Lakers/Pelicans/Spurs

louc1970 · Post #1 » by **louc1970** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 4:55 pm

Lakers send Russell/Hachimura
Lakers receive JRE/McCollum

Lakers move 2 players they have been rumored to want to move for a while and return a player who shoot as well as anyone and on a short contract.

Pelicans trade JRE/McCollum/Ingram
Pelicans receive Collins/Johnson/Russell/Hachimura/25 FRP (via Bulls)/25 FRP (via Charlotte)

Pelicans get a player capable of being a part-time starting center in Collins. Getting Russell on a final year, Hachimura either gets moved on or kept as Willaimson's backup. Johnson is on a declining contract. But getting 2 more picks and shedding salary puts them $20M below tax next year making the resign of Murphy easy.

Spurs trade Collins/Johnson/2 FRPS (Bulls/Hornets)
Spurs get Ingram

Spurs land a great compliment Wembanyama, a player who can score and relieve pressure, plus make plays. The 2 picks probably do not convey any time soon, so no loss.

giberish · Post #2 » by **giberish** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:24 pm

2 1sts for ingram feels like a lot. SA should have cap space next summer to make a run at someone (Ingram if they want to) without giving up picks. (I'm assuming those 1sts aren't so well protected that they're likely to become 2nds - if that is the case than the value's fine).

I also can't see NO dealing CJ and Ingram and still not having a center above 3rd string quality (Collins was quite crap last year).

psman2 · Post #3 » by **psman2** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:38 pm

Spurs are not doing this, maybe in another year or two they can do a move like this but too early right now. The really need to identify their non wemby core before doing this.

IMO I rather just keep Russell/Hachimura combo over CJ. Russell is in CJ's tier already, and Rui is a 25+ rotation worth guy. Just don't see the upside of this move for them.

wemby · Post #4 » by **wemby** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:40 pm

louc1970 wrote:Spurs trade Collins/Johnson/2 FRPS (Bulls/Hornets)
Spurs get Ingram

Spurs land a great compliment Wembanyama, a player who can score and relieve pressure, plus make plays. The 2 picks probably do not convey any time soon, so no loss.

This doesn't work for the Spurs:
1) I don't see Ingram as a perfect complement for Wemby, Ingram is best in the midrange and we need floor spacers which he isn't. Also his availability is not good, and unlikelyl to get better as he ages.
2) Ingram is set to become a FA next offseason and expects a max contract, I don't think he's worthy of a max, and definitely Spurs don't need a rental to raise their floor for a season, that's the exact opposite of what they should be doing. So it's bad if you re-sign him, bad if you don't kind of scenario.
3) If Spurs were interested in Ingram, it'd be cheaper to clean some salary and make a run at hiim in free agency.
So it's a pass from my standpoint.

Chinook · Post #5 » by **Chinook** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:36 pm

I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

kobe_vs_jordan · Post #6 » by **kobe_vs_jordan** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:46 pm

Only benefits pelicans imo. Not cj and Dlo same tier of player and problems imo. CJ twice the price.

Rather have Rui than JRE.

Post #7 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 9:43 pm

Chinook wrote:I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

kobe_vs_jordan · Post #8 » by **kobe_vs_jordan** » Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:41 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

Why would they won’t to dump those contracts? Collin’s expires next season and Keldon contract is a bargain.

axeman23 · Post #9 » by **axeman23** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 12:13 am

Seems to be heavily slanted toward NO. Spurs and Lakers not getting a lot of incentive, an NO move off a guy they don't want to resign, and another making above market value on the downside of his career. What is NO actually giving UP that HURTS?

wemby · Post #10 » by **wemby** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 1:45 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

They just took Barnes in who has a contract nearly identical to Collins, so no, they're not looking to dump money otherwise they would have passed. Collins and Barnes become expirings next season and, since Spurs have a pick swap with the Hawks, that's probably when they pivot using those as filler for some long term pieces.

As for Keldon, he may or may not be a long term piece (not on the Wemby-Vassell-Castle level) but his contract is very reasonable and he's proven he can be an efficient volume scorer when he isn't expected to be the focal point of the offense, which unfortunately happened way too often in the past couple of tanking seasons. He'll look much better as a 3rd / 4th option as he should have always been.

Post #11 » by **jbk1234** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:08 am

wemby wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

They just took Barnes in who has a contract nearly identical to Collins, so no, they're not looking to dump money otherwise they would have passed. Collins and Barnes become expirings next season and, since Spurs have a pick swap with the Hawks, that's probably when they pivot using those as filler for some long term pieces.

