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Roughly MLE money for a shooting wing with good size. Feels about right.

decent rotation money for a decent rotation player. no complaints here

Deal is fine. But its another goodish player locked up long term with no star or potential star in place. So I continue to hate how Washington does their business.

But it also saves me from creating a bunch of Kispert for 2nd rounders threads at the deadline I otherwise would have so....

Texas Chuck wrote:Deal is fine. But its another goodish player locked up long term with no star or potential star in place. So I continue to hate how Washington does their business.

But it also saves me from creating a bunch of Kispert for 2nd rounders threads at the deadline I otherwise would have so....

can still be done/he should fit into MLE exception even w/ poison pill (i think)

Godaddycurse wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Deal is fine. But its another goodish player locked up long term with no star or potential star in place. So I continue to hate how Washington does their business.

But it also saves me from creating a bunch of Kispert for 2nd rounders threads at the deadline I otherwise would have so....

can still be done/he should fit into MLE exception even w/ poison pill (i think)

I don't see teams lining up to take on that contract. I could see a team though willing to take a flier on him with no commitment but still RFA rights if he fit.

Is he any better than Lonnie Walker or Taurean Prince?

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I like the deal for Washington. They need spacing, and if he pops in a larger role, he's good trade bait.

Laimbeer wrote:Is he any better than Lonnie Walker or Taurean Prince?

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In a team concept? Almost certainly. He provides space for your best players. That tends to be more valuable than players who are just okay at a variety of things. Obviously on a playoff team he would have to show he could defend at a playoff level or he gets marginalized, but yeah he's more valuable to NBA teams than those guys imo.

1 on 1 he probably isn't competitive against either. But who cares.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:Is he any better than Lonnie Walker or Taurean Prince?

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In a team concept? Almost certainly. He provides space for your best players. That tends to be more valuable than players who are just okay at a variety of things. Obviously on a playoff team he would have to show he could defend at a playoff level or he gets marginalized, but yeah he's more valuable to NBA teams than those guys imo.

1 on 1 he probably isn't competitive against either. But who cares.

2024 3P%, Age

Kispert 38.3%, 25
Prince 39.6%, 30
Walker 38.4%, 25

I'd say they all provide good spacing but the last two might do other things a bit better.

So the team trades Deni, who is significantly better, locked in to the exact same contract, and 2 years younger. The decides to re-up Kispert who certainly won't have any real value on this deal IMO.

At least the Commanders are good this year.

LightTheBeam wrote:So the team trades Deni, who is significantly better, locked in to the exact same contract, and 2 years younger. The decides to re-up Kispert who certainly won't have any real value on this deal IMO.

At least the Commanders are good this year.

I mean, they got a lottery pick for Deni. That's a pretty important part of the analysis here. They weren't going to get a lotto pick for Kispert before this extension and they won't now either.

Laimbeer wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:Is he any better than Lonnie Walker or Taurean Prince?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

In a team concept? Almost certainly. He provides space for your best players. That tends to be more valuable than players who are just okay at a variety of things. Obviously on a playoff team he would have to show he could defend at a playoff level or he gets marginalized, but yeah he's more valuable to NBA teams than those guys imo.

1 on 1 he probably isn't competitive against either. But who cares.

2024 3P%, Age

Kispert 38.3%, 25
Prince 39.6%, 30
Walker 38.4%, 25

I'd say they all provide good spacing but the last two might do other things a bit better.

Remember spacing isn't about percentages nearly as much as how you effect defenses. Can you shoot from deeper? How quick is your release? Can you shoot off the move? Are you just a corner guy.

There is a reason Davis Bertans continued to be a net positive player even in years when his percentages dipped because he was the opposite of PJ Tucker/Finney-Smith types who are good on open corner 3's, but little else. Duncan Robinson another guy whose spacing impact is much higher than his percentage says because of his elite movement and release.

Kispert is clearly a guy teams honor way more than those other guys. And that's what matters. You can shoot a decent percentage on low volulme but if teams let you shoot, you aren't actually very helpful offensively.

gswhoops wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:So the team trades Deni, who is significantly better, locked in to the exact same contract, and 2 years younger. The decides to re-up Kispert who certainly won't have any real value on this deal IMO.

At least the Commanders are good this year.

I mean, they got a lottery pick for Deni. That's a pretty important part of the analysis here. They weren't going to get a lotto pick for Kispert before this extension and they won't now either.

I get that, I actually didn't mind that they traded Deni. My argument pre-trade was that he's not a superstar and teams tend to want to find one before they pay fringe guys. At least Deni had a path to being a 4th or 5th starter on a great team. Kispert is best served as a Sam Hauser off the bench.

I would have sold Kispert for a 2nd, sold Kuzma to anyone who wants him, dealt with Poole as my 6th man, and tried to start the build around Sarr, Bilal, Bub.

Instead we are going to watch a wizards team start the season rolling out
Poole - Bilal - Kuzma - Sarr -JVal with Bagley, Bey, Brogdon, Holmes, Kispert off the bench. 2 guys with potential and a bunch of vets most teams don't want. Just feels bad compared to most successful rebuilds.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:
In a team concept? Almost certainly. He provides space for your best players. That tends to be more valuable than players who are just okay at a variety of things. Obviously on a playoff team he would have to show he could defend at a playoff level or he gets marginalized, but yeah he's more valuable to NBA teams than those guys imo.

