RealGM

Cavs get: Walker Kessler
Utah gets: Ty Jerome and 2031 unprotected first

Why?
Cleveland gets a third big.
Utah gets an unprotected first.

Have teams ever traded an unprotected first in the distant future for a backup player at a position they're already strong in? I can't think of a time that happened. But maybe this could be the first.

YayBasketball wrote:Have teams ever traded an unprotected first in the distant future for a backup player at a position they're already strong in? I can't think of a time that happened. But maybe this could be the first.

The problem is, Cavs back-up C is Tristan Thompson. If Jarrett goes down, Tristan gets to start? Yikes.

Haven’t seen much of the Jazz recently but hasn’t Kessler been bad?

JJ_PR wrote:

YayBasketball wrote:Have teams ever traded an unprotected first in the distant future for a backup player at a position they're already strong in? I can't think of a time that happened. But maybe this could be the first.

The problem is, Cavs back-up C is Tristan Thompson. If Jarrett goes down, Tristan gets to start? Yikes.

You can do that with a lot of backup situations in the league. If ___ goes down, team ___ is in trouble. Seems like Mobley would just shift over to Center with Wade at PF, that could tread water for a while.

JJ_PR wrote:

YayBasketball wrote:Have teams ever traded an unprotected first in the distant future for a backup player at a position they're already strong in? I can't think of a time that happened. But maybe this could be the first.

The problem is, Cavs back-up C is Tristan Thompson. If Jarrett goes down, Tristan gets to start? Yikes.

It's as if you didn't watch the Cavs last year. Mobley moves to C and a wing starts at the 4. TT plays spot backup minutes.

The Cavs could use another big, but honestly that guy should be a stretch big that can play with both Mobley and Allen. Kessler doesn't fit that description.

The Cavs would probably prefer to send rotation guys out rather than pick value, they're a bit too deep at the 2.

The Cavs are not going to trade an unprotected 1st that far out for Kessler. It's just not a thing.

I think if we lotto protect the pick and then it turns into seconds if not conveyed…then maybe value is all right. Is center a position of need for the Cavs though?

Decipher wrote:Haven’t seen much of the Jazz recently but hasn’t Kessler been bad?

No.

babyjax13 wrote:

Decipher wrote:Haven’t seen much of the Jazz recently but hasn’t Kessler been bad?

No.

What's going on with him losing minutes to Collins? Overblown or Collins just fits better?

letsgobulls23 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

Decipher wrote:Haven’t seen much of the Jazz recently but hasn’t Kessler been bad?

No.

What's going on with him losing minutes to Collins? Overblown or Collins just fits better?

Both, really.

Our starting lineup last year had very little on-ball creation. Having a front-court of Lauri-Collins-Kessler meant that you had three players who were primarily off-ball guys, which put tremendous responsibility on some combination of Clarkson/George/Sexton to bend defenses and set up ball movement. Since neither Collins nor Kessler can create with the ball in their hands at all, and Lauri's best traits are being able to create off ball and attack bent defenses, it meant completely neutering everything we did well (this being further compounded by giving a rookie point guard massive responsibility). Shifting Collins to the 5 enabled two things:

1. one more on-ball creator in the starting lineup
2. more spacing for Sexton/George/Clarkson

The second was more critical to making a team with so little effective ball-movement work, but re: 1, we often started Olynyk and/or Fontecchio who offered more creation than Kessler.

The big BUT is that our defense was abysmal, largely because we couldn't fit together a coherent lineup that included Kessler for ~30 minutes. This year we have more creation, Hendricks seems to have taken a bit of a step forward, we have an actual wing on the team (Williams), etc. It appears that we are starting George/Sexton/Lauri/Hendricks/Kessler, and we will see if that lineup has enough ball-movement.

I think *almost* any team that has a roster that makes sense would get way more out of Kessler than Collins. The exception are those few teams that need floor spacing at the center position. FWIW I'm not selling Kessler as anything more than what he is at the moment, which is probably the 20th-25th best center in the league...however he is young, he is already productive, and he does have some upside to be a bit more than that (think ... Zubac with better rim protection and marginally less scoring).

babyjax13 wrote:

letsgobulls23 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:No.

What's going on with him losing minutes to Collins? Overblown or Collins just fits better?

Both, really.

Our starting lineup last year had very little on-ball creation. Having a front-court of Lauri-Collins-Kessler meant that you had three players who were primarily off-ball guys, which put tremendous responsibility on some combination of Clarkson/George/Sexton to bend defenses and set up ball movement. Since neither Collins nor Kessler can create with the ball in their hands at all, and Lauri's best traits are being able to create off ball and attack bent defenses, it meant completely neutering everything we did well (this being further compounded by giving a rookie point guard massive responsibility). Shifting Collins to the 5 enabled two things:

1. one more on-ball creator in the starting lineup
2. more spacing for Sexton/George/Clarkson

The second was more critical to making a team with so little effective ball-movement work, but re: 1, we often started Olynyk and/or Fontecchio who offered more creation than Kessler.

