RealGM

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How many heat packs does that buy?

They kinda had to do it, and if he's healthy and in-form he's certainly worth it but???

Probably just a short-term overreaction on my part but there's clearly some concern there.

you're building for the next couple years while you have a 3x MVP in his prime. Deal with the consequences of that contract later... in any case, there are far worse contracts out there to completely undeserving players. Murray is not one of them

Boom or bust contract.

HornetJail wrote:you're building for the next couple years while you have a 3x MVP in his prime. Deal with the consequences of that contract later... in any case, there are far worse contracts out there to completely undeserving players. Murray is not one of them

I mean, but the Nuggets aren't?

They gave up on contention by refusing to pay KCP.

So wildly overpaying Murray right after giving up is pretty odd.

SNPA wrote:Boom or bust contract.

Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

Another in a long line of moves I don't much like from Denver.

Guess I liked drafting Holmes.

If he is healthy and playing with Jokic I think he is worth it. On another team I really doubt he'd be as impactful, and health is an obvious concern. With the rising cap it might look better when we get to the last two years.

Laimbeer wrote:

SNPA wrote:Boom or bust contract.

Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

zimpy27 wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:

SNPA wrote:Boom or bust contract.

Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

So we're going to pick one stat, playoffs only, and still skew it toward him because it doesn't cover his strengths?

I'd have him below

SGA
Luka
Brunson
Hali
Steph
Kyrie
Trae
Dame
Mitchell (is he a point?)

Those guys are all offensive engines. Murry isn't, at least not to that extent. And the elephant in the room is his health. I'd like to see his contract a little more (not totally) like Zion's.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

HornetJail wrote:you're building for the next couple years while you have a 3x MVP in his prime. Deal with the consequences of that contract later... in any case, there are far worse contracts out there to completely undeserving players. Murray is not one of them

I mean, but the Nuggets aren't?

They gave up on contention by refusing to pay KCP.

So wildly overpaying Murray right after giving up is pretty odd.

The Nuggets failed to replace KCP, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t replaceable by another cheap-ish role player.

eminence wrote:Another in a long line of moves I don't much like from Denver.

Guess I liked drafting Holmes.

Holmes getting injured was just so unfortunate.

[list=][/list]

zimpy27 wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:

SNPA wrote:Boom or bust contract.

Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

Boom = another title
Bust = no title

zimpy27 wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:

SNPA wrote:Boom or bust contract.

Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

The minute requirement to qualify for career PER rankings may be excluding some guys. It requires 1500 minutes to qualify, so guys like Haliburton don’t qualify yet (only 15 gp and 1500 minutes) but outrank him too (22.0 PER).

Even then, it’s purely a past ranking with no guarantee of the future. I mean, I get why they gave him the contract, but sheesh, I don’t know if I like it. They could extend him at any point this season, so I don’t know if I get why they locked this in now?

zimpy27 wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:

SNPA wrote:Boom or bust contract.

Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

While his career playoff numbers are good, this past year's numbers would at least give you pause if you're paying for past performance.

Same agent as Ingram, same contract demand. Different player and situation.

toooskies wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:
He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

While his career playoff numbers are good, this past year's numbers would at least give you pause if you're paying for past performance.

Ironically, I'd have to say his RS was better than this past playoff run, but to be fair, he went in with a nagging left calf strain, knee swelling/soreness from overcompensating and at some point an elbow injury. That all seemed to continue into the Olympics, so hopefully he gets enough rest, which will be tough as Malone heavily overplays his starters and doesn't seemed inclined to develop any of the players that's brought in (well, I don't know but the media seems to think so and Malone rumored to be at odds with the FO might be something to watch).

The contract makes sense, he's a top 5 pg and a plyer that really fits will with Joker; besides, the Nuggets can't replace him.

Laimbeer wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:
Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

So we're going to pick one stat, playoffs only, and still skew it toward him because it doesn't cover his strengths?

I'd have him below

SGA
Luka
Brunson
Hali
Steph
Kyrie
Trae
Dame
Mitchell (is he a point?)

Those guys are all offensive engines. Murry isn't, at least not to that extent. And the elephant in the room is his health. I'd like to see his contract a little more (not totally) like Zion's.

BPM favours Murray even more if you want another advanced stat

Scoot McGroot wrote:

zimpy27 wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:
Never been an all-star. Is he even a top ten point guard? Under no scenario is this a "boom". If he stays healthy, it's still too generous. And obviously there's a good chance he won't be.

I love it for Murray. I think the Nuggets overpaid.

He's a top 5 PG in the league in terms of playoff performance

Has the same career playoff PER as Lillard, Kyrie, Mitchell. Only guys really ahead are Luka, Curry, Brunson. But PER is offense leaning and a Murray is more valuable on defense than these other names.

He is far worse in RS though and didn't get paid this contract for RS.

The minute requirement to qualify for career PER rankings may be excluding some guys. It requires 1500 minutes to qualify, so guys like Haliburton don’t qualify yet (only 15 gp and 1500 minutes) but outrank him too (22.0 PER).

Even then, it’s purely a past ranking with no guarantee of the future. I mean, I get why they gave him the contract, but sheesh, I don’t know if I like it. They could extend him at any point this season, so I don’t know if I get why they locked this in now?

Yes you're right, some excluded by minutes.

I also am not a fan of max deals being given before season starts unless you plan on giving him that deal even on a season ending injury next offseason.