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Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 3:41 pm
by lordjeff05
Simmons brought this up in his podcast, and I've been wondering about it myself for a bit. What could the Pels get if they wanted to trade Trey Murphy. This is a sacrilegious thought to many Pels fans but if New Orleans keeps Ingram, they can't keep Murphy. Who is the best center they could get for him, either straight up or in a combination of other non Zion, BI, Murray assets.
For those wondering why I'd trade Murhpy, I just think Ingram's upside and shot creating ability are better even if Murphy is a better fit with Zion. I still think Ingram can be the second best player on a contender and I dont see a path for Murphy to be that.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:18 pm
by Mrakar
I dont see a path for Pelicans to be a serious team with Ingram sa starting forward, now even less with Murray who is same player at point guard.
Path for Pelicans becomming serious team is simple:
1. Fire Willie Green, he has no balls to be an NBA coach
2. Trade Ingram for scraps
3. Develop Murphy and Hawkins into best versions of themselves.
Imagine Zion on the court with 2 of the best sharpshooters in the league?
Instead of that he has Murray, Ingram, Herb and Theis out there... Herb is by far the best shooter and he is not a willing shooter and opponents dont respect his shot enough dispite the percentages...
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:18 pm
by louc1970
I get the premise. And if you can get an upper tier center for a part time starter, you do it.
For those that feel Murphy and Jones are exceptional, I challenge with what can NOP get if they move Williamson.
A lineup of Murray, Jones, Murphy, Ingram, and the return of what Willaimson could bring plus picks, sets NOP up for the next 5-8 years.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:22 pm
by louc1970
Mrakar wrote:
Imagine Zion on the court with 2 of the best sharpshooters in the league?
I
Until Williamson gets hurt, again.
He is amazing when he plays, but it is hard to plan around him.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 5:25 pm
by Mrakar
louc1970 wrote:Mrakar wrote:
Imagine Zion on the court with 2 of the best sharpshooters in the league?
I
Until Williamson gets hurt, again.
He is amazing when he plays, but it is hard to plan around him.
I am in it to win it. Sadly New Orleans coaching staff and front office are in it to keep their jobs. They just want to keep enough people interested and not end up in lottery.
Zion can be best player on championship team. Ingram can't. I would rather try to win a championship with Zion and fail, then don't even try with Ingram.
louc1970 wrote:I get the premise. And if you can get an upper tier center for a part time starter, you do it.
For those that feel Murphy and Jones are exceptional, I challenge with what can NOP get if they move Williamson.
A lineup of Murray, Jones, Murphy, Ingram, and the return of what Willaimson could bring plus picks, sets NOP up for the next 5-8 years.
That sets up New Orleans for 5-8 years of mediocrity.
I honestly hope that you watched Ingram and Murray play. I hope that you watched New Orleans last season, but i doubt you did since you are writing something like that.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 5:38 pm
by nate33
It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and maybe Turner. And you can also eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who definitely aren't available.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 5:51 pm
by zimpy27
You trade Ingram for Ayton before you consider this
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:08 pm
by psman2
Usually wings like Murphy will carry a lot more value than a non top 12 center but at this time with the season about to tip off finding a center trade that matches up in value is going to a really tough find. I think it better to just go the super cheap route they are going versus a short sighted trade where they lose value. Even trading for a guy like Allen doesn't really fit roster wise next to Zion. A cheap move for a Kelly O or or Goga type is the trade I expect if we see any this season. Maybe IJAX if Indy doesn't want to pay him and Wiseman has shown enough this preseason. I would offer up a protected 1st for OO if Atlanta isn't sold on him as the future there, likely part of a Ingram trade to a 3rd team.
Honestly NO is not going to win anything big this year no matter what they do, I would take the best Ingram offer I can get that gives future assets and just play out the season.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:15 pm
by daoneandonly
nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Gafford did not really get played off the floor for the Mavs last postseason. He was a huge part of their success.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:21 pm
by mademan
Hard to find a C thats worth it that another team would trade. After they trade Ingram (its gonna happen at some point), they'll have filler salary to trade for a starting level C, like Poeltl.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:25 pm
by babyjax13
This feels like a Myles Turner + assets level deal, but I don't see that as a fit for Indiana. Maybe Sengun could be a target? Or Allen?
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:32 pm
by nate33
daoneandonly wrote:nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Gafford did not really get played off the floor for the Mavs last postseason. He was a huge part of their success.
I'm a Wizards fan, so I like Gafford very much and I know his game. He is a great rim runner on offense, and a good rim protector against the right matchup on defense.
