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Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 8:17 am
by Village Idiot
Atlanta trades:
Clint Capela
Larry Nance Jr.
2025 1st - least valuable of LA Lakers or Sacramento´s picks
Portland trades:
Deandre Ayton
Atlanta gets a center upgrade and trade two guys in their early 30s for a guy just now entering his prime. The Hawks can also play the defensive oriented Okongwu at PF next to Ayton in a larger line-up.
Portland opens up playing time for Clingan and gets a mid 1st in a solid 2025 draft. Capela and Nance Jr. are both ending contracts and can also either be moved later or bought out.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 9:35 am
by dms269
I don't know that Ayton, on his current contract, gets you usable expirings and a first. Atlanta, a team who needs to give Jalen Johnson a new deal can't afford to be paying Ayton 30+ million a year.
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Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 11:08 am
by daoneandonly
The first is way too much for Ayton. The guy has zero motivation and work ethic, he's not returning this
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 12:29 pm
by ecuhus1981
Ayton is not a better contributor to winning right now than either Capela or Nance, not trying to be funny. That fact, and his contract, means Portland should be giving a 1st here instead of getting one. I don't suppose that they have an appetite to give one, so this deal falls apart.
Also, I don't love the fit of DeAndre and Trae.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 1:20 pm
by jbk1234
Agree with those who say Portland would have to drop the request for a first for this to have any chance, and then I still think it's a no.
The Suns searched high and low for an Ayton trade partner and the best they could get was a worse player and a little salary relief in Nurkic.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 2:31 pm
by Pattycakes
daoneandonly wrote:The first is way too much for Ayton. The guy has zero motivation and work ethic, he's not returning this
The DA hate has gotten so real
A lot of Blazer fans love DA now, take what you want w that info. Keep the crap trades going tho
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 6:32 pm
by shakes0
Adding Ayton to Atlanta's lineup would be a case of subtraction by addition. You need a specific type of player to be in a lineup with Trae. The FO somewhat finally figured that out this off season.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 6:34 pm
by Godaddycurse
Pattycakes wrote:daoneandonly wrote:The first is way too much for Ayton. The guy has zero motivation and work ethic, he's not returning this
The DA hate has gotten so real
A lot of Blazer fans love DA now, take what you want w that info. Keep the crap trades going tho
really? why?
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 6:41 pm
by BlazersBroncos
Dont see PDX getting a FRP for DA unless they take on a albatross contract in return and honestly looking around the league I dont even see a guy that fits that mold (IE long unwanted salary, + need for C + decent stable of FRP).
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 6:51 pm
by LightTheBeam
first seems to be going the wrong way.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 7:14 pm
by JRoy
Pattycakes wrote:daoneandonly wrote:The first is way too much for Ayton. The guy has zero motivation and work ethic, he's not returning this
The DA hate has gotten so real
A lot of Blazer fans love DA now, take what you want w that info. Keep the crap trades going tho
Which fans are those?
I have only seen those who tolerate him and those who want him gone.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 3, 2024 7:43 pm
by cgf
ecuhus1981 wrote:Ayton is not a better contributor to winning right now than either Capela or Nance, not trying to be funny. That fact, and his contract, means Portland should be giving a 1st here instead of getting one. I don't suppose that they have an appetite to give one, so this deal falls apart.
Also, I don't love the fit of DeAndre and Trae.
I dunno about that. Capela looked beyond washed last year.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Mon Sep 9, 2024 5:39 pm
by OutsidetheNBA
Godaddycurse wrote:Pattycakes wrote:daoneandonly wrote:The first is way too much for Ayton. The guy has zero motivation and work ethic, he's not returning this
The DA hate has gotten so real
A lot of Blazer fans love DA now, take what you want w that info. Keep the crap trades going tho
really? why?
Quoting myself for another thread. Feel like I should auto-post this for all Ayton trades:
Lots of not-so-good Ayton proposals on the board right now, so I want to give a higher-level Blazer fan perspective.
