap space teams next offseason. They have sign-and-trade possibilities next offseason. At the very least, they clear Collins' salary next year while taking a chance on a former all-star talent while helping the young players develop. They also get back Theis, who fills in for their quwhite solid Center rotation.
--
Pistons get an extra 1st in the upcoming deep draft, for swapping young Stewart with slightly older and less valuable Collins, who can provide another veteran voice on a manageable 2 year deal. Collins can help as a semi-stretch big, and he becomes a more moveable expiring contract starting next offseason. Pelcians hope that last 1st is enough to make the Stewart (and THJ expiring)/Collins swap, but in this scenario, Langdon holds firm that it's not enough to give up the valuable toughness and skillset of fan favorite I. Stewart. The compromise is including Hawkins to DET, with Pistons giving back a future 2nd (or two 2nds?). Hawkins is a Langdon-drafted prospect who flashed elite movement shooting last season, a great type of young talent to have around Cade.
--
Pelicans accept that they won't get high value for Ingram at this point, so rather than have the BI contract and questionable play-style fit cloud their season, they pivot to turning their Center rotation into a position of strength. Kessler and Stewart make a nice 1-2 punch offering different skillsets to mix and match lineups depending on matchup. Kessler gives them the rim-protection and lob-threat the team hasn't had since the AD days, and is still young with potential to improve. They get an in house look at him as the starting Center cheaply the next 2 seasons before deciding on his extension/next contract. Stewart is especially a great fit, with his toughness, enforcer mindset to protect Zion and co. out there, along with his solid rim protection advanced stats and capable 3 pt. shooting as a big. They also get a future 2nd (NOP only has one left) for giving up Hawkins in the deal.

The real key is the cap flexibility the deal provides, shoring up every position with young talent on afforable muti-year contracts, while having room for Murphy's new big extension. This gives them leverage in trades, with no urgency to clear McCullom's contract off the books. It also opens up the possibilty for future trades, with Hardaway Jr.'s expiring at the trade deadline (if deal done 3 months before Feb. 7). Or they can look for bigger swings as soon as next offseason, with McCullom's 30m expiring deal, Stewart and Kessler's re-trade value, and all their own future 1sts.

Some will probably balk at Pels giving up Hawkins in this deal, but would Griffin capitalize on his percieved "prospect" value early, before he possibly becomes another NAW/Jaxson Hayes/Kira Lewis Jr. situation? Hawkins is a great movement shooter who surely will get better, but with his thin frame and lack of defense and creation ability, how valuable is he really over minimum guys like Matt Ryan, Antonio Reeves, (Malik Beasley, Hardaway Jr.), and JeVonte Green? Fans are already penciling in JeVonte over him in the depth chart due to Coach Willie Green's love for hustle defender types (Naji Marshall, Hart, Richardson, etc.)-- and Jose Alvardo also deserves minutes as an undersized guard. If Hawkins will be buried on the bench again, use that value to improve their Center spot, while clearing even more future salary for the tax-weary ownership.
-----

New Line-Ups:

Jazz:

Eubanks/ Theis/ Filipowski
Lauri / Hendricks
Ingram/ Svi/ Sensabough
George/ CodyW/ Juzang
Sexton/ Clarkson/ Collier
-------

Pistons

Duren/ Collins/ Reed
Harris/ Klintman
Fonte./ Holland/ Moore
Ausar/ Beasley/ Hawkins
Cade/ Ivey/ Sasser
--------

Pelicans

Kessler / Stewart/ Missi
Zion / JRE/ Matkovic
Murphy / Jevonte/ Ryan
Herb / THJ / Reeves
DeJounte/ CJ/ Jose

While it's not bad, this is complicating the obvious deal IMO.

Pelicans get Kessler, Collins, FRP
Jazz get Ingram, Reeves

Pels team is out of the tax and it's pretty perfect in balance
Murray, CJ, TM3, Zion, Kessler
Alvarado, Hawkins, Herb, Collins, Theis
Fultz (Min), Green, Matkovic, JRE, Missi



OP is asking Pelicans to give up Hawkins and FRP to upgrade Collins to Stewart when I don't think that's even an upgrade. Collins deal aligns with CJ and Kessler. You can keep all 3 for $60m this season and next, then you increase Kessler salary as you drop the salary of the other 2. Not to mention next offseason both CJ and Collins are considered expiring deals and useful for trade.


