RealGM

Hornets out: Josh Green, Vasa Micic, DaQuan Jefferies, Cody Martin, 2025 2nd (New Orleans), 2026 2nd (GS), 2027 2nd (Portland or NO, more favorable)

Blazers out: Ayton

Why for the Hornets: it is a talent upgrade. at a position of need due to injury. Hornets embrace trying to win and don't worry about the draft. Yes, I know the Hornets owe a protected draft pick to the spurs. At some point they have to send a message to the players that this org is trying to actually win.

Why for Blazers: They turn Ayton into smaller contracts and get some 2nd round picks to move any of them they like to a new destination.

The difficulty is portland is at 15 on the roster, and don't really have 3 guys they'd want to waive to make this deal. I think it'd need to be worked into a bigger frame of other guys going out or these guys immediately rerouted.

Hmmm.... I'd still pass for the Hornets, but still is one of the few Ayton scenarios that make some sense. I still can't get my head around why they took Salaun over Clingan.

PDX simply doesnt have 3 guys they are willing to cut.

I agree CHA is one of the few teams that may be interested in Ayton - but the contracts are basically impossible to match.

I also dislike Josh having a deal that goes a year longer than Ayton.

On December 15th the main pieces of a deal could be:

Ayton to Charlotte
Bridges to Milwaukee
Middleton to Portland

wemby wrote:Hmmm.... I'd still pass for the Hornets, but still is one of the few Ayton scenarios that make some sense. I still can't get my head around why they took Salaun over Clingan.

neither can the rest of us but what's done is done. I'd take Ayton for minimal value.

The pieces can change a bit, as I doubt Portland cares about any of them and the main feedback is that Portland doesn't want to cut a thousand players. Are they stuck on holding onto Walker+Rupert?

Charlotte needs to send out just a shade over $26.5M to match salaries. Jeffries isn't necessary and anyway can't be traded till January since that S&T happened so late in the offseason. I don't think either party would want to wait that long.

I'd go Green, Micic, Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Rupert, and if they clear waivers, both Martin or Micic aren't guaranteed any money past this year, you can comfortably cut one if you really like Walker or Rupert.

Charlotte depth chart is very very light on wings, but really don't think we're missing a lot. Trade Nick Richards for a mediocre minutes-eater (someone like Highsmith? Kenrich Williams?) and we have a depth chart of:
Ball/Mann
Seth/NSJ
Miller/Highsmith/Jeffries*
Bridges*/Grant Williams/Salaun
Ayton/Mark*/Diabate/Gibson
( * currently injured without a return date)

This works much more cleanly if the Blazers like Grant Williams more than Green and are willing to give back some 2nds

POR unlikely to cut Rupert. He’s looked pretty good in small doses this season.

Mavs were in the conference Finals just last year and I could find 3 guys to cut so fast. I'm always a bit surprised I'm the only poster here who looks at their roster and find roster spaces with ease. I get sometimes you are the Grizzlies of a few years ago or the current Thunder where it is actually difficult. But...Reath, Blanton, and one of Murray, Walker, Rupert feels pretty easy. Or if you like Reath or Blanton, two of that 2nd group.

I think the Green contract is the most compelling reason to say no. If you want as little unwanted salary on the books moving forward. But I think cutting some guys is easy. And if they have value, they are cheap enough to trade away and get a 2nd back.

Texas Chuck wrote:Mavs were in the conference Finals just last year and I could find 3 guys to cut so fast. I'm always a bit surprised I'm the only poster here who looks at their roster and find roster spaces with ease. I get sometimes you are the Grizzlies of a few years ago or the current Thunder where it is actually difficult. But...Reath, Blanton, and one of Murray, Walker, Rupert feels pretty easy. Or if you like Reath or Blanton, two of that 2nd group.

I think the Green contract is the most compelling reason to say no. If you want as little unwanted salary on the books moving forward. But I think cutting some guys is easy. And if they have value, they are cheap enough to trade away and get a 2nd back.

They definitely would not cut Rupert and Murray. Banton, Walker and Reath are the easiest since they're expiring, but I do believe the team values them. They need to cut 3 for this deal, so it's close, but ultimately I don't think they do it. Banton is actually playing well and I could see the team re-signing him.

But regardless, this is equivalent to trading those cuts for a few seconds, since I don't think Ayton has any value. They may or may not do this.

EDIT: Cody Martin is playing pretty decent, and fits what the type of player the FO likes. If they could just cut Walker and Reath in the revised deal, I think I'd do it.

HornetJail wrote:

wemby wrote:Hmmm.... I'd still pass for the Hornets, but still is one of the few Ayton scenarios that make some sense. I still can't get my head around why they took Salaun over Clingan.

neither can the rest of us but what's done is done. I'd take Ayton for minimal value.

The pieces can change a bit, as I doubt Portland cares about any of them and the main feedback is that Portland doesn't want to cut a thousand players. Are they stuck on holding onto Walker+Rupert?