1. I understand Ayton has, at best, neutral value to other teams. He is overpaid and there are questions about attitude and effort.
2. The Blazers don't need to trade Ayton. They are under the tax. He'll be an expiring next summer. There is no "logjam" at Center. Derek Lively -- an excellent rookie center -- averaged 24mpg over 55 games. Clingan should not and will not play 36mpg. He can easily split time with Ayton and RWIII as he develops, particularly if Clingan and Ayton can share the floor for a few minutes a game, which is the plan.
3. Contrary to popular belief, the best way to develop teenagers is not to throw five of them on the court and tell them to figure it out. Ask Stephen Silas and the Rockets how that worked for them two years ago. You need veterans to establish a framework that young players can develop within.
Sarr and Coulibaly will never learn to play good team defense with Marvin Bagley at center, which is why the Wizards signed JV. Jabari Smith would never learn to fit into an offense with KPJ at point guard, which is why the Rockets signed FVV. Scoot and Sharpe will have a better chance to develop with an established vet like Ayton playing minutes at Center instead of a clueless rookie and Duop Reath. Ayton provides a defensive floor and a reasonable option on offense and that's important to everyone else's development.
4. None of this means Ayton is "untouchable" or the Blazers will never trade him, etc., etc. It's just that from a fan's perspective, he's a worthwhile part of the roster. Even if he is overpaid with a questionable motor, there is 0 reason to move him for random expirings that don't fit.
If I'm trading Ayton, I want a solid veteran center (on the level of, say, JV or Stephen Adams) and some combination of picks/prospects (lotto protected 1st likely to convey, or a guy like O-Max Prosper and a 2nd).
I understand no one wants to offer that right now. And that's fine! But don't be surprised when Blazers fans shoot down your Ayton proposals.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Mon Sep 9, 2024 5:40 pm
by Godaddycurse
OutsidetheNBA wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:Pattycakes wrote:The DA hate has gotten so real
A lot of Blazer fans love DA now, take what you want w that info. Keep the crap trades going tho
really? why?
Quoting myself for another thread. Feel like I should auto-post this for all Ayton trades:
Lots of not-so-good Ayton proposals on the board right now, so I want to give a higher-level Blazer fan perspective.
1. I understand Ayton has, at best, neutral value to other teams. He is overpaid and there are questions about attitude and effort.
2. The Blazers don't need to trade Ayton. They are under the tax. He'll be an expiring next summer. There is no "logjam" at Center. Derek Lively -- an excellent rookie center -- averaged 24mpg over 55 games. Clingan should not and will not play 36mpg. He can easily split time with Ayton and RWIII as he develops, particularly if Clingan and Ayton can share the floor for a few minutes a game, which is the plan.
3. Contrary to popular belief, the best way to develop teenagers is not to throw five of them on the court and tell them to figure it out. Ask Stephen Silas and the Rockets how that worked for them two years ago. You need veterans to establish a framework that young players can develop within.
Sarr and Coulibaly will never learn to play good team defense with Marvin Bagley at center, which is why the Wizards signed JV. Jabari Smith would never learn to fit into an offense with KPJ at point guard, which is why the Rockets signed FVV. Scoot and Sharpe will have a better chance to develop with an established vet like Ayton playing minutes at Center instead of a clueless rookie and Duop Reath. Ayton provides a defensive floor and a reasonable option on offense and that's important to everyone else's development.
4. None of this means Ayton is "untouchable" or the Blazers will never trade him, etc., etc. It's just that from a fan's perspective, he's a worthwhile part of the roster. Even if he is overpaid with a questionable motor, there is 0 reason to move him for random expirings that don't fit.
If I'm trading Ayton, I want a solid veteran center (on the level of, say, JV or Stephen Adams) and some combination of picks/prospects (lotto protected 1st likely to convey, or a guy like O-Max Prosper and a 2nd).