1 on 1 he probably isn't competitive against either. But who cares.

2024 3P%, Age

Kispert 38.3%, 25
Prince 39.6%, 30
Walker 38.4%, 25

I'd say they all provide good spacing but the last two might do other things a bit better.

Remember spacing isn't about percentages nearly as much as how you effect defenses. Can you shoot from deeper? How quick is your release? Can you shoot off the move? Are you just a corner guy.

There is a reason Davis Bertans continued to be a net positive player even in years when his percentages dipped because he was the opposite of PJ Tucker/Finney-Smith types who are good on open corner 3's, but little else. Duncan Robinson another guy whose spacing impact is much higher than his percentage says because of his elite movement and release.

Kispert is clearly a guy teams honor way more than those other guys. And that's what matters. You can shoot a decent percentage on low volulme but if teams let you shoot, you aren't actually very helpful offensively.

+1

Draymond Green shot a higher % from three than Klay Thompson last year, but I bet you can guess who defenses respected more from behind the arc.

LightTheBeam wrote:

gswhoops wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:So the team trades Deni, who is significantly better, locked in to the exact same contract, and 2 years younger. The decides to re-up Kispert who certainly won't have any real value on this deal IMO.

At least the Commanders are good this year.

I mean, they got a lottery pick for Deni. That's a pretty important part of the analysis here. They weren't going to get a lotto pick for Kispert before this extension and they won't now either.

I get that, I actually didn't mind that they traded Deni. My argument pre-trade was that he's not a superstar and teams tend to want to find one before they pay fringe guys. At least Deni had a path to being a 4th or 5th starter on a great team. Kispert is best served as a Sam Hauser off the bench.

I would have sold Kispert for a 2nd, sold Kuzma to anyone who wants him, dealt with Poole as my 6th man, and tried to start the build around Sarr, Bilal, Bub.

Instead we are going to watch a wizards team start the season rolling out
Poole - Bilal - Kuzma - Sarr -JVal with Bagley, Bey, Brogdon, Holmes, Kispert off the bench. 2 guys with potential and a bunch of vets most teams don't want. Just feels bad compared to most successful rebuilds.

I mean definitely agree with you on the direction issue. I guess if you think Kispert is going to outplay this deal and become a tradeable asset like Deni did then this is fine, but I don't see how you could think that at this point.

Texas Chuck wrote:Deal is fine. But its another goodish player locked up long term with no star or potential star in place. So I continue to hate how Washington does their business.

But it also saves me from creating a bunch of Kispert for 2nd rounders threads at the deadline I otherwise would have so....

Why? They have already showed how they CAN cash out those guys...

And let's be honest, these players (Kispert) are great guys to have AROUND a young nucleus. Just look at how horrific San Antonio did without spacing around Wemby to "explore the studio space". Kispert is a lights-out shooter who instantly makes playing basketball easier for anyone offensively.

You need to have some semblance of structure around young players in order to develop them. Kispert is structure for MLE and structure is required for developing young players.

The Athletic reporting the fourth year is a team option.

Colbinii wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Deal is fine. But its another goodish player locked up long term with no star or potential star in place. So I continue to hate how Washington does their business.

But it also saves me from creating a bunch of Kispert for 2nd rounders threads at the deadline I otherwise would have so....

Why? They have already showed how they CAN cash out those guys...

And let's be honest, these players (Kispert) are great guys to have AROUND a young nucleus. Just look at how horrific San Antonio did without spacing around Wemby to "explore the studio space". Kispert is a lights-out shooter who instantly makes playing basketball easier for anyone offensively.

I understand your theory and stance, but your ideology falls flat when you need to have some semblance of structure around young players in order to develop them. Kispert is structure for MLE and structure is required for developing young players.

IDK how well they've cashed out exactly....

But part of my initial post talks about the lack of franchise talent. I was cool with Houston adding veterans because they had some pieces who could become something with some pros in house. Who is that exactly in Washington? Sarr? Coulibaly? Meh.

I think they could sell pure space better than they can guys like Kispert, JV, Poole. Kuzma probably worth something, but then they don't seem much interested in moving him. Not for what he can actually return.

This is how they have done business for 20 years. It hasn't worked. I'd like to see them try something else is all.

Kispert is a movement shooter. You can design plays for him to catch and shoot while moving. This means that there is an entire sub-set of plays a team can deploy and utilize him in.

As a Minnesota Timberwolves fan, I can tell you first hand, already, that there is a plethora of plays Donte Divincenzo will be involved in that Conley and Reid weren't capable of, even though they all had similar percentages. Why? Because Donte is hitting 38%+ moving/sliding left-to-right running full speed around a screen and catching and shooting with momentum carrying him. Naz Reid and Mike Conley aren't capable of doing that--they need to be either spotted up or off a simple dribble.

This whole idea that we can devolve shooting and impact of shooters to simple 3P% is a joke. It is no different than looking at assists to determine the better passer.