RealGM

GSW looks close to a play-in team right now, with gaps at C and a POA defender. Assuming Kuminga takes the next step (i.e. near 20ppg), and since Steph is locked in, they will look to compete. Wiggins and Gary Payton are likely the the odd bench men out, as their salaries exceed their on court minutes/contribution.

TOR is looking to "rebuild", in the words of their Front Office. They're OK with taking on bad salary, and in this scenario they're going to try to rehab Wiggins mental state with a homecoming reset.



Jak Poeltl + Bruce Brown
for
Andrew Wiggins + Gary Payton + Kevon Looney + '25 GSW 1st (top 8 protected)




New Warriors 11 man rotation:

Steph / Hield / Kuminga / Draymond / Poeltl
Podz / Brown / Moody / SlowMo / TJD
D Melton

Note: With this move, GSW also open up salary room for a mid season buyout addition.

Last year Post ASG, Kuminga was at 17/5/3. This year he's 22 years old, so it's easily possible that he'll exceed 20ppg and develop his shooting.

Brown can be the POA hustle defender alongside Steph.

They can play big or small (eg Kuminga and Draymond can slide up or down one position).

Isn’t GP a POA defender?

JRoy wrote:Isn’t GP a POA defender?

Yeah. But let’s be real. He can’t stay healthy. He was healthy once in 8 years, and now he’s 32.

You could sub Moody for GP here, if GSW won’t pay both Kuminga and Moody next year.

But my memecoin investments in crypto have a better chance of paying off than betting on GPs health.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

JRoy wrote:Isn’t GP a POA defender?

Yeah. But let’s be real. He can’t stay healthy. He was healthy once in 8 years, and now he’s 32.

You could sub Moody for GP here, if GSW won’t pay both Kuminga and Moody next year.

But my memecoin investments in crypto have a better chance of paying off than betting on GPs health.

Lol memecoin.

It seems you value Kuminga much more highly than I do.

Agreed about GP3 health. We had him for a year in POR and it was a dumpster fire.

Honestly I'm fine with it from the Raps perspective

MessiahUjiri wrote:
Jak Poeltl + Bruce Brown
for
Andrew Wiggins + Gary Payton + Kevon Looney + '25 GSW 1st (top 8 protected)


Note: With this move, GSW also open up salary room for a mid season buyout addition.

Not even close. They're sending out $43.4M, taking back 42.5M. Add that difference to the $533k room they currently have under the 1st Apron hard cap and they barely have enough to sign a rookie to fill the 14th spot that they would have to fill by opening day.

xdrta+ wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:
Jak Poeltl + Bruce Brown
for
Andrew Wiggins + Gary Payton + Kevon Looney + '25 GSW 1st (top 8 protected)


Note: With this move, GSW also open up salary room for a mid season buyout addition.

Not even close. They're sending out $43.4M, taking back 42.5M. Add that difference to the $533k room they currently have under the 1st Apron hard cap and they barely have enough to sign a rookie to fill the 14th spot that they would have to fill by opening day.

Ehh I thought mid season buyout salaries are prorated. So they’d sign someone in Feb/Mar and it would be for a portion of the minimum, since they have like 1.5M to play with.

Regardless, they could also send some more filler bench salary if they want more space…or take the trade for it’s face value.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

xdrta+ wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:
Jak Poeltl + Bruce Brown
for
Andrew Wiggins + Gary Payton + Kevon Looney + '25 GSW 1st (top 8 protected)


Note: With this move, GSW also open up salary room for a mid season buyout addition.

Not even close. They're sending out $43.4M, taking back 42.5M. Add that difference to the $533k room they currently have under the 1st Apron hard cap and they barely have enough to sign a rookie to fill the 14th spot that they would have to fill by opening day.

Ehh I thought mid season buyout salaries are prorated. So they’d sign someone in Feb/Mar and it would be for a portion of the minimum, since they have like 1.5M to play with.

Regardless, they could also send some more filler bench salary if they want more space…or take the trade for it’s face value.

They lose a player in the trade which means they have to spend that $1.5M to fill their 14th spot now. Sending any more players would make it worse.

This isn't awful, but it doesn't address a few of our biggest problems, and could make some of them worse.

