RealGM

The Timberwolves have looked to find a trade for veteran Keita Bates-Diop, sources said, to allow Minnesota to keep a personal favorite of president Tim Connelly on the roster: PJ Dozier.

Jake Fischer

Any predictions of a team willing to absorb his vet min deal for free?

MIN can’t send out cash because of apron restrictions, Dozier is only guaranteed for $1 mil, so MIN would probably waive him to get down to 15 before they included one of their limited 2nds to pay a team to take KBD.

I’m not sure he gets signed once he clears waivers. Yeah he’s played every season since he got drafted, but I just don’t see a team just absorbing his contract. If any trade, it would be a player for player trade in my opinion.

Who knows though, maybe Charlotte takes him for the second round pick.

yea i dont see why any team will take him for free

Godaddycurse wrote:yea i dont see why any team will take him for free

The only possible reason is a team would be afraid someone else might grab him and want to secure the contract. That said, I doubt very much that any team is worried about not securing KBD outside of an immediate trade.

chrbal wrote:I’m not sure he gets signed once he clears waivers. Yeah he’s played every season since he got drafted, but I just don’t see a team just absorbing his contract. If any trade, it would be a player for player trade in my opinion.

Who knows though, maybe Charlotte takes him for the second round pick.

I could see a team happy to sign him for a non gtd vet minimum. But he’s paid $600k over the vet minimum, and it’s not compensated by the league to bring him back down to a vet minimum for tax purposes, etc, so it’s just not a huge want? But I could def see Indy trying to sign him for he 15th spot on a true vet minimum.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

chrbal wrote:I’m not sure he gets signed once he clears waivers. Yeah he’s played every season since he got drafted, but I just don’t see a team just absorbing his contract. If any trade, it would be a player for player trade in my opinion.

Who knows though, maybe Charlotte takes him for the second round pick.

I could see a team happy to sign him for a non gtd vet minimum. But he’s paid $600k over the vet minimum, and it’s not compensated by the league to bring him back down to a vet minimum for tax purposes, etc, so it’s just not a huge want? But I could def see Indy trying to sign him for he 15th spot on a true vet minimum.

I have been confused by this for about a month.

Spotrac says KBD was signed in PHX using the vet min exception, and vet min deals can be 1 or 2 years. Does this mean Year One is vet min, but the player option wasn’t, and is now just a standard contract? Is it illegal for a contract to have a “vet min” option on it, because it would make more sense for both PHX and about the same for KDB to do it that way, and have the league pay the difference?

shrink wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

chrbal wrote:I’m not sure he gets signed once he clears waivers. Yeah he’s played every season since he got drafted, but I just don’t see a team just absorbing his contract. If any trade, it would be a player for player trade in my opinion.

Who knows though, maybe Charlotte takes him for the second round pick.

I could see a team happy to sign him for a non gtd vet minimum. But he’s paid $600k over the vet minimum, and it’s not compensated by the league to bring him back down to a vet minimum for tax purposes, etc, so it’s just not a huge want? But I could def see Indy trying to sign him for he 15th spot on a true vet minimum.

I have been confused by this for about a month.

Spotrac says KBD was signed in PHX using the vet min exception, and vet min deals can be 1 or 2 years. Does this mean Year One is vet min, but the player option wasn’t, and is now just a standard contract? Is it illegal for a contract to have a “vet min” option on it, because it would make more sense for both PHX and about the same for KDB to do it that way, and have the league pay the difference?

The min exception can apply to one- or two-year contracts, but the rebate only happens with one-year deals. So Keita isn't getting any more money this year by being on the second year of a deal as opposed to signing a new one-year deal as a free agent this summer. However, a team acquiring him in a trade would owe more in salary and potentially tax than they would if he were a free agent they signed.

So if a team is taking him on, it probably makes sense that they'd want cash or other compensation to account for the extra money they're paying. I like Keita a lot and think he's a viable role-player, but I doubt there's such a market for his services that a team would consider not having to bid for him legit incentive to pay the difference.

It seems like Keita isn't with the team at this point, but I can't see the Wolves eating the $13-15M (salary plus luxury tax) to waive him. I'll be curious to see if the Wolves end up paying a 2nd to someone to get him off the books.

They probably should have worked this out in the KAT trade..

Trade a swap of 2026 pick to OKC or SAS, it's a 2nd degree swap after UTA, not worth much, but worth enough to eat vet min contract.

zimpy27 wrote:They probably should have worked this out in the KAT trade..