The big BUT is that our defense was abysmal, largely because we couldn't fit together a coherent lineup that included Kessler for ~30 minutes. This year we have more creation, Hendricks seems to have taken a bit of a step forward, we have an actual wing on the team (Williams), etc. It appears that we are starting George/Sexton/Lauri/Hendricks/Kessler, and we will see if that lineup has enough ball-movement.

I think *almost* any team that has a roster that makes sense would get way more out of Kessler than Collins. The exception are those few teams that need floor spacing at the center position. FWIW I'm not selling Kessler as anything more than what he is at the moment, which is probably the 20th-25th best center in the league...however he is young, he is already productive, and he does have some upside to be a bit more than that (think ... Zubac with better rim protection and marginally less scoring).

As a Knicks' fan I am still keeping hope alive that Kessler will be available for trade so the team won't have to rely on the health of Mitch to provide rim protection and defense but it never made sense to me that Utah would trade Kessler to continue playing Collins at the 5. I just assumed part of the reason Collins was starting and was a bigger part of the rotation was to justify trading for him in the first place and maybe hold/build his value.

I saw Kessler was starting in the first preseason game which makes it more difficult for me to imagine he would be traded. I know he may not be a perfect fit but he is still a quality center on a cheap rookie deal that the team can find minutes for. I know a lot of fans assume teams just want to play 5 out but has there been any mention of that with the Jazz? Are there some fatal flaws in his game that would make the organization want to move on from him? How would you describe his strengths and weaknesses at this point in his career?

JayTWill wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

letsgobulls23 wrote:What's going on with him losing minutes to Collins? Overblown or Collins just fits better?

Both, really.

Our starting lineup last year had very little on-ball creation. Having a front-court of Lauri-Collins-Kessler meant that you had three players who were primarily off-ball guys, which put tremendous responsibility on some combination of Clarkson/George/Sexton to bend defenses and set up ball movement. Since neither Collins nor Kessler can create with the ball in their hands at all, and Lauri's best traits are being able to create off ball and attack bent defenses, it meant completely neutering everything we did well (this being further compounded by giving a rookie point guard massive responsibility). Shifting Collins to the 5 enabled two things:

1. one more on-ball creator in the starting lineup
2. more spacing for Sexton/George/Clarkson

The second was more critical to making a team with so little effective ball-movement work, but re: 1, we often started Olynyk and/or Fontecchio who offered more creation than Kessler.

The big BUT is that our defense was abysmal, largely because we couldn't fit together a coherent lineup that included Kessler for ~30 minutes. This year we have more creation, Hendricks seems to have taken a bit of a step forward, we have an actual wing on the team (Williams), etc. It appears that we are starting George/Sexton/Lauri/Hendricks/Kessler, and we will see if that lineup has enough ball-movement.

I think *almost* any team that has a roster that makes sense would get way more out of Kessler than Collins. The exception are those few teams that need floor spacing at the center position. FWIW I'm not selling Kessler as anything more than what he is at the moment, which is probably the 20th-25th best center in the league...however he is young, he is already productive, and he does have some upside to be a bit more than that (think ... Zubac with better rim protection and marginally less scoring).

As a Knicks' fan I am still keeping hope alive that Kessler will be available for trade so the team won't have to rely on the health of Mitch to provide rim protection and defense but it never made sense to me that Utah would trade Kessler to continue playing Collins at the 5. I just assumed part of the reason Collins was starting and was a bigger part of the rotation was to justify trading for him in the first place and maybe hold/build his value.

I saw Kessler was starting in the first preseason game which makes it more difficult for me to imagine he would be traded. I know he may not be a perfect fit but he is still a quality center on a cheap rookie deal that the team can find minutes for. I know a lot of fans assume teams just want to play 5 out but has there been any mention of that with the Jazz? Are there some fatal flaws in his game that would make the organization want to move on from him? How would you describe his strengths and weaknesses at this point in his career?

I think the idea of flipping Collins probably contributed to his role early in the season, but then it became clear we needed floor spacing from the 5 to make up for our anemic offense. It looks like we are not committing to that this year, though, which I am happy about. Currently there are three players on the Jazz who contribute to winning at all: Lauri, Sexton, and Kessler. The rest are dramatically inefficient and/or horrible defenders, or have minimal impact (the latter category is where Collins fits, doesn't really hurt you if he is starting, doesn't really help you that much, either).

Are there fatal flaws in his game? Not really, but you have to need basic, traditional center stuff. He can run the pNr a bit, is a good lob threat, has soft hands, a very good offensive rebounder, etc. His role on offense is exactly what you'd expect, and he is solid and extremely efficient, but plagued by the usual low-volume of rim-running centers without much else to their game. He does seem to think he can shoot threes, and while we have not really permitted that, there have been rumors that he and his 'camp' are unhappy that the team isn't utilizing his full offensive repertoire (but he is one of the worst FT shooters in the league, so no evidence that he can hit them in game). Defensively he is very good. He's not the most mobile, probably best as a drop-big, but doesn't get burned every time he switches. Fantastic defensive anticipation on blocks, very good rebounder, and excellent at positioning himself to keep opposing players off the boards. Defensively he is probably a top 10ish center, which is to say that he is very good though not quite elite on that end.

Not the kind of big CLE needs.

Trading an unprotected 1st that far out is just nuts too.
For Lauri, sure. Kessler, no thanks.