First of all, Draymond is incredibly valuable to our team as the lynchpin of our defense, but it definitely creates odd dynamics that he isn't a reliable shooter, and teams sag off him to guard bigger threats. People always say, "The Warriors need a center!" But if you put a center on the floor who also can't shoot (like Looney... or TJD...), now it gets really squirmy. We have two guys on the floor who really don't shoot. I like Kuminga a lot. But one of the real risks with him is that he still isn't a reliable shooter. If you play him at the 3 with Draymond and one of our existing centers, that's three guys who don't shoot, and that's a big problem. Replacing our existing centers with Poeltl does nothing to help that. This is how Kerr ends up concluding Kuminga kinda has to play the 4 and/or Draymond needs to play the 5. He's trying to figure out how to get more guys on the floor that can shoot.

Similarly, people say we need a second option. We don't have enough scoring/shooting. It is possible, albeit unlikely, Wiggins could be that guy. While Brown can fill the defensive gap of trading Wiggins, there is just no way that Brown becomes a second scoring option.

So while the value might be close, I doubt this move makes us better. We have some peculiar constraints that are making it hard to build a functional roster, and this trade doesn't help with those constraints at all.

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:This isn't awful, but it doesn't address a few of our biggest problems, and could make some of them worse.

First of all, Draymond is incredibly valuable to our team as the lynchpin of our defense, but it definitely creates odd dynamics that he isn't a reliable shooter, and teams sag off him to guard bigger threats. People always say, "The Warriors need a center!" But if you put a center on the floor who also can't shoot (like Looney... or TJD...), now it gets really squirmy. We have two guys on the floor who really don't shoot. I like Kuminga a lot. But one of the real risks with him is that he still isn't a reliable shooter. If you play him at the 3 with Draymond and one of our existing centers, that's three guys who don't shoot, and that's a big problem. Replacing our existing centers with Poeltl does nothing to help that. This is how Kerr ends up concluding Kuminga kinda has to play the 4 and/or Draymond needs to play the 5. He's trying to figure out how to get more guys on the floor that can shoot.

Similarly, people say we need a second option. We don't have enough scoring/shooting. It is possible, albeit unlikely, Wiggins could be that guy. While Brown can fill the defensive gap of trading Wiggins, there is just no way that Brown becomes a second scoring option.

So while the value might be close, I doubt this move makes us better. We have some peculiar constraints that are making it hard to build a functional roster, and this trade doesn't help with those constraints at all.

Yeah, good thoughts!

This is premised on Kuminga taking the next leap. If you don’t think he can be a 20+ scorer, they shouldn’t do this deal. But if you have Steph at 25+ and Kuminga at 20+, then you can supplement them with a bunch of guys (eg Podz, Buddy, Brown) who can score 12-15.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:This isn't awful, but it doesn't address a few of our biggest problems, and could make some of them worse.

First of all, Draymond is incredibly valuable to our team as the lynchpin of our defense, but it definitely creates odd dynamics that he isn't a reliable shooter, and teams sag off him to guard bigger threats. People always say, "The Warriors need a center!" But if you put a center on the floor who also can't shoot (like Looney... or TJD...), now it gets really squirmy. We have two guys on the floor who really don't shoot. I like Kuminga a lot. But one of the real risks with him is that he still isn't a reliable shooter. If you play him at the 3 with Draymond and one of our existing centers, that's three guys who don't shoot, and that's a big problem. Replacing our existing centers with Poeltl does nothing to help that. This is how Kerr ends up concluding Kuminga kinda has to play the 4 and/or Draymond needs to play the 5. He's trying to figure out how to get more guys on the floor that can shoot.

Similarly, people say we need a second option. We don't have enough scoring/shooting. It is possible, albeit unlikely, Wiggins could be that guy. While Brown can fill the defensive gap of trading Wiggins, there is just no way that Brown becomes a second scoring option.

So while the value might be close, I doubt this move makes us better. We have some peculiar constraints that are making it hard to build a functional roster, and this trade doesn't help with those constraints at all.

Yeah, good thoughts!

This is premised on Kuminga taking the next leap. If you don’t think he can be a 20+ scorer, they shouldn’t do this deal. But if you have Steph at 25+ and Kuminga at 20+, then you can supplement them with a bunch of guys (eg Podz, Buddy, Brown) who can score 12-15.