It was a little curious. New York had to send out 3-4 contracts, and they probably didn’t carre which ones MIN or CHA took. The Wolves ended up with the vet. Was that a coincidence because MIN preferred KBD because they are a contender, or did CHA refuse KDB because he’s a little more expensive than the “vet min + $1” players CHA received and waived?

I agree that if KBD isn’t a vet min, any team that wants him will likely just hope he gets bought out, and they’ll sign him to a vet min deal. However, I still think it’s unlikely. Tim Connelly might like his old buddy PJ Dozier, but he was the one who negotiated that it’s only worth $1 mil guaranteed. If the three options are trade KDB with a 2nd, waive KDB, or waive Dozier, I think the prudent choice considering lux taxes is to drop PJ. I guess we’ll know in the next two days.

For what it’s worth PJ dozier has a skillset that’s intriguing enough to spend a second to dump KDB .
He’s been on the verge of breaking out sooner or later since forever. Been high on him since his OKC days .

Scoot McGroot wrote:

chrbal wrote:I’m not sure he gets signed once he clears waivers. Yeah he’s played every season since he got drafted, but I just don’t see a team just absorbing his contract. If any trade, it would be a player for player trade in my opinion.

Who knows though, maybe Charlotte takes him for the second round pick.

I could see a team happy to sign him for a non gtd vet minimum. But he’s paid $600k over the vet minimum, and it’s not compensated by the league to bring him back down to a vet minimum for tax purposes, etc, so it’s just not a huge want? But I could def see Indy trying to sign him for he 15th spot on a true vet minimum.

Yeah. I didn’t say I don’t think any team will sign him, just that I don’t think it’s a guarantee. I can see him get signed to a team following a trade or significant injury to a player. He’s more likely to go to a playoff team and it could be a while with a lot of them dealing with tax issues.

If MIN trades away or waives KDB’s $2.65 mil contract, then they keep Dozier, so his $1 mil guarantee becomes a standard $2.09. Here’s the taxable payroll for the three options.

1. Waive KBD $4.74 mil, ($2.65 dead money)
2. Waive Dozier. $3.65 mil, ($1 mil dead money)
3. Trade KBD with 2nd: $2.09 mil, ($0 dead money)

I suppose with the lux taxes the owner would have to pay on the $1.55 mil difference (between #2 and #3), it might be worth a 2nd. But Connelly would need to greatly prefer Dozier to give up a 2nd, and the owners would have to care more about those incremental lux taxes than losing one of their few remaining 2nds.

shrink wrote:If MIN trades away or waives KDB’s $2.65 mil contract, then they keep Dozier, so his $1 mil guarantee becomes a standard $2.09. Here’s the taxable payroll for the three options.

1. Waive KBD $4.74 mil, ($2.65 dead money)
2. Waive Dozier. $3.65 mil, ($1 mil dead money)
3. Trade KBD with 2nd: $2.09 mil, ($0 dead money)

I suppose with the lux taxes the owner would have to pay on the $1.55 mil difference (between #2 and #3), it might be worth a 2nd. But Connelly would need to greatly prefer Dozier to give up a 2nd, and the owners would have to care more about those incremental lux taxes than losing one of their few remaining 2nds.

I think they eventually just waive Dozier unless they can trade him and the new team is only on the hook for the guaranteed money.

shrink wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

chrbal wrote:I’m not sure he gets signed once he clears waivers. Yeah he’s played every season since he got drafted, but I just don’t see a team just absorbing his contract. If any trade, it would be a player for player trade in my opinion.

Who knows though, maybe Charlotte takes him for the second round pick.

I could see a team happy to sign him for a non gtd vet minimum. But he’s paid $600k over the vet minimum, and it’s not compensated by the league to bring him back down to a vet minimum for tax purposes, etc, so it’s just not a huge want? But I could def see Indy trying to sign him for he 15th spot on a true vet minimum.

I have been confused by this for about a month.

Spotrac says KBD was signed in PHX using the vet min exception, and vet min deals can be 1 or 2 years. Does this mean Year One is vet min, but the player option wasn’t, and is now just a standard contract? Is it illegal for a contract to have a “vet min” option on it, because it would make more sense for both PHX and about the same for KDB to do it that way, and have the league pay the difference?

