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Many poster seem to agree that Golden State is a quality landing spot for Vucevic, mostly for some combination of expiring and 2nds.

Making trades bigger is a great way to make them unrealistic, and yet I persist.

The Bulls FO seems to value young current NBA players (Giddey, Jaylen Smith as recent examples), more than future NBA players (picks). During trade rumors last deadline it was rumored the Bulls wanted Kuminga in a potential Caruso trade. I wouldn't be surprised if they try again for Kuminga after he and the Warriors seemed far apart on an extension.

But can the Bulls put together a compelling enough offer? Here's my attempt.


Chicago in: Jonathan Kuminga, De'Anthony Melton, Gary Payton 3, and Kevon Looney

Golden State in: Nikola Vucevic, Coby White, Torrey Craig, and Talen Horton-Tucker


Bulls:

Giddey/Ball/Carter/Melton
LaVine/Ayo/Terry
Williams/Phillips/Payton/Duarte
Kuminga/Buzelis
Smith/Looney

Bulls get a player they've been after for close to a year in Kuminga. He's another young player - which alings with their recent moves of getting younger. Both he and Giddey need to get paid this offseason but moving Vuc for expirins helps makes that possible. It's also key that the Bulls get Looney back in the deal as they'll need the center depth.

Bulls sink or swim with a very young team.


Warriors:

Curry/Podz/Moody
White/Hield/THT
Wiggins/Craig/Waters
Green/Anderson/Santos
Vucevic/TJD

Warriors upgrade their starting 2 and 5 spots while adding quality depth in 3&d veteran Torrey Craig and microwave scorer THT. Warriors want to win now. Are the pieces they got back enough to justify giving up their highest potential young piece in Kuminga?

White and Vuc are also under contract next year, so it's not like this only creates a 1-year window for the Warriors. They'll have these same cost controlled pieces in place for next year as well.

Curry-Coby-Hield can be the splash triplets

Thoughts?

Life goes on after Steph.

I believe the Warriors need to carve out cap space in order to match any offers for Kuminga in restricted free agency without suffering a huge tax bill.

I think the player the Warriors will focus on moving is the one Kuminga would replace in the starting lineup. That's Wiggins.

If the Warriors can find a taker for Wiggins for expirings, they will prioritize that transaction and hold Kuminga.

I think they're listening hard on Wiggins.

I don't think they're listening at all on Kuminga.

Just my take on the Warriors. Maybe they can chime in here.

I think you have the wrong target.

I think White > Kuminga (not a massive, massive margin), so on the balance it seems appealing for Golden State, IMO. Especially because White can replace the role that Poole had, but be a lot better at it.

Whole point of adding a stretch 5 like Vuc is to pair with Kuminga. Adds another shooter to the lineup and opens the paint more for JK. Trading JK for Vuc defeats the purpose.

Also don’t think the Warriors future is all about JK. We’ll see where things stand at the end of the season and what kind of deal he’ll warrant. As of now, I think he’s going to regret not taking the offer made in the offseason.

I think Kuminga value is pretty trash right now. He was demanding 5/158 this summer and thought 5/150 was too low to consider....

No idea where Golden State was at with final offer, but the way he has played in year 4 he is instantly a terrible contract once he signs that deal. Going to make the Patrick Williams contract look like a bargain and that thing is ugly by itself.

Bulls trade Vuc & filler for Wiggins plus draft capital, Warriors/Bulls flip Vuc to a third team for expirings to GS

Micic + Martin + Richards works for the Hornets, and for GS.

Kuminga moves into the starting lineup in audition for his next contact with the Warriors. Martin replaces Kuminga on the bench. Warriors get a vet floor general in Micic who has played huge games. They also add Richards as a young cost-controlled center they can use to save money on a new contract owed Looney. Warriors could let Looney walk.

MasterIchiro wrote:Bulls trade Vuc & filler for Wiggins plus draft capital, Warriors/Bulls flip Vuc to a third team for expirings to GS

Micic + Martin + Richards works for the Hornets, and for GS.

Kuminga moves into the starting lineup in audition for his next contact with the Warriors. Martin replaces Kuminga on the bench. Warriors get a vet floor general in Micic who has played huge games. They also add Richards as a young cost-controlled center they can use to save money on a new contract owed Looney. Warriors could let Looney walk.

Warriors aren’t trying to move Wiggins to open a spot at the 3 for Kuminga. Kerr doesn’t see Kuminga as a 3. Kuminga sees Kuminga as a 3. He probably is on defense and isn’t on offense.

None of those Hornets guys do anything for what GS needs imo

NW wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:Bulls trade Vuc & filler for Wiggins plus draft capital, Warriors/Bulls flgreatest.

to a third team for expirings to GS

Micic + Martin + Richards works for the Hornets, and for GS.

Kuminga moves into the starting lineup in audition for his next contact with the Warriors. Martin replaces Kuminga on the bench. Warriors get a vet floor general in Micic who has played huge games. They also add Richards as a young cost-controlled center they can use to save money on a new contract owed Looney. Warriors could let Looney walk.

Warriors aren’t trying to move Wiggins to open a spot at the 3 for Kuminga. Kerr doesn’t see Kuminga as a 3. Kuminga sees Kuminga as a 3. He probably is on defense and isn’t on offense.

None of those Hornets guys do anything for what GS needs imo

You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

I’d rather have Coby than Kuminga…at least as a Knicks fan. I know we have better depth at guard, but I just like Coby so much more.

Not a bad idea-I'm open to trading White (I like him but we need studs)
But, Buzelis and PWill can hold down the forward spots in the future, and Phillips might be our 3rd forward.

Vuc for Looney/Melton/a 2nd or two is fine

MasterIchiro wrote:

NW wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:Bulls trade Vuc & filler for Wiggins plus draft capital, Warriors/Bulls flgreatest.

to a third team for expirings to GS

Micic + Martin + Richards works for the Hornets, and for GS.

Kuminga moves into the starting lineup in audition for his next contact with the Warriors. Martin replaces