Cle/Sac/Orl

[OxAndFox]

In this hypothetical the Cavs and Kings both make the POs this season but don't make any noise, leading to some big decisions. What are your thoughts?

Cle In: Sabonis/Murray/'27 Sacramento 1st Unprotected/'27 Orlando Lottery Protected Pick
Cle Out: Mobley/Allen
Why: Having defenders behind Mitchell/Garland hasn't worked so they go with a guy that can be an offensive hub and get their lead guards loads of opportunity. Keegan is a terrific 3&D guy that has a well rounded game and will improve too. They get 2 firsts on top of it to put the icing on the cake for this deal.

Sac In: Mobley/WCJ/Harris
Sac Out: Sabonis/Murray/'27 1st Sacramento Unprotected
Why: Go to a more defensive line-up with WCJ/Mobley at the 5/4 respectively. Harris is there as a vet filler. Mobley is the big prize here and it's a huge price to pay, but to get these types you need to do that.

Orl In: Allen
Orl Out: WCJ/Harris/'27 Orlando Lottery Protected Pick
Why: Allen gives the Magic the upgrade required at the starting 5 position and along with Isaac they have a formidable D inside adding to the Suggs/KCP backcourt.

Starting Line-ups:
Cleveland: Garland/Mitchell/Strus/Murray/Sabonis
Sacramento: Fox/Ellis/DDR/Mobley/WCJ
Orlando: Suggs/KCP/Wagner/Banchero/Allen

[jbk1234]

How does Keegan Murray play in this scenario where the Kings disappoint?

[Godaddycurse]

I think Cleveland have to break up their guard duo if they fail to make noise in playoffs. Trading defense for more offense while keeping the 2 guards is a recipe for disaster imo.

[OxAndFox]

How does Keegan Murray play in this scenario where the Kings disappoint?

Good question. And one that I think really needs to be asked about the whole season with the addition of DDR. Does the coaching staff stifle the offensive progress and turn him into more of a defensive player? I'm worried he won't get as many looks as he should. His defense was terrific last season and guarded 1-4, although he doesn't do well against a guy like Zion.

Ultimately I think he returns to the 40% 3pt shooter he was his rookie year and his D will make another jump. Its just will that 40% be on 3-4 attempts per game and 8-10 shots per game or will it be 15-16 shots per game like he should be getting IMO. If it's the latter I would be extremely hesitant to put him in any trade because he would be a 20+PPG guy that plays good D at the wing position and they don't grow on trees. But neither do guys like Mobley.

[OxAndFox]

I think Cleveland have to break up their guard duo if they fail to make noise in playoffs. Trading defense for more offense while keeping the 2 guards is a recipe for disaster imo.

This was certainly part of the thought process in terms of trading one of the guards. I don't think it would be a disaster though. Maybe they would need a follow up trade to get a better fitting backcourt.
I have always thought Mitchell needs to have a tall defender (or someone that plays taller) that is basically a SG that is a POA defender. Someone like Derrick White would suit him.
Out of Garland and the picks received here could certainly get a couple of guys that would fit.

[toooskies]

I could see CLE just doing Allen for WCJ/Harris/1st. Or to SAC for Murray+. I don't see them trading Mobley.

[Jkam31]

No chance I trade Keegan for Mobley

[jbk1234]

How does Keegan Murray play in this scenario where the Kings disappoint?

Good question. And one that I think really needs to be asked about the whole season with the addition of DDR. Does the coaching staff stifle the offensive progress and turn him into more of a defensive player? I'm worried he won't get as many looks as he should. His defense was terrific last season and guarded 1-4, although he doesn't do well against a guy like Zion.

Ultimately I think he returns to the 40% 3pt shooter he was his rookie year and his D will make another jump. Its just will that 40% be on 3-4 attempts per game and 8-10 shots per game or will it be 15-16 shots per game like he should be getting IMO. If it's the latter I would be extremely hesitant to put him in any trade because he would be a 20+PPG guy that plays good D at the wing position and they don't grow on trees. But neither do guys like Mobley.

I don't see anyway the Cavs trade Allen and Mobley, but obviously, Murray would have to break out for the Cavs to entertain trading Mobley.

[BoogieTime]

No on a few different levels

I don’t have anyone better than Sabonis in the deal and the Kings are giving up Murray/unprotected why then given WCJ/Harris aren’t major pieces

Sabonis will be the last leaving

[OxAndFox]

How does Keegan Murray play in this scenario where the Kings disappoint?

Good question. And one that I think really needs to be asked about the whole season with the addition of DDR. Does the coaching staff stifle the offensive progress and turn him into more of a defensive player? I'm worried he won't get as many looks as he should. His defense was terrific last season and guarded 1-4, although he doesn't do well against a guy like Zion.

