Randle to Charlotte

[Bentley1225]

In light of deal for KT, I’ll offer this idea for Wolves to further flip Randle for depth/draft picks while Charlotte makes a move to become more relevant this season

To Charlotte
-Julius Randle (1 year, $28.9 million plus P.O.)

To Minnesota
-Grant Williams (3 years, $41 million)
-Cody Martin (2 years, $16.8 million)
-Vasilje Micic (1 year, $7.7 million plus T.O.)
-2027 Dallas 1st round pick (1-2 protected)
-2029 Charlotte 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Why
-Wolves get further depth at the 4, wing and guard spot as Williams and Martin have good value based contracts. They would have to waive a few of their minimum players to make this happen

Conley/Dillingham/Micic
Divencenzo/Walker/Shannon
Edwards/Martin/Ingles
McDaniels/Williams/Diop
Gobert/Reid/Garza

-The Hornets upgrade starting 5 as they get Bird Rights for Randle and look to to him in off-season to a 4 year, $150 million deal. They can sign minimum guys to fill out rest of roster

Ball/Mann/Smith
Green/Curry/FA
Bridges/Miller/FA
Randle/Salaun/FA
Williams/Richards/Gibson

[eminence]

Value looks good for Minnesota. Think they'd probably have to start Williams or Reid, McDaniels would get bullied at the 4.

No idea for Charlotte.

[Mavrelous]

1 pick and more protected than DAL should suffice, like lowest of DAL/CHA pick in 27...
For tax, I'd replace Cody MArtin with Nick Smith Jr, lowers Wolves tax bill significantly...

[Rockazoids]

In light of deal for KT, I’ll offer this idea for Wolves to further flip Randle for depth/draft picks while Charlotte makes a move to become more relevant this season

To Charlotte
-Julius Randle (1 year, $28.9 million plus P.O.)

To Minnesota
-Grant Williams (3 years, $41 million)
-Cody Martin (2 years, $16.8 million)
-Vasilje Micic (1 year, $7.7 million plus T.O.)
-2027 Dallas 1st round pick (1-2 protected)
-2029 Charlotte 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Why
-Wolves get further depth at the 4, wing and guard spot as Williams and Martin have good value based contracts. They would have to waive a few of their minimum players to make this happen

Conley/Dillingham/Micic
Divencenzo/Walker/Shannon
Edwards/Martin/Ingles
McDaniels/Williams/Diop
Gobert/Reid/Garza

-The Hornets upgrade starting 5 as they get Bird Rights for Randle and look to to him in off-season to a 4 year, $150 million deal. They can sign minimum guys to fill out rest of roster

Ball/Mann/Smith
Green/Curry/FA
Bridges/Miller/FA
Randle/Salaun/FA
Williams/Richards/Gibson

It's funny how soon as Randle is out of a Knicks uni, his perceived value goes up.

[giberish]

I don't like this for Minny. None of those guys are anywhere close to as good as Randle, and Grant Williams is a limited-minutes bench guy making way too much for extra years after this.

[taikibansei]

In light of deal for KT, I’ll offer this idea for Wolves to further flip Randle for depth/draft picks while Charlotte makes a move to become more relevant this season

To Charlotte
-Julius Randle (1 year, $28.9 million plus P.O.)

To Minnesota
-Grant Williams (3 years, $41 million)
-Cody Martin (2 years, $16.8 million)
-Vasilje Micic (1 year, $7.7 million plus T.O.)
-2027 Dallas 1st round pick (1-2 protected)
-2029 Charlotte 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Why
-Wolves get further depth at the 4, wing and guard spot as Williams and Martin have good value based contracts. They would have to waive a few of their minimum players to make this happen

Conley/Dillingham/Micic
Divencenzo/Walker/Shannon
Edwards/Martin/Ingles
McDaniels/Williams/Diop
Gobert/Reid/Garza

-The Hornets upgrade starting 5 as they get Bird Rights for Randle and look to to him in off-season to a 4 year, $150 million deal. They can sign minimum guys to fill out rest of roster

Ball/Mann/Smith
Green/Curry/FA
Bridges/Miller/FA
Randle/Salaun/FA
Williams/Richards/Gibson

It's funny how soon as Randle is out of a Knicks uni, his perceived value goes up.

I was just about to post this!! There have been many, many threads here--can bump/post links if necessary--over the last two years where we were told that Randle was negative value. But now, suddenly, he's worth two minimally protected FRPs and a number of serviceable players? Seriously?

[shrink]

I get where the OP is coming from, because I don’t see how Randle and Gobert can maintain spacing, and they will make it even harder for Ant to have open driving lanes.

