Butler to GSW with ORL/MIA retool -DEC 15

[Skybox]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

[brackdan70]

Nice trade OP. I didn’t math it out but does it work for the CBA? I know GS is hardcapped.
I think the value is pretty close all around, but I do question it a bit for GSW. They are doing pretty well as is. Is it worth it trading away that much for Butler at this point? I am not sure it is. I love it for Orlando though but it’s breaking up the Wagner Group. I like the return for Miami as well.

[_GH0ST_]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

Butler and Herro are worth more than that. Kuminga and 25 DEN FRP is a low price in this expensive market. Also, Herro has been playing great so far this season.

[brackdan70]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

Butler and Herro are worth more than that. Kuminga and 25 DEN FRP is a low price in this expensive market. Also, Herro has been playing great so far this season.

This probably depends how you value Kuminga. I get what you are saying though and I could see Miami wanting more. Herro has looked good this season. That Den pick is pretty high variance though. It could be in the teens in a really strong draft.
I think some could value KCP and Looney as positive value…not sure about Wiggins.

[xdrta+]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)

The math won't work for GS. It puts them $5M over their hard cap and they still have to add 2 players to get to 14.

[NW]

It's fine from a value perspective, but I don't like it for the Warriors from a team building one. Completely wipes out the wing depth and we become what the Lakers and Bucks are dealing with now - a team where skilled speedy guards and wings run wild.

Speaking of the Bucks, I think there's better potential of a deal with them as the third team instead of the Magic with the Heat getting Dame and some depth, Bucks get Herro and some more athleticism and GS gets Butler without giving up all the wing depth

[BBallFreak]

It's fine from a value perspective, but I don't like it for the Warriors from a team building one. Completely wipes out the wing depth and we become what the Lakers and Bucks are dealing with now - a team where skilled speedy guards and wings run wild.

Speaking of the Bucks, I think there's better potential of a deal with them as the third team instead of the Magic with the Heat getting Dame and some depth, Bucks get Herro and some more athleticism and GS gets Butler without giving up all the wing depth

I wouldn't give up Butler for Dame. Seems like the wrong way to build a team that's trying to win a championship around an old guy.

As to the original trade, I agree with GHOST_

I'm not a fan of this. I see Wiggins as negative, and Looney is...okay—maybe slightly positive value. KCP, to me, is a neutral value. So I see us getting Kuminga, who I like, and needing to spend a fortune to keep him while being stuck with Wiggins. I'm passing...

[NW]

It's fine from a value perspective, but I don't like it for the Warriors from a team building one. Completely wipes out the wing depth and we become what the Lakers and Bucks are dealing with now - a team where skilled speedy guards and wings run wild.

Speaking of the Bucks, I think there's better potential of a deal with them as the third team instead of the Magic with the Heat getting Dame and some depth, Bucks get Herro and some more athleticism and GS gets Butler without giving up all the wing depth

I wouldn't give up Butler for Dame. Seems like the wrong way to build a team that's trying to win a championship around an old guy.

As to the original trade, I agree with GHOST_

I'm not a fan of this. I see Wiggins as negative, and Looney is...okay—maybe slightly positive value. KCP, to me, is a neutral value. So I see us getting Kuminga, who I like, and needing to spend a fortune to keep him while being stuck with Wiggins. I'm passing...

Not a big expert on Miami, but was always under the impression Bam was the man there now? Dame, and I would assume Kuminga goes to Miami in a GS/Mil/Mia hypothetical, seems like something to build on. Would figure Miami would also look to get a pick or swap from GS that would be designated from the post Steph/Dray/Jimmy era. Bucks get Herro, Wiggins (who seems to be getting back to what he was-counting on his offense will always be a gamble, but he’s a reliable defender against top wings, which Bucks sorely need) and maybe some other pieces.

Probably a moot point as the numbers and salaries are near impossible to make work

[Skybox]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

Butler and Herro are worth more than that. Kuminga and 25 DEN FRP is a low price in this expensive market. Also, Herro has been playing great so far this season.

the whole thing's based on the premise that Jimmy decides he's had it with Riley (or vice versa)...I don't think Jimmy's value league-wide is superstar level anymore, especially with that salary situation, being 35 and routinely missing 20-30 games. Miss a few more games and enter Klay-ville. Having said that, Butler is a winner and might power up for one or two more runs with Steph. Herro has been great for a few games, but it doesn't take a lot of digging to find MIA fans wanting to toss him out for much of his career. He's, imo, another guy like Simons...that can be really good at what he's good at and really bad on D...imo, just the kind of guy ORL should be pursuing for their overly defensive-minded roster. KCP & Moe Wagner are both solid players but I'd include a Top 5 protected ORL 25 or 26 pick to MIA, given Herro's recent and, sometimes, previous performance.

[Warriorfan]

Warriors playing well. Rather gamble on Wiggins maintaining level of play and Kuminga improvement

Warriors biggest need a stretch big that can rim protect. Myles Turner.