Ultimately I think he returns to the 40% 3pt shooter he was his rookie year and his D will make another jump. Its just will that 40% be on 3-4 attempts per game and 8-10 shots per game or will it be 15-16 shots per game like he should be getting IMO. If it's the latter I would be extremely hesitant to put him in any trade because he would be a 20+PPG guy that plays good D at the wing position and they don't grow on trees. But neither do guys like Mobley.

I don't see anyway the Cavs trade Allen and Mobley, but obviously, Murray would have to break out for the Cavs to entertain trading Mobley.

I get that from a Cavs viewpoint and it's fair. And I guess it all depends on what someone views as breaking out. If Keegan breaks out (my definition would be 20+PPG and the same D as this season just gone so he would be close to AS status) there wouldn't be many players the Kings would trade him for by himself.
You have Sabonis in this trade and 2 x 1sts as well. Not suggesting Cavs should do it, but he is the best player in the deal.
I think Mobley has the potential to be the best player out of anyone in the trade. Some may give him the nod right now due to D, but IMO Sabonis is on another level than the 2 Cavs guys while Keegan isn't on a Mobley or Allen level. May even be 2 levels below them.

[Godaddycurse]

Good question. And one that I think really needs to be asked about the whole season with the addition of DDR. Does the coaching staff stifle the offensive progress and turn him into more of a defensive player? I'm worried he won't get as many looks as he should. His defense was terrific last season and guarded 1-4, although he doesn't do well against a guy like Zion.

Ultimately I think he returns to the 40% 3pt shooter he was his rookie year and his D will make another jump. Its just will that 40% be on 3-4 attempts per game and 8-10 shots per game or will it be 15-16 shots per game like he should be getting IMO. If it's the latter I would be extremely hesitant to put him in any trade because he would be a 20+PPG guy that plays good D at the wing position and they don't grow on trees. But neither do guys like Mobley.

I don't see anyway the Cavs trade Allen and Mobley, but obviously, Murray would have to break out for the Cavs to entertain trading Mobley.

I get that from a Cavs viewpoint and it's fair. And I guess it all depends on what someone views as breaking out. If Keegan breaks out (my definition would be 20+PPG and the same D as this season just gone so he would be close to AS status) there wouldn't be many players the Kings would trade him for by himself.
You have Sabonis in this trade and 2 x 1sts as well. Not suggesting Cavs should do it, but he is the best player in the deal.
I think Mobley has the potential to be the best player out of anyone in the trade. Some may give him the nod right now due to D, but IMO Sabonis is on another level than the 2 Cavs guys while Keegan isn't on a Mobley or Allen level. May even be 2 levels below them.

I agree Sabonis is the best player but he is also the worst fit next to 2 ball dominant guards in mitchell/garland. I think a separate Murray/Mobley deal w/o allen or Sabonis involved is much cleaner. If Murray doesn't breakout then Cleveland wouldn't entertain that swap though

[Mavrelous]

ORL is stealing value IMO, but the direction for both Sac and CLE isn't very clear.
Sac trades for defense 2 of their 3 best assets and a pick on top, right now Sabonis is a better player than Mobely, they are trying to win...
CLE invested lots of offesne in their backcourt, they can't afford to weaken their rim protection.

[Jkam31]

How does Keegan Murray play in this scenario where the Kings disappoint?

Good question. And one that I think really needs to be asked about the whole season with the addition of DDR. Does the coaching staff stifle the offensive progress and turn him into more of a defensive player? I'm worried he won't get as many looks as he should. His defense was terrific last season and guarded 1-4, although he doesn't do well against a guy like Zion.

Ultimately I think he returns to the 40% 3pt shooter he was his rookie year and his D will make another jump. Its just will that 40% be on 3-4 attempts per game and 8-10 shots per game or will it be 15-16 shots per game like he should be getting IMO. If it's the latter I would be extremely hesitant to put him in any trade because he would be a 20+PPG guy that plays good D at the wing position and they don't grow on trees. But neither do guys like Mobley.

I don't see anyway the Cavs trade Allen and Mobley, but obviously, Murray would have to break out for the Cavs to entertain trading Mobley.

Keegan breaking out is basically a 6’8 klay thompson you don’t trade that for Mobley

[LightTheBeam]

We give Keegan + Sabonis + a pick for Mobley? (WCJ, Harris don't do much for me tbh)

I like Mobley, and defensively he's very good, but this is not the answer to our problems. This turns us back into a lotto team.

Maybe I'm biased but I think the difference between Murray and Mobley is not a Sabonis, it might be the pick. This is a Sabonis too much from Sac's end.

That said, I wouldn't trade Keegan. Guess it depends how this year shakes out, but IMO this is a wings league and you don't trade a 2-way wing with his potential. If there was a Sabonis + picks for Mobley, that I could understand. Let Fox, Derozan, Monk, Keegan run the offense, while Mobley anchors the defense. But that doesn't seem possible.

