Challenge: What do the MAGIC need to become contenders?

[MessiahUjiri]

The Magic are in the second tier of East teams, who are playoff participants but not contenders.

They have some budding stars: Paulo, Franz, Suggs, Black.

They have 2 1sts in the coming draft (ORL, DEN), and a bunch of salary that can be matched in trades.


The way I see it, they don’t need to make a drastic move, but they *should* make a move to upgrade the C and PG spots (Suggs isn’t the best floor general on O).


Their rotating committee of Cs (WCJ, Goga, Mo Wagner) provide a regular season mirage that will be outclassed in the playoffs when it matters.

How should they improve?

[MessiahUjiri]

I’m gonna suggest 2 targets: Schroder (PG), and Poeltl (C).

- These guys are effective vets, without breaking the bank
- They are likely to be shopped by their teams
- They complement the current roster really well. Not just on the court, but also off the court, as leaders.


Schroder has great team Germany chemistry with the Wagner bros. Poeltl also speaks German.

[Texas Chuck]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

[Godaddycurse]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Knicks were a lot better after OG trade and ditto to pacers and siakam

[Texas Chuck]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Knicks were a lot better after OG trade and ditto to pacers and siakam

Were the Raptors a lot better after getting say Poeltl or Dennis? But they are obviously the final piece to Orlando because....

[psman2]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Knicks were a lot better after OG trade and ditto to pacers and siakam

The Indiana Pacers have a 28-24 record with Pascal Siakam, his offensive seems fine but hasn't help the D. That seems to be the trend with him the last several seasons.

OG played 23 games with the Knicks, while missing 27 games. Seems par for the course there.

[MessiahUjiri]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Schroder doesn’t play for the Raptors. And I provided rationale for why him and Poeltl would be good targets, as complements to the budding stars.


Sorry if that triggered your insecurities and you can’t handle an open discussion.

[Godaddycurse]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Knicks were a lot better after OG trade and ditto to pacers and siakam

Were the Raptors a lot better after getting say Poeltl or Dennis? But they are obviously the final piece to Orlando because....

Raptors weren't near contending/weren't even a playoff team prior to getting Poeltl or Dennis though. OP is saying Orlando is much closer to contention than raptors was.

Though i also disagree that schroder or poeltl will bridge the gap between them and the top teams

[Godaddycurse]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Knicks were a lot better after OG trade and ditto to pacers and siakam

The Indiana Pacers have a 28-24 record with Pascal Siakam, his offensive seems fine but hasn't help the D. That seems to be the trend with him the last several seasons.

OG played 23 games with the Knicks, while missing 27 games. Seems par for the course there.

Imo pacers record would be much worse w/o siakam given hali's struggle with health and effectiveness in the 2nd half. He helped them secure a playoff spot and ECF appearance.

Knicks also went on a crazy run w/ OG. health is forever an asterisk with him though

[Texas Chuck]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Schroder doesn’t play for the Raptors. And I provided rationale for why him and Poeltl would be good targets, as complements to the budding stars.


Sorry if that triggered your insecurities and you can’t handle an open discussion.

LOL. I just like transparency. This isn't a thread about fixing Orlando. It's about getting value for a Raptor. Do you think we haven't seen your other threads?

I have zero issue with a thread that just says what should Orlando pay for Poeltl. But lets just be upfront about it. And Dennis was a Raptor, I didn't forget.

But carry on. We've discussed Poeltl to the Magic a bunch and I still personally don't like the idea, but maybe others will.

[babyjax13]

Poeltl isn't a major upgrade over what they have and negatively affects the unique spacing they have at center. I'm not sure they need anything but time, but getting a combo-guard who is better than Anthony could be nice. There are.a bunch of good ones, and they should just pick the one that comes for the least outlay & still makes sense for their cap sheet out of guys like CJ McCollum, Collin Sexton, Anfernee Simons, Tyler Herro, Coby White, Payton Prichard, Jordan Poole, etc.

[tcheco]

What is Magics weakness right now?
Paolo is out and Franz is doing a ok/good job being the main scorer, Suggs is not a floor general but works well enough with Franz and Paolo healthy.
You probably need a Myles Turner type of center that can space the floor for Paolo and can hold his own on defense as well. I could see a Tyus jones type of player helping on the rotation as well.

Turner is Indianas only center right now but will be an UFA next year, hard to gauge value and/or imagine a trade, so I'd look at Naz Reid, someone the Wolves might not be able to keep next year probably as he will opt out:

Magic gets:
Naz Reid
NAW

Wolves get:
Jalen Smith
Ayo
Caleb Houston

Bulls get:
Goga
Jett Howard
1st rounder

Magic
Suggs/Black/Cole
KCP/NAW
Franz/Tristan
Paolo/Tristan/Isaac
Reid/Mo/WCJ

Magic get a new Center that helps with spacing, add NAW to help with depth. PF/C rotation get's crowded but considering the health of Isaac and WCJ(and Paolo coming back from injury)

Wolves:
Conley/Ayo
Ant/DD/Ayo
McD/DD/Caleb
Randle/Smith/Ingles
Gobert/Randle/Smith

Wolves get cost controlled depth for Reid. Jalen Smith was good and the end of the year for the Pacers and now have been good for the bulls too(considering his role). 8 points and 5 rebounds in 14 minutes with good splits. Ayo helps too with depth although he needs to revert back to his 3pt shooting from last year. Caleb is just Caleb

Bulls take on Goga who is a decent backup and could be rerouted, Jett who is a project and a pick for Ayo and Jalen

[MessiahUjiri]

It's amazing how Raptor players are always just what another team needs to be a contender.