But he is matchup dependent on defense. He can't guard big burly centers, and he is not that switchable in space. Also, he is a high effort guy who can't log major minutes. Dallas made it work because they platooned him with Lively, but he was down to 15 minutes a game in the Finals against Boston. Dallas was also fortunate enough to not face Denver, Philly or the Lakers who had the size at center to give Gafford problems.
I guarantee New Orleans wouldn't consider trading Murphy for Gafford.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:37 pm
by gswhoops
nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Of these names the only ones that seem vaguely within the realm of possibility that would also make sense for NO are JJJ, Turner, and maybe Mobley?
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:39 pm
by daoneandonly
nate33 wrote:daoneandonly wrote:nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Gafford did not really get played off the floor for the Mavs last postseason. He was a huge part of their success.
I'm a Wizards fan, so I like Gafford very much and I know his game. He is a great rim runner on offense, and a good rim protector against the right matchup on defense.
But he is matchup dependent on defense. He can't guard big burly centers, and he is not that switchable in space. Also, he is a high effort guy who can't log major minutes. Dallas made it work because they platooned him with Lively, but he was down to 15 minutes a game in the Finals against Boston. Dallas was also fortunate enough to not face Denver, Philly or the Lakers who had the size at center to give Gafford problems.
I guarantee New Orleans wouldn't consider trading Murphy for Gafford.
I dont deny the last statement, wouldnt suggest they would. Though as a Mavs fan, I'd obviously make that trade without much hesitation. But not only would Pels not do iot like you said, there's not even a realistic way to make it happen since Trey makes so little.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:41 pm
by Scoot McGroot
gswhoops wrote:nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Of these names the only ones that seem vaguely within the realm of possibility that would also make sense for NO are JJJ, Turner, and maybe Mobley?
Turner seems a possibility if Indy isn’t confident of resigning him. I can’t imagine JJJ or Mobley would be possibilities though.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:44 pm
by nate33
Scoot McGroot wrote:gswhoops wrote:nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Of these names the only ones that seem vaguely within the realm of possibility that would also make sense for NO are JJJ, Turner, and maybe Mobley?
Turner seems a possibility if Indy isn’t confident of resigning him. I can’t imagine JJJ or Mobley would be possibilities though.
Yeah, I suppose Turner isn't quite in the "indispensable" tier and more in the Allen/Zubac "good but conceivably movable" tier.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:07 pm
by LarsV8
Steven Adams + whatever our 2025 1st ends up being.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:19 pm
by psman2
LarsV8 wrote:Steven Adams + whatever our 2025 1st ends up being.
So a later 1st and a center NO already paid to turn into Val in Adam's prime?
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:37 pm
by gswhoops
Scoot McGroot wrote:gswhoops wrote:nate33 wrote:It's hard to even think of a fair value match.
Center is a weird position that way. Half the centers in the league are mostly just place-holders. They can eat minutes, but they will get played off the floor in a 2nd round playoff series. I'm talking about guys like Valanciunas, Kessler, Valanciunas, Nurkic, WCJ, Claxton, Gafford, Capela, Poeltl and Vucevic. If I'm New Orleans, I would never trade a high quality two-way wing like Murphy for a guy who can't hang in a second round series. I also wouldn't trade him for an injury risk like Mitchell Robinson or Robert Williams.
But the next tier of guys who can stay on the floor in the playoffs are highly valuable and are therefore likely to be totally unavailable. I'm talking about guys like Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Bam, Gobert, Wemby, Sabonis, Porzingis, JJJ, and Turner. And you can eliminate the high potential young guys like Chet, Mobley and Lively who are also out of the question.
There are very few guys between these two extremes that I would consider fair value, but not so valuable that they can't be moved. Maybe a guy like Zubac or Jarrett Allen? I'm struggling to come up with other names.
Of these names the only ones that seem vaguely within the realm of possibility that would also make sense for NO are JJJ, Turner, and maybe Mobley?
Turner seems a possibility if Indy isn’t confident of resigning him. I can’t imagine JJJ or Mobley would be possibilities though.
I put them on there because of injury and/or fit concerns, but generally I agree with you. By vaguely within the realm of possibility, I meant like a 1% chance rather than like a 0.00000001% chance.
Re: Trey Murphy for a Center
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:55 pm
by dirkforpres
Gafford for Murphy as the framework of a trade makes a lot of sense, but I shiver at the thought of Dallas reverting back to having Dwight Powell be the primary backup C.