I understand no one wants to offer that right now. And that's fine! But don't be surprised when Blazers fans shoot down your Ayton proposals.
all of that makes sense but doesn't explain how/why blazer fans would love ayton. sounds like the opposite instead
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Mon Sep 9, 2024 5:50 pm
by OutsidetheNBA
Godaddycurse wrote:
all of that makes sense but doesn't explain how/why blazer fans would love ayton. sounds like the opposite instead
You're right. I don't love him and I don't know many Blazer fans who do. But from a watchibility and development perspective, Ayton has value for the Blazers.
Side note -- and not responsive to anything you've said -- but I think fans in all sports underrate players with work ethic issues. We see Ayton's incredible tools, we see him play like a Top 5 Center in the '21 playoffs, and then we see his bad effort and say "the guy is complete trash."
Actually, he's not complete trash. He's a guy with Top 5 Center tools, who is paid like a Top 10 Center, but plays like the 15-25th best Center (depending on his motivation any given night). But the thing is, for a rebuilding team just looking for some stability to develop young guys, the 20th best Center is fine so long as you're not over the tax.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 11:10 am
by Skybox
As I go up and down the list of NBA teams that maybe just maybe could come out of an Ayton trade happy...I DO come back to ATL. It would certainly not be without significant risk...but ATL is in such a state of flux that an instant rebuild with Trae & Ayton as your core offensive players (with a nice supporting cast in place) could really work. Ayton's problematic, but if you get him his touches and points, he can still be a dominant offensive presence. IF Ayton is traded - I'd say it's his last stop if it doesn't work out but I could see the dynamic in ATL working out as long as Ayton is treated like the star he thinks he is. Take the pick out and it gets a little easier to jump in the Ayton deep end....I could see Trae with 25ppg/9 assists and Ayton getting 20/12 (including some easy PnR's and lobs from Trae. The two of them mesh very nicely on offense - I just don't know why Ayton (a mobile, young, agile giant) can't be more effective defensively.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 1:00 pm
by raleigh
Skybox wrote:I DO come back to ATL
You shouldn't.
The Hawks, who will also need to re-sign Jalen Johnson, aren't going to take on that big of a salary for 2025-26 unless it's for a difference maker.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 1:06 pm
by Skybox
raleigh wrote:Skybox wrote:I DO come back to ATL
You shouldn't.
The Hawks, who will also need to re-sign Jalen Johnson, aren't going to take on that big of a salary for 2025-26 unless it's for a difference maker.
If Ayton is not going to be a "difference maker", you obviously don't do it...and no one has. I'm saying bring him in and give him the start treatment and opportunity. Very easy to dismiss him or that approach - but it's the only way it works. 20/10 or more IS a difference maker if he decides he wants to win and prove everyone wrong (by playing D, setting picks for his little buddy, and rebounding like a monster of his physical profile should).
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:59 am
by Case2012
Posting any trades about DA is waste of time. He put up 23 and 15 basically the last 25 games and endangered the tank but he's been stigmatized af so he's worth a top 55 protected 2nd on real gm.
Re: Atlanta - Portland
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 4:07 pm
by Texas Chuck
Case2012 wrote:Posting any trades about DA is waste of time. He put up 23 and 15 basically the last 25 games and endangered the tank but he's been stigmatized af so he's worth a top 55 protected 2nd on real gm.
Forget your notion for a minute that RealGM is biased against your team. Lots of posters believe this and I know there is no convincing these posters of this once they've talked themselves into it. Even though none of them can ever explain why random posters are collectively against their team....
Do you honestly think Ayton is good value on his contract? Do you think were he a free agent this past summer and 10 or more teams had max space that he would have gotten a 2 year max?
See I do not. I don't think putting up some counting numbers in a small sample on a bad team makes him a max player. Particularly when the most important value a center has is anchoring a defense something he probably could do at a league average level if he wanted(we saw him do this for Phoenix before he decided nope his priority was his own offensive numbers), but he hasn't in 3 years now.
So maybe consider its not bias. It's he's a good but not great offensive center defending at a poor level over years now making max money. That's just not a max player no matter what his name is. And we have more productive discussions when we evaluate the player not start with some notion that people are just unfair to my team because uh reasons.