Schroder doesn’t play for the Raptors. And I provided rationale for why him and Poeltl would be good targets, as complements to the budding stars.


Sorry if that triggered your insecurities and you can’t handle an open discussion.

LOL. I just like transparency. This isn't a thread about fixing Orlando. It's about getting value for a Raptor. Do you think we haven't seen your other threads?

I have zero issue with a thread that just says what should Orlando pay for Poeltl. But lets just be upfront about it. And Dennis was a Raptor, I didn't forget.

But carry on. We've discussed Poeltl to the Magic a bunch and I still personally don't like the idea, but maybe others will.

Now you’re gonna complain about FORMER raptor players being mentioned in trade ideas? That’s how insecure you are, about Raps fans?

And by the way, this is actually purely about the Magic. That’s why I even kept the idea of Poeltl away from the main post. And I never even brought up what value the Magic should pay, only reasons why Schroder/Poeltl would work well as trade targets.

Maybe if you weren’t so sensitive you would see that, and have a more intelligent response.

[drosestruts]

The Magic are a fantastic defensive team.

Their biggest area of need is an efficient volume scorer.

The TS% for their top guys range from not ideal to bad:

Banchero - 59%
Franz - 56%
Suggs - 54%

Players I'd target if I were the Magic:

Tyler Herro - having a great start to the season. Fits their age timeline

Khris Middleton - potential buy-low candidate due to his injuries

Jordan Poole - averaging 22 points on 61% TS% this season. Environment is everything - he was a key piece on a Warriors championship team. Orlando seems like a team with a good locker room/environment.

Colin Sexton - 16 points on 58% TS% this year. Was above 60% the past two seasons. Also fits from an age perspective


Obviously there's better players out there - but these are some players I think Orlando could acquire that would help without depleting them of assets. Heck for someone like Poole maybe you even get an asset back of some kind.

[JRoy]

A top tier guard would do a lot for that team.

[Texas Chuck]

Now you’re gonna complain about FORMER raptor players being mentioned in trade ideas? That’s how insecure you are, about Raps fans?



Maybe if you weren’t so sensitive you would see that, and have a more intelligent response.

Not complaining about Raptors fans at all. Pointing out a pattern from a specfic poster (you) who happens to be a Raptors fan. Just like pipfan used to make a bunch of threads about other teams tearing down their team and literally every thread involved a Bulls trade.

Just be upfront about your interest. Your interest is in your team. Which makes you like about 85% of posters here. Nothing wrong with that at all mate. Just be straight with us. When every thread you have involves a Raptor, we notice.

But no being less sensitive(not sure the context here but okay...) won't make me have more intelligent responses. I'll still be just as dumb(or smart) as I am now.

Sorry for the derail. Let's discuss current and former Raptors to the Magic.

Or better, discuss what the Magic actually need to take a step into contention--which would be a bonified superstar.

[MessiahUjiri]

Now you’re gonna complain about FORMER raptor players being mentioned in trade ideas? That’s how insecure you are, about Raps fans?



Maybe if you weren’t so sensitive you would see that, and have a more intelligent response.

Not complaining about Raptors fans at all. Pointing out a pattern from a specfic poster (you) who happens to be a Raptors fan. Just like pipfan used to make a bunch of threads about other teams tearing down their team and literally every thread involved a Bulls trade.

Just be upfront about your interest. Your interest is in your team. Which makes you like about 85% of posters here. Nothing wrong with that at all mate. Just be straight with us. When every thread you have involves a Raptor, we notice.

If you really noticed, look at the board, 3 posts below this thread.

“What do the WARRIORS need to become contenders”
Started by me. Same as this thread, no Raps mentioned.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2415715


Rather than making snarky remarks about “transparency” (which implies dishonesty), you should reflect on the fact that some NBA fans are genuinely curious about other teams too, even if they have a home team.

[giberish]

At full health they aren't that far off. Like others I see a 3rd guard upgrade as an option, but most/all guys good enough to matter also have salaries that will be tough to deal with going forward. So perhaps just hoping for more offensive improvements form Suggs an Black and perhaps adding a budget-friendly wing gunner (or Howard develops into this).

[Texas Chuck]

Rather than making snarky remarks about “transparency” (which implies dishonesty), you should reflect on the fact that some NBA fans are genuinely curious about other teams too, even if they have a home team.

Noted.

My apologies.

Back on topic, I think the Magic need a player that makes Banchero their 2nd best player. With very very rare exceptions championships are won by teams with legit MVP candidates. The exceptions are extremely deep veteran teams (last Spurs title and 3 from the Pistons--the Wallace/Wallace/Billups team got one and the Bad Boys got 2). These are literally the only examples over the last 40 years.

Now that player is almost certainly not available. And the Magic core is still really young. So contention probably isn't in the cards. I'd look for a cheap(in assets) to acquire perimeter shot creator and a mobile defensive center. But realistically they need Banchero or Wagner to take a major leap or wait for a legit superstar to become available and pounce.

Getting That Guy TM sadly is the answer. You know this with Kawhi. Years of being a really really good team that couldn't get past Lebron(like the whole conference...). Then they got a top 5 guy and boom.

[eminence]

I think you're looking for a real superstar if you want to make the jump now. Giannis the most talked about currently due to the Bucks struggles. Probably a Banchero based package to even potentially get Milwaukee interested (and likely still lose the bid to OKC).

Check to see if Connelly is still giving away All-NBA caliber bigs (Gobert).