That said, MIN beat PHX and DEN to reach the Western Conference Finals last year, and for a franchise that has been so poor, probably had their best ever and are a legit contender. To me, the Towns for Randle trade is a step back, but this seems like too far a step back to get fans to accept. I think the starting PF for the Wolves next year is Naz Reid, and they need to clear salaries to afford to bring him back. An expiring Randle gives the appearance of still trying to contend this year, wrapped in an expiring for next year.

[giberish]

In light of deal for KT, I’ll offer this idea for Wolves to further flip Randle for depth/draft picks while Charlotte makes a move to become more relevant this season

To Charlotte
-Julius Randle (1 year, $28.9 million plus P.O.)

To Minnesota
-Grant Williams (3 years, $41 million)
-Cody Martin (2 years, $16.8 million)
-Vasilje Micic (1 year, $7.7 million plus T.O.)
-2027 Dallas 1st round pick (1-2 protected)
-2029 Charlotte 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Why
-Wolves get further depth at the 4, wing and guard spot as Williams and Martin have good value based contracts. They would have to waive a few of their minimum players to make this happen

Conley/Dillingham/Micic
Divencenzo/Walker/Shannon
Edwards/Martin/Ingles
McDaniels/Williams/Diop
Gobert/Reid/Garza

-The Hornets upgrade starting 5 as they get Bird Rights for Randle and look to to him in off-season to a 4 year, $150 million deal. They can sign minimum guys to fill out rest of roster

Ball/Mann/Smith
Green/Curry/FA
Bridges/Miller/FA
Randle/Salaun/FA
Williams/Richards/Gibson

It's funny how soon as Randle is out of a Knicks uni, his perceived value goes up.

I was just about to post this!! There have been many, many threads here--can bump/post links if necessary--over the last two years where we were told that Randle was negative value. But now, suddenly, he's worth two minimally protected FRPs and a number of serviceable players? Seriously?

The salaries coming back are worse than junk EC filler and the 1sts look quite well protected (the Dallas one is protected by their team quality and the Charlotte one is lotto protected).

[taikibansei]

It's funny how soon as Randle is out of a Knicks uni, his perceived value goes up.

I was just about to post this!! There have been many, many threads here--can bump/post links if necessary--over the last two years where we were told that Randle was negative value. But now, suddenly, he's worth two minimally protected FRPs and a number of serviceable players? Seriously?

The salaries coming back are worse than junk EC filler and the 1sts look quite well protected (the Dallas one is protected by their team quality and the Charlotte one is lotto protected).

The salaries coming back (averaging 9 million/year per player) are negligible, and that Dallas pick is a serious Luka injury away from being amazing.

[HornetJail]

pass for Charlotte. I would maybe take Randle as a stopgap flier at the deadline if we're looking for an upgrade to get us over the hump into the playoffs (unlikely), and then eat the cap savings if he opts out, but I generally do not want any part of him long-term. So that's not 2 1sts value for a rebuilding team.

I would have offered this and plenty more for KAT however

[Rockazoids]

In light of deal for KT, I’ll offer this idea for Wolves to further flip Randle for depth/draft picks while Charlotte makes a move to become more relevant this season

To Charlotte
-Julius Randle (1 year, $28.9 million plus P.O.)

To Minnesota
-Grant Williams (3 years, $41 million)
-Cody Martin (2 years, $16.8 million)
-Vasilje Micic (1 year, $7.7 million plus T.O.)
-2027 Dallas 1st round pick (1-2 protected)
-2029 Charlotte 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Why
-Wolves get further depth at the 4, wing and guard spot as Williams and Martin have good value based contracts. They would have to waive a few of their minimum players to make this happen

Conley/Dillingham/Micic
Divencenzo/Walker/Shannon
Edwards/Martin/Ingles
McDaniels/Williams/Diop
Gobert/Reid/Garza

-The Hornets upgrade starting 5 as they get Bird Rights for Randle and look to to him in off-season to a 4 year, $150 million deal. They can sign minimum guys to fill out rest of roster

Ball/Mann/Smith
Green/Curry/FA
Bridges/Miller/FA
Randle/Salaun/FA
Williams/Richards/Gibson

It's funny how soon as Randle is out of a Knicks uni, his perceived value goes up.

I was just about to post this!! There have been many, many threads here--can bump/post links if necessary--over the last two years where we were told that Randle was negative value. But now, suddenly, he's worth two minimally protected FRPs and a number of serviceable players? Seriously?

Here's one for you.

I’m moving Randle as soon as possible.