As for Keldon, he may or may not be a long term piece (not on the Wemby-Vassell-Castle level) but his contract is very reasonable and he's proven he can be an efficient volume scorer when he isn't expected to be the focal point of the offense, which unfortunately happened way too often in the past couple of tanking seasons. He'll look much better as a 3rd / 4th option as he should have always been.

I totally get the Spurs rebuilding in Wemby’s second year, especially ahead of the 2025 draft. That said, you don't want to burn through too many years of his rookie contract, nor do you want to ask Vassell to play on a bottom 5 team for too many years. The Spurs got some good draft capital for eating two years of Barnes deal, and Barnes may give the Spurs more on the court production than Collins or Keldon.

Chinook · Post #12 » by **Chinook** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:07 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

You're going to continue to be surprised that the Spurs like Johnson more than you think they should. I think you let your personal feelings about him get in the way of your read of his place on the team.

Post #13 » by **jbk1234** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:40 pm

Chinook wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:I don't think the Spurs would do this even without the picks attached.

Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

You're going to continue to be surprised that the Spurs like Johnson more than you think they should. I think you let your personal feelings about him get in the way of your read of his place on the team.

I don't have personal feelings about Keldon Johnson one way or the other. I have basketball related feelings about fans treating bench players on contracts that are too big for that role as assets in trade proposals.

The reality is that if the Spurs do end up with a good pick next summer, and they want to expedite their rebuild, they'll barely have any cap space to work with. They'll either have to offer compensation to a third team to eat Barnes, Collins, and/or Johnson, or they'll have to postpone exiting the rebuild for another season.

Sochan comes off his rookie deal in 2026, Wemby the next summer.

So yes, I think the Spurs would gladly trade Collins and Johnson for Ingram's expiring contract (which they could then flip at the deadline).

Chinook · Post #14 » by **Chinook** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 5:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:
jbk1234 wrote: Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

You're going to continue to be surprised that the Spurs like Johnson more than you think they should. I think you let your personal feelings about him get in the way of your read of his place on the team.

I don't have personal feelings about Keldon Johnson one way or the other. I have basketball related feelings about fans treating bench players on contracts that are too big for that role as assets in trade proposals.

The reality is that if the Spurs do end up with a good pick next summer, and they want to expedite their rebuild, they'll barely have any cap space to work with. They'll either have to offer compensation to a third team to eat Barnes, Collins, and/or Johnson, or they'll have to postpone exiting the rebuild for another season.

Sochan comes off his rookie deal in 2026, Wemby the next summer.

So yes, I think the Spurs would gladly trade Collins and Johnson for Ingram's expiring contract (which they could then flip at the deadline).

You have personal feelings about Johnson's value and are assuming other people feel the same way. You can think Johnson is a bad player while also understanding the Spurs don't think so.

wemby · Post #15 » by **wemby** » Tue Oct 15, 2024 6:50 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Chinook wrote:
jbk1234 wrote: Color me skeptical that if the Spurs had the opportunity to dump out of those contracts they wouldn't.

You're going to continue to be surprised that the Spurs like Johnson more than you think they should. I think you let your personal feelings about him get in the way of your read of his place on the team.

I don't have personal feelings about Keldon Johnson one way or the other. I have basketball related feelings about fans treating bench players on contracts that are too big for that role as assets in trade proposals.

The reality is that if the Spurs do end up with a good pick next summer, and they want to expedite their rebuild, they'll barely have any cap space to work with. They'll either have to offer compensation to a third team to eat Barnes, Collins, and/or Johnson, or they'll have to postpone exiting the rebuild for another season.

Sochan comes off his rookie deal in 2026, Wemby the next summer.

So yes, I think the Spurs would gladly trade Collins and Johnson for Ingram's expiring contract (which they could then flip at the deadline).

Johnson is actually quite a skilled offensive player, and was pretty efficient when there was a team in place. The last couple of years his efficiency suffered as he played in a team built to lose, and forced create for himself more than he should and take bad shots. Imagine you take Garland and Mitchell off the Cavs, you play Okoro at PG and you have Mobley take a bigger offensive role. You expect his efficiency to go up? If not, why would you with Keldon? But within a team and as a third / fourth option, he's perfectly fine, and an average of 18M a year for his production is absolutely not a bad contract in today's NBA.
Dude is more talented than you think, he might have his defensive limitations but he can play:

Watch on YouTube