At this point Kunminga's best scoring threat is attacking the rim. Playing him at SF with a marginal shooter and a non-shooter at PF/C is going to make that harder. That's why he might end up the 2nd highest scorer on the team but play off the bench - getting all the PF minutes Draymond doesn't as well as a few SF minutes.

Problem is Warriors need a stretch 5. Poetl/Green/JK is a horrendous shooting and spacing frontcourt.

Warriors pass imo. Now if Olynk is the C in question……

NW wrote:Problem is Warriors need a stretch 5. Poetl/Green/JK is a horrendous shooting and spacing frontcourt.

Warriors pass imo. Now if Olynk is the C in question……

Great suggestion.

I think Raps still do the original deal if you wanna sub out Poeltl for Olynyk.

MessiahUjiri wrote:GSW looks close to a play-in team right now, with gaps at C and a POA defender. Assuming Kuminga takes the next step (i.e. near 20ppg), and since Steph is locked in, they will look to compete. Wiggins and Gary Payton are likely the the odd bench men out, as their salaries exceed their on court minutes/contribution.

TOR is looking to "rebuild", in the words of their Front Office. They're OK with taking on bad salary, and in this scenario they're going to try to rehab Wiggins mental state with a homecoming reset.



Jak Poeltl + Bruce Brown
for
Andrew Wiggins + Gary Payton + Kevon Looney + '25 GSW 1st (top 8 protected)




New Warriors 11 man rotation:

Steph / Hield / Kuminga / Draymond / Poeltl
Podz / Brown / Moody / SlowMo / TJD
D Melton

Note: With this move, GSW also open up salary room for a mid season buyout addition.

Last year Post ASG, Kuminga was at 17/5/3. This year he's 22 years old, so it's easily possible that he'll exceed 20ppg and develop his shooting.

Brown can be the POA hustle defender alongside Steph.

They can play big or small (eg Kuminga and Draymond can slide up or down one position).

I suggested this exact trade a couple of months ago in this thread https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400844&hilit=Wiggins, so yes I still like it for both teams.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

NW wrote:Problem is Warriors need a stretch 5. Poetl/Green/JK is a horrendous shooting and spacing frontcourt.

Warriors pass imo. Now if Olynk is the C in question……

Great suggestion.

I think Raps still do the original deal if you wanna sub out Poeltl for Olynyk.

That makes more sense for the Raps

I like Olynyk a lot for the Warriors. If Moody gets lost in the shuffle of all the wings the Dubs have, a straight up deal might be interesting.

Replacing Poeltl with Olynyk makes more sense for the Warriors. Kuminga and Green can't shoot.

The Raptors need a true center otherwise they are one of the worst front courts in the NBA.

Poeltl - Looney
Wiggins - Boucher
Barnes - Agbaji
Barrett - Dick
Quickely - Mitchell

Olynyk - TJD
Green - SlowMo
Kuminga - Moody
Hield - Brown
Curry - Podz

It's insanity that anyone would choose Olynyk over Poetl. Spacing be damned, Poetl is 10x the player Olynyk is. GSW won a title with Looney and Draymond as their frontcourt, and Poetl is better than Looney. They don't need a stretch C so bad that they would choose a pylon like Olynyk over Poetl.

realball wrote:It's insanity that anyone would choose Olynyk over Poetl. Spacing be damned, Poetl is 10x the player Olynyk is. GSW won a title with Looney and Draymond as their frontcourt, and Poetl is better than Looney. They don't need a stretch C so bad that they would choose a pylon like Olynyk over Poetl.

A. Looney typically wasn’t in there when things were critical. It was either Draymond at the 5 with shooters or Otto Porter at the 5.

B. When they do have Looney and Dray, they were surrounded by Steph, Klay and a Wiggins who was a solid shooter that year

realball wrote:It's insanity that anyone would choose Olynyk over Poetl. Spacing be damned, Poetl is 10x the player Olynyk is. GSW won a title with Looney and Draymond as their frontcourt, and Poetl is better than Looney. They don't need a stretch C so bad that they would choose a pylon like Olynyk over Poetl.

I think GS would be angling to pay less than a 1st here for a better fit in KellyO. The Brown- Wiggins portion can dropped.