[Godaddycurse]

Maybe I'm biased but I think the difference between Murray and Mobley is not a Sabonis, it might be the pick.

Mobley showed DPOY potential already and is improving on offense. I think Keegan without a big leap offensively requires more than just 1 pick to make up the difference.

[jbk1234]

Good question. And one that I think really needs to be asked about the whole season with the addition of DDR. Does the coaching staff stifle the offensive progress and turn him into more of a defensive player? I'm worried he won't get as many looks as he should. His defense was terrific last season and guarded 1-4, although he doesn't do well against a guy like Zion.

Ultimately I think he returns to the 40% 3pt shooter he was his rookie year and his D will make another jump. Its just will that 40% be on 3-4 attempts per game and 8-10 shots per game or will it be 15-16 shots per game like he should be getting IMO. If it's the latter I would be extremely hesitant to put him in any trade because he would be a 20+PPG guy that plays good D at the wing position and they don't grow on trees. But neither do guys like Mobley.

I don't see anyway the Cavs trade Allen and Mobley, but obviously, Murray would have to break out for the Cavs to entertain trading Mobley.

I get that from a Cavs viewpoint and it's fair. And I guess it all depends on what someone views as breaking out. If Keegan breaks out (my definition would be 20+PPG and the same D as this season just gone so he would be close to AS status) there wouldn't be many players the Kings would trade him for by himself.
You have Sabonis in this trade and 2 x 1sts as well. Not suggesting Cavs should do it, but he is the best player in the deal.
I think Mobley has the potential to be the best player out of anyone in the trade. Some may give him the nod right now due to D, but IMO Sabonis is on another level than the 2 Cavs guys while Keegan isn't on a Mobley or Allen level. May even be 2 levels below them.

Just me, but I'd be fine with the Kings keeping Sabonis and the Cavs keeping Allen. The Cavs can't go from the best defensive front court in the NBA to one anchored by Sabonis. My interest would be in Murray and that interest would be conditioned upon him finally putting it all together.

[LightTheBeam]

Maybe I'm biased but I think the difference between Murray and Mobley is not a Sabonis, it might be the pick.

Mobley showed DPOY potential already and is improving on offense. I think Keegan without a big leap offensively requires more than just 1 pick to make up the difference.

"According to Synergy, Murray allowed the fewest points per possession (0.681) of anybody in the league (min. 60 possessions) despite entering the one-on-one arena the fifth-most times (113). And he wasn’t playing on easy mode. His top defensive matchups were a murderer’s row: Devin Booker, Luka Doncic, Jalen Williams, Stephen Curry, Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Edwards. Murray held his own."

"Murray had a Defensive EPM in the 90th percentile and even posted above-median block and steal rates."

Murray was a damn good defender last year. Now considering he went from defensive liability to defensive stud in 1 year, maybe I'm banking on some further inprovement. But I'm always going to prefer the wing to the big man.

Maybe it costs more than a 1st to swap the 2, my preference is Murray over Mobley straight up. It's a wing league, and if it costs Murray to get him I'd look elsewhere. He's the last person on the team I'd trade away.

[Skybox]

MAYBE, CLE considers trading Mobley OR (more likely) Allen...no way they move both, imo. I wouldn't trade Mobley alone for the SAC package...especially when considering CLE's defenseless backcourt. Mobley at Center should be their future vision - Sabonis has shown that he's tough to pair with another big but has weaknesses in his game (defensive and shooting) that make you want to pair him with a guy like, say...Myles Turner. Jonathan Isaac might be a versatile, mobile big that might make sense next to Sabonis - in theory.

[LightTheBeam]

MAYBE, CLE considers trading Mobley OR (more likely) Allen...no way they move both, imo. I wouldn't trade Mobley alone for the SAC package...especially when considering CLE's defenseless backcourt. Mobley at Center should be their future vision - Sabonis has shown that he's tough to pair with another big but has weaknesses in his game (defensive and shooting) that make you want to pair him with a guy like, say...Myles Turner. Jonathan Isaac might be a versatile, mobile big that might make sense next to Sabonis - in theory.

His best pairing IMO is JJJ. Healthy Isaac is obviously another name that always comes up. Chet could work for sure.

Basically weak side shot blocker who can stretch the floor and defend the perimeter. Probably the hardest player in the NBA to find.

More realistic option is adding another good forward defender next to Keegan/Sabonis, and progress as a team defensively. With Fox-Keon-Keegan the defense was very active.

[bpcox05]

A deal that would be…

Evan Mobley

For

Keegan Murray
Extra Value

…would be interesting but no way Sabonis can be the “extra value” in this scenario. That’s wayyy overkill.

I love Murray and think there’s a good shot he takes another leap this year, but Mobley has the potential to be a perfect fit next to Sabonis (which is very rare as we all know). It would suck to lose Murray but we very well may have to pay a pretty penny to get that ideal PF next to Sabonis.