[giberish]

Given that GS can't fit Wager + Butler the Orlando part just isn't working at all.

IMO the most plausible Butler to GS deal is: Butler/Burks/Love for Wiggins/Kunminga/Melton/Payton/2025 1st (top-4 protected)

Possibly a Kunminga to Philly for a Martin and a 1st as a side deal.

I'm still not sure if this works for GS and leaves them enough space for a 14th man under their 1st apron hard cap. If not Love would be replaced by someone cheaper.

I'm very far from certain that this would be a good deal for GS - as Butler's a marginal style fit and his next contract could be very ugly for the team he signs with. I know Miami expects much more in a Butler trade but if they decide that they don't want to be paying Butler huge money going forward they may have him on the market and I don't see huge value offers coming back.

[xdrta+]

I'm still not sure if this works for GS and leaves them enough space for a 14th man under their 1st apron hard cap. If not Love would be replaced by someone cheaper.

This leaves them with $1.6M room, enough to sign a 0 yr experience player. If they want a vet, they need another $500k or so room.

[_GH0ST_]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

Butler and Herro are worth more than that. Kuminga and 25 DEN FRP is a low price in this expensive market. Also, Herro has been playing great so far this season.

This probably depends how you value Kuminga. I get what you are saying though and I could see Miami wanting more. Herro has looked good this season. That Den pick is pretty high variance though. It could be in the teens in a really strong draft.
I think some could value KCP and Looney as positive value…not sure about Wiggins.

Miami can make this deal without Orlando. I don't think need to send Herro anywhere to get Kuminga.

[_GH0ST_]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

Butler and Herro are worth more than that. Kuminga and 25 DEN FRP is a low price in this expensive market. Also, Herro has been playing great so far this season.

the whole thing's based on the premise that Jimmy decides he's had it with Riley (or vice versa)...I don't think Jimmy's value league-wide is superstar level anymore, especially with that salary situation, being 35 and routinely missing 20-30 games. Miss a few more games and enter Klay-ville. Having said that, Butler is a winner and might power up for one or two more runs with Steph. Herro has been great for a few games, but it doesn't take a lot of digging to find MIA fans wanting to toss him out for much of his career. He's, imo, another guy like Simons...that can be really good at what he's good at and really bad on D...imo, just the kind of guy ORL should be pursuing for their overly defensive-minded roster. KCP & Moe Wagner are both solid players but I'd include a Top 5 protected ORL 25 or 26 pick to MIA, given Herro's recent and, sometimes, previous performance.

Trading Butler and Herro means blow up. Miami won't need KCP or any other veterans but if you add ORL 25 I would do it.

[tiderulz]

GSW sends: Kuminga, Wiggins, Melton, Looney
GSW gets: Jimmy Butler(PO) and Moe Wagner(TO, but a nice PnR fit)
WHY: Contend - Now. Maybe Butler agrees to opt in for one more year...2 shots at the gold. Moe fits nicely as a heady, good hands PnR guy in their motion offense.

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

ORL sends: Moe Wagner, KCP, DEN 25 frp
ORL gets: Tyler Herro
WHY: exactly what they need in the backcourt, shot-maker, playmaker, long, young fierce competitor

Butler and Herro are worth more than that. Kuminga and 25 DEN FRP is a low price in this expensive market. Also, Herro has been playing great so far this season.

This probably depends how you value Kuminga. I get what you are saying though and I could see Miami wanting more. Herro has looked good this season. That Den pick is pretty high variance though. It could be in the teens in a really strong draft.
I think some could value KCP and Looney as positive value…not sure about Wiggins.

problem is, Herro can never stay healthy. always a risk to not be available come playoff time

[Hoops23]

MIA sends: Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro
MIA gets: Jonathan Kuminga(RFA), Andrew Wiggins, KCP, Melton(expiring), Looney(expiring but useful), DEN 25 frp
WHY: MIA gets younger, Kuminga has huge upside, Wiggins is now a solid 2-way guy on a reasonable deal, KCP solid 3&D...Butler seems to be on his way out anyway. Herro's role replaced largely by Rozier and 2 long 2-way incoming wings

So the trade for Miami is Kuminga and Den 25FRP for Butler, Herro and takin Wiggins who have a negative value for Miami???

Thats too much of a value for Kuminga and a mid to late FRP.

The Heat is not biting on the rumored trade of Butler for Kumingga, Wiggins and an expiring contract as filler, what more if Herro is included!

[DonaldSanders]

This is a trade I don't think makes sense for MIA or GSW. I think Miami wants to continue with Jimmy, he'll test FA but ultimately return. And it's probably a little light on compensation for MIA.

For the Warriors, depth & speed is the calling card this year. Trading for Jimmy means playing slower and depth goes down, so I don't think it makes sense. I see the Warriors only making a smaller move at the trade deadline -- either for a big or another ball handler, something more in the 10M range, 2 guys for 1.