Also is Kessler+Collins for Ingram+Theis legal? It's $29.5m out and $38.1 in and that's not salary matching. I think Ingram for Kessler+Collins works or Igram+Reeves. Don't think any other combo works.

I don't think that the Jazz are moving this direction right now. I think Cody Williams is our SF of the future and we'd be much better off not bringing in Ingram in front of him. Plus this just hurts the tank, a lot.

If the Jazz were further along in a rebuild I would probably love this. But, for now I think the Jazz pass on Ingram and continue the rebuild.

Maybe NO has the assets to pry Kessler away without using Ingram? I don't know. I know that I"m much higher on Kessler than most Jazz fans, so I probably will balk at most offers, whereas other Jazz fans might be fine with whatever.

Speaking as a Pistons fan, that's a very big meh. Stewart is the only good defensive big on the team, he's a pretty darned solid backup center, and he's a team leader. Collins is bad salary at a position of non-need; the Pistons very much do not need an awful defender backing up Duren (who was himself an awful defender last season), and they have no need for him or anyone else at power forward. The 1st is likely to be on the border of the 2nd round; strong draft or not, that's of marginal value.

Hawkins would be the real value here, yet even he isn't ideal; his long-term NBA value is still unclear in terms of whether or not he'll be anything but a perimeter shooting specialist -- for what it's worth, he had a pretty unimpressive rookie season; those flashes of movement shooting amounted to about one made movement three per every two games across the course of the campaign -- and the Pistons really don't need yet another unseasoned player at this point anyway. Though Stewart is less than a year older, he's been in the league for four years and he's played like a veteran since day one.

I'd say this is pretty poor for all teams involved, really. Nance is an OK backup; the Pelicans don't need to be trading for two centers, and this is a poor return on Ingram for a team that wants to compete this season. The Jazz are without a reason to be trading for Ingram -- they're aiming for the bottom -- and he's got only one season remaining on his deal before he either jets somewhere else in the offseason or demands a long-term contract at a salary he doesn't deserve.

Speaking as a Pistons fan, that's a very big meh. Stewart is the only good defensive big on the team, he's a pretty darned solid backup center, and he's a team leader. Collins is bad salary at a position of non-need; the Pistons very much do not need an awful defender backing up Duren (who was himself an awful defender last season), and they have no need for him or anyone else at power forward. The 1st is likely to be on the border of the 2nd round; strong draft or not, that's of marginal value.

Hawkins would be the real value here, yet even he isn't ideal; his long-term NBA value is still unclear in terms of whether or not he'll be anything but a perimeter shooting specialist -- for what it's worth, he had a pretty unimpressive rookie season; those flashes of movement shooting amounted to about one made movement three per every two games across the course of the campaign -- and the Pistons really don't need yet another unseasoned player at this point anyway. Though Stewart is less than a year older, he's been in the league for four years and he's played like a veteran since day one.

I'd say this is pretty poor for all teams involved, really. Nance is an OK backup; the Pelicans don't need to be trading for two centers, and this is a poor return on Ingram for a team that wants to compete this season. The Jazz are without a reason to be trading for Ingram -- they're aiming for the bottom -- and he's got only one season remaining on his deal before he either jets somewhere else in the offseason or demands a long-term contract at a salary he doesn't deserve.

YayBasketball wrote:Pistons

Duren/ Collins/ Reed
Harris/ Klintman
Fonte./ Holland/ Moore
Ausar/ Beasley/ Hawkins
Cade/ Ivey/ Sasser

I say this without any condescension but rather in an effort to be helpful: consider leaving out the depth charts in future trade proposals if you're not super familiar with the teams involved.

Yeah, there’s nothing here that makes me want to trade Stewart heading into a 4/60 flat contract that starts this year.

Like a bunch of other non-stars-but-solid-players inked to MLE (future sub-MLE) level contracts, the value is just too good to give up for a late first and a limited player. It’s a loss in future value barring an extremely fortunate draft outcome.