NYK trades Randle
NYK receives Collins/Kessler
Yes most people dislike Collins, but he is 1) cheaper, 2) a better defender, 3) will not be expected to be option 1 or 2 (Brunson/ Bridges).
Additionally getting Kessler as a backup to Mitchell.

Utah trades Collins/Kessler
Utah receives Washington/Kleiber/Powell/25&28 SRP Dallas
Utah full steam ahead tank. Move off of Collins and Kessler. Have small salaries to add to a Markkanen deal.

Dallas sends Washington/Kleber/Powell/picks
Dallas receives Randle.
Randle gets to be a third wheel and stabilize the PF spot.

[psman2]

It's funny how soon as Randle is out of a Knicks uni, his perceived value goes up.

I was just about to post this!! There have been many, many threads here--can bump/post links if necessary--over the last two years where we were told that Randle was negative value. But now, suddenly, he's worth two minimally protected FRPs and a number of serviceable players? Seriously?

Here's one for you.

I’m moving Randle as soon as possible.

NYK trades Randle
NYK receives Collins/Kessler
Yes most people dislike Collins, but he is 1) cheaper, 2) a better defender, 3) will not be expected to be option 1 or 2 (Brunson/ Bridges).
Additionally getting Kessler as a backup to Mitchell.

Utah trades Collins/Kessler
Utah receives Washington/Kleiber/Powell/25&28 SRP Dallas
Utah full steam ahead tank. Move off of Collins and Kessler. Have small salaries to add to a Markkanen deal.

Dallas sends Washington/Kleber/Powell/picks
Dallas receives Randle.
Randle gets to be a third wheel and stabilize the PF spot.

Edit: Ok you are doing the opposite here....
Collins/Kessler package is not really supporting your declaration of new found value. Collins is a negative contract and Kessler likely fetches a later 1st 20+. If thos was proposed to Knicks fans a week ago they would have ridiculed the offer, but now you what to use it as some kind of evidence for an anti-knicks bias?

BTW all those guys from Charlotte are all negative contract guys, serviceable does not mean desirable.

[taikibansei]

BTW all those guys from Charlotte are all negative contract guys, serviceable does not mean desirable.

Again, the salaries coming back (averaging 9 million/year per player) are negligible--i.e., "serviceable" is more than fine here--and that Dallas pick (for three years from now) is one serious Luka injury (or Luka trade demand) away from being low lottery. That's a good bet if Minnesota really wants to dump Randle. (I wouldn't do it for either team, but the trade proposal itself makes Randle out to be a clear positive).

Regarding the bias against Randle/the Knicks, here is R-Dawg recently proposing a more lopsided (for Minnesota) version of the KAT-Randle trade that actually happened and getting mocked:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400943&p=114689005

[psman2]

BTW all those guys from Charlotte are all negative contract guys, serviceable does not mean desirable.

Again, the salaries coming back (averaging 9 million/year per player) are negligible--i.e., "serviceable" is more than fine here--and that Dallas pick (for three years from now) is one serious Luka injury (or Luka trade demand) away from being low lottery. That's a good bet if Minnesota really wants to dump Randle. (I wouldn't do it for either team, but the trade proposal itself makes Randle out to be a clear positive).

Regarding the bias against Randle/the Knicks, here is R-Dawg recently proposing a more lopsided (for Minnesota) version of the KAT-Randle trade that actually happened and getting mocked:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400943&p=114689005

I don't think Charlotte makes this exact offer btw. So I wouldn't be holding this offer as some new benchmark of Randle's new value. But I could see something like this happening if Charlotte really wants to make an ill-advised push but likely with some protections on the Dallas pick, like worse of Dallas/Miami/Charlotte 2027 picks top 10 protected....so 1 late 1st and another future 1st that will be out of the lottery.

Most people have Minny losing this trade so I don't find it surprising that a few days ago R-Dawg would get mocked since Minny is getting mocked now in the real world after this trade. I don't have the trade as mock worthy, more I think that Minny made the mistake of trying to make Towns into a 55 million dollar Tobias Harris at PF instead of flipping him in the Gobert trade when his value was higher.

BTW that trade was not more lopsided toward Minny. I have Reid>Hart. I have DDV>Mitch and I have the Det 1st>McBride. Trade was illegal anyways.

[taikibansei]

Most people have Minny losing this trade so I don't find it surprising that a few days ago R-Dawg would get mocked since Minny is getting mocked now in the real world after this trade. I don't have the trade as mock worthy, more I think that Minny made the mistake of trying to make Towns into a 55 million dollar Tobias Harris at PF instead of flipping him in the Gobert trade when his value was higher..