Vet minimum is only reimbursed by the league on one year deals. Adding an option year, which someone wants (player or team) for value eliminates the reimbursable, so the cap hit is equal to what their actual minimum salary is based on years of service, rather than equal to a 2 year vet minimum salary.

So, a guy like KBD signed a 2 year vet minimum contract, but his cap hit was higher than the “vet minimum” because it was a multi year deal, rather than a one year deal, and actual vet minimum salary was higher than a 2 yos vet minimum.

…if that makes sense? I rambled a bit, I admit.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

shrink wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:I could see a team happy to sign him for a non gtd vet minimum. But he’s paid $600k over the vet minimum, and it’s not compensated by the league to bring him back down to a vet minimum for tax purposes, etc, so it’s just not a huge want? But I could def see Indy trying to sign him for he 15th spot on a true vet minimum.

I have been confused by this for about a month.

Spotrac says KBD was signed in PHX using the vet min exception, and vet min deals can be 1 or 2 years. Does this mean Year One is vet min, but the player option wasn’t, and is now just a standard contract? Is it illegal for a contract to have a “vet min” option on it, because it would make more sense for both PHX and about the same for KDB to do it that way, and have the league pay the difference?

Vet minimum is only reimbursed by the league on one year deals. Adding an option year, which someone wants (player or team) for value eliminates the reimbursable, so the cap hit is equal to what their actual minimum salary is based on years of service, rather than equal to a 2 year vet minimum salary.

So, a guy like KND signed a 2 year vet minimum contract, but his cap hit was higher than the “vet minimum” because it was a multi year deal, rather than a one year deal, and actual vet minimum salary was higher than a 2 yos vet minimum.

…if that makes sense? I rambled a bit, I admit.

Made sense. I’ve been here forever, and I still learn something new here all the time.

Thanks Scoot and Chinook!

EDIT: btw, since I’m already asking for help … I know the most recent CBA changed the boundaries (not every $5 mil any more) and rates (lower/lower, higher/higher) for lux taxes, but I don’t know of a good site to see what those new rates and boundaries are. I always used our boy Larry Coon’s numbers before when calculating taxes by hand, but it’s out of date. Anyone got a good link?

shrink wrote:EDIT: btw, since I’m already asking for help … I know the most recent CBA changed the boundaries (not every $5 mil any more) and rates (lower/lower, higher/higher) for lux taxes, but I don’t know of a good site to see what those new rates and boundaries are. I always used our boy Larry Coon’s numbers before when calculating taxes by hand, but it’s out of date. Anyone got a good link?

The easiest way is the CBA itself, Article VII, Section 2 (d) (i). Going to page 207 at the link gets you there. The charts are there with examples.

Edit: The page numbers a little confusing. It's actually page 183 in the document but I find I have to put in 207 in the page icon to get there.

shrink wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

shrink wrote:I have been confused by this for about a month.

Spotrac says KBD was signed in PHX using the vet min exception, and vet min deals can be 1 or 2 years. Does this mean Year One is vet min, but the player option wasn’t, and is now just a standard contract? Is it illegal for a contract to have a “vet min” option on it, because it would make more sense for both PHX and about the same for KDB to do it that way, and have the league pay the difference?

Vet minimum is only reimbursed by the league on one year deals. Adding an option year, which someone wants (player or team) for value eliminates the reimbursable, so the cap hit is equal to what their actual minimum salary is based on years of service, rather than equal to a 2 year vet minimum salary.

So, a guy like KND signed a 2 year vet minimum contract, but his cap hit was higher than the “vet minimum” because it was a multi year deal, rather than a one year deal, and actual vet minimum salary was higher than a 2 yos vet minimum.

…if that makes sense? I rambled a bit, I admit.

Made sense. I’ve been here forever, and I still learn something new here all the time.

Thanks Scoot and Chinook!

EDIT: btw, since I’m already asking for help … I know the most recent CBA changed the boundaries (not every $5 mil any more) and rates (lower/lower, higher/higher) for lux taxes, but I don’t know of a good site to see what those new rates and boundaries are. I always used our boy Larry Coon’s numbers before when calculating taxes by hand, but it’s out of date. Anyone got a good link?

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2023/06/2023-CBA-Summary.pdf

Pages 3 and 4 of that document. This is what I constantly reach back to in order to remind myself of the new changes.

Edit: but realized after linking this you probably wanted the actual brackets, not the costs. Def my bad there.