Charlotte needs to send out just a shade over $26.5M to match salaries. Jeffries isn't necessary and anyway can't be traded till January since that S&T happened so late in the offseason. I don't think either party would want to wait that long.

I'd go Green, Micic, Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Rupert, and if they clear waivers, both Martin or Micic aren't guaranteed any money past this year, you can comfortably cut one if you really like Walker or Rupert.

Charlotte depth chart is very very light on wings, but really don't think we're missing a lot. Trade Nick Richards for a mediocre minutes-eater (someone like Highsmith? Kenrich Williams?) and we have a depth chart of:
Ball/Mann
Seth/NSJ
Miller/Highsmith/Jeffries*
Bridges*/Grant Williams/Salaun
Ayton/Mark*/Diabate/Gibson
( * currently injured without a return date)

This works much more cleanly if the Blazers like Grant Williams more than Green and are willing to give back some 2nds

This works for me.

Green + Micic + Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Reath. I think they keep Martin around after this year. They take on an extra year for Josh Green, but his salary is small enough that I think they wouldn't mind.

Texas Chuck wrote:Mavs were in the conference Finals just last year and I could find 3 guys to cut so fast. I'm always a bit surprised I'm the only poster here who looks at their roster and find roster spaces with ease. I get sometimes you are the Grizzlies of a few years ago or the current Thunder where it is actually difficult. But...Reath, Blanton, and one of Murray, Walker, Rupert feels pretty easy. Or if you like Reath or Blanton, two of that 2nd group.

I think the Green contract is the most compelling reason to say no. If you want as little unwanted salary on the books moving forward. But I think cutting some guys is easy. And if they have value, they are cheap enough to trade away and get a 2nd back.

A team as bad as POR has plenty of guys to cut in a deal that is worth the cuts.

Walker and Blanton can go, Murray too, but POR would probably prefer to keep Rupert and Reath.

PDX isn’t cutting Rayan.

I would be OK to cut Walker.

Make it Ayton for Green + Martin + Micic + SRPs with Martin going to team X for a big (to replace the loss of Reath / Walker). Maybe DET for Reed? Or DAL for Maxi?

I would then try to simply salary dump Simons on LAL for DLo and some SRP. Maybe a swap.

PDX cuts Walker.

PDX OUT - Ayton + Reath
PDX IN - Green + Reed + Micic + 2026 SRP (Higher of IND / CHA) + 2027 SRP (Higher of PDX / NO) + 2031 NYK SRP

CHA OUT - Green + Martin + Micic + 2026 SRP (Higher of IND / CHA) + 2027 SRP (Higher of PDX / NO) + 2031 NYK SRP
CHA IN - Ayton

DET OUT - Reed
DET IN - Martin + Reath

Then Simons for Russell + 2025 SRP (Higher LAC / LAL) + 2028 Pick Swap (Lotto Protected) - buy out DLo.

G - Scoot Henderson / Dalano Banton / Vasilic Micic
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Josh Green / Dalano Banton
F - Jerami Grant / Deni Avdija /Rayan Rupert
F - Toumari Camara / Deni Avdija / Kris Murray
C - Donovan Clingan / Robert Williams III / Paul Reed

No clue what to do w/ Thybulle.

GoBobs wrote:Hornets out: Josh Green, Vasa Micic, DaQuan Jefferies, Cody Martin, 2025 2nd (New Orleans), 2026 2nd (GS), 2027 2nd (Portland or NO, more favorable)

Blazers out: Ayton

Why for the Hornets: it is a talent upgrade. at a position of need due to injury. Hornets embrace trying to win and don't worry about the draft. Yes, I know the Hornets owe a protected draft pick to the spurs. At some point they have to send a message to the players that this org is trying to actually win.

Why for Blazers: They turn Ayton into smaller contracts and get some 2nd round picks to move any of them they like to a new destination.

No go for Blazers. We should just let him walk if it’s merely 2nds lol. Someone will appreciate a walking double double more than that

Pattycakes wrote:

GoBobs wrote:Hornets out: Josh Green, Vasa Micic, DaQuan Jefferies, Cody Martin, 2025 2nd (New Orleans), 2026 2nd (GS), 2027 2nd (Portland or NO, more favorable)

Blazers out: Ayton

Why for the Hornets: it is a talent upgrade. at a position of need due to injury. Hornets embrace trying to win and don't worry about the draft. Yes, I know the Hornets owe a protected draft pick to the spurs. At some point they have to send a message to the players that this org is trying to actually win.

Why for Blazers: They turn Ayton into smaller contracts and get some 2nd round picks to move any of them they like to a new destination.

No go for Blazers. We should just let him walk if it’s merely 2nds lol. Someone will appreciate a walking double double more than that

Nick Richards is a walking double double, at an eighth of the price and 10% higher TS. And he’s worth basically nothing. This is a major gamble play on some invisible hope of untapped potential that he’s had every chance to show, except you have to pay him like he’s already doing it

its 2024. NBA teams (and most fans) understand that a double/double holds zero intrinsic value. Even on bad teams someone scores and someone rebounds.

IF you don't defend and don't space the floor nor are a lob threats, you aren't going to hold much value at all, and certainly none on a max contract. This player just isn't valuable.

But hey in 1994 he'd look like an all-star so there is that.

Malapropism wrote:

HornetJail wrote:

wemby wrote:Hmmm.... I'd still pass for the Hornets, but still is one of the few Ayton scenarios that make some sense. I still can't get my head around why they took Salaun over Clingan.

neither can the rest of us but what's done is done. I'd take Ayton for minimal value.

The pieces can change a bit, as I doubt Portland cares about any of them and the main feedback is that Portland doesn't want to cut a thousand players. Are they stuck on holding onto Walker+Rupert?

Charlotte needs to send out just a shade over $26.5M to match salaries. Jeffries isn't necessary and anyway can't be traded till January since that S&T happened so late in the offseason. I don't think either party would want to wait that long.

I'd go Green, Micic, Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Rupert, and if they clear waivers, both Martin or Micic aren't guaranteed any money past this year, you can comfortably cut one if you really like Walker or Rupert.

Charlotte depth chart is very very light on wings, but really don't think we're missing a lot. Trade Nick Richards for a mediocre minutes-eater (someone like Highsmith? Kenrich Williams?) and we have a depth chart of:
Ball/Mann
Seth/NSJ
Miller/Highsmith/Jeffries*
Bridges*/Grant Williams/Salaun
Ayton/Mark*/Diabate/Gibson
( * currently injured without a return date)

This works much more cleanly if the Blazers like Grant Williams more than Green and are willing to give back some 2nds

This works for me.

Green + Micic + Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Reath. I think they keep Martin around after this year. They take on an extra year for Josh Green, but his salary is small enough that I think they wouldn't mind.

I'd just take Reath for ourselves if Portland's alright with cutting him. Didn't think they would

HornetJail wrote:

Malapropism wrote:

HornetJail wrote:neither can the rest of us but what's done is done. I'd take Ayton for minimal value.

The pieces can change a bit, as I doubt Portland cares about any of them and the main feedback is that Portland doesn't want to cut a thousand players. Are they stuck on holding onto Walker+Rupert?

Charlotte needs to send out just a shade over $26.5M to match salaries. Jeffries isn't necessary and anyway can't be traded till January since that S&T happened so late in the offseason. I don't think either party would want to wait that long.

I'd go Green, Micic, Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Rupert, and if they clear waivers, both Martin or Micic aren't guaranteed any money past this year, you can comfortably cut one if you really like Walker or Rupert.

Charlotte depth chart is very very light on wings, but really don't think we're missing a lot. Trade Nick Richards for a mediocre minutes-eater (someone like Highsmith? Kenrich Williams?) and we have a depth chart of:
Ball/Mann
Seth/NSJ
Miller/Highsmith/Jeffries*
Bridges*/Grant Williams/Salaun
Ayton/Mark*/Diabate/Gibson
( * currently injured without a return date)

This works much more cleanly if the Blazers like Grant Williams more than Green and are willing to give back some 2nds

This works for me.

Green + Micic + Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Reath. I think they keep Martin around after this year. They take on an extra year for Josh Green, but his salary is small enough that I think they wouldn't mind.

I'd just take Reath for ourselves if Portland's alright with cutting him. Didn't think they would

Trade wouldn't work at that point. Even if you swapped Reath with Seth Curry, Portland would still need to cut 2 players.

Malapropism wrote:

HornetJail wrote:

Malapropism wrote:
This works for me.

Green + Micic + Martin, 2nds for Ayton. Portland cuts Walker and Reath. I think they keep Martin around after this year. They take on an extra year for Josh Green, but his salary is small enough that I think they wouldn't mind.

I'd just take Reath for ourselves if Portland's alright with cutting him. Didn't think they would

Trade wouldn't work at that point. Even if you swapped Reath with Seth Curry, Portland would still need to cut 2 players.

Reath is a min salary, and I'm pretty sure we could just take him at any time, right? or does this CBA not allow that anymore?

It’s the extra year of Green that really kills this for me. It is bad enough to cut guys we may not want to cut (Banton has played well, Rayan has promise, Reath suddenly will be needed a bit if Ayton is shipped out), but to make those cuts to take on Green’s extra year isn’t something I’m in favor of. Yes, those guys are cuttable for the right trade, I just don’t think this is it.

Hornets will wait on Mark Williams and if it costs wins, they can live with keeping their 2025 1st owed the Spurs.

Moussa Diabaté is playing on a 2-way contract looking like a rebounding machine - 10 offensive rebounds today. He's potentially a viable backup to Mark Williams longterm.

His emergence makes Nick Richards expendable. I think a better move is trading for a stretch big who better complements 2 centers resigned to the paint for the most part.