The bold makes absolutely no sense. R-Dawg was mocked because Randle "has no value" and KAT "has more value than" most of the Knicks' roster. Do I need to quote other posters? Hope not. (And again, this is just one thread of many.)

Note, though, that I'm not criticizing "the board," or "the moderators," or "the posters." I do, however, often find the biases here amusing.

BTW that trade was not more lopsided toward Minny. I have Reid>Hart. I have DDV>Mitch and I have the Det 1st>McBride. Trade was illegal anyways.

And I strongly disagree with all three valuations, but then I've always thought that Randle had positive value on the right team. What do I know?

[psman2]

Most people have Minny losing this trade so I don't find it surprising that a few days ago R-Dawg would get mocked since Minny is getting mocked now in the real world after this trade. I don't have the trade as mock worthy, more I think that Minny made the mistake of trying to make Towns into a 55 million dollar Tobias Harris at PF instead of flipping him in the Gobert trade when his value was higher..

The bold makes absolutely no sense. R-Dawg was mocked because Randle "has no value" and KAT "has more value than" most of the Knicks' roster. Do I need to quote other posters? Hope not. (And again, this is just one thread of many.)

Note, though, that I'm not criticizing "the board," or "the moderators," or "the posters." I do, however, often find the biases here amusing.

BTW that trade was not more lopsided toward Minny. I have Reid>Hart. I have DDV>Mitch and I have the Det 1st>McBride. Trade was illegal anyways.

And I strongly disagree with all three valuations, but then I've always thought that Randle had positive value on the right team. What do I know?

Unfortunately this trade does not give us any clear indication of Randle's trade value, or for that matter Towns' either. Funny how that happens sometimes when players with disputed trade value are swapped for each other. I think DDV would have been valued as worth a later 1st/filler on the trade market, and the Det pick with its protections is not a premium pick. So the only thing we really learned here is that Towns was worth more than Randle by that much. From there you can only theorize on how much value Randle had as a stand alone asset.

And I didn't see anyone saying something like this KAT "has more value than" most of the Knicks' roster, and even if someone did why would you play victim over a single outlying evaluation.

[taikibansei]

And I didn't see anyone saying something like this KAT "has more value than" most of the Knicks' roster.

You didn't look very hard. From the first couple of posts:

Karl is worth more than that whole package

I.e., KAT is worth more than a package containing three of our five starters. And don't forget these other posts from the same page of the same thread:

Terrible return for Minny. Julius Randle is not worth his weight in contract

The value is crazy off here. Can’t see MN touching this one.

That's just from the first seven posts to that thread. Heck, and don't forget the 6-page Julius Randle's Value thread just below this one--lot of gems there too.

Next, you wrote:

why would you play victim over a single outlying evaluation.

Here's the definition for that term:

Playing the victim: Playing the victim is the fabrication or exaggeration of victimhood to justify abuse to others, to manipulate others, as a coping strategy, or as attention seeking or diffusion of responsibility.

Let's see, I don't post here nearly enough to need/justify "attention seeking or diffusion of responsibility," nor does this amusing situation impact me sufficiently to require that I find "a coping strategy." By default, I guess you're feeling...abused? If so, I apologize--my noting the truth about a certain posting pattern was not meant to abuse or manipulate you.

[R-DAWG]

BTW all those guys from Charlotte are all negative contract guys, serviceable does not mean desirable.

Again, the salaries coming back (averaging 9 million/year per player) are negligible--i.e., "serviceable" is more than fine here--and that Dallas pick (for three years from now) is one serious Luka injury (or Luka trade demand) away from being low lottery. That's a good bet if Minnesota really wants to dump Randle. (I wouldn't do it for either team, but the trade proposal itself makes Randle out to be a clear positive).

Regarding the bias against Randle/the Knicks, here is R-Dawg recently proposing a more lopsided (for Minnesota) version of the KAT-Randle trade that actually happened and getting mocked:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400943&p=114689005

Thanks for posting this. I question the fit of Randle with Miles Bridges in Charlotte, but if the Hornets wanted to make a run for the play in I could see something like Bridges and the two lowest picks of CHA/MIA/DAL 27 (protections flip into 2028) 1sts for Randle.

For MIN - they get a cost controlled player more willing to accept a bench role and two additional draft assets.

For CHAn- they get the better player

[shrink]

There’s an old adage that you can’t have enough wings, but Ant, DiVincenzo, NAW, McDaniels and Mile Bridges seems like overkill.

But I suppose if they are a commodity, MIN could trade a couple for a PF? Just not aggregate.

[babyjax13]

IMO feels like an overpay for Randle given that he can opt out. Also feels very wrong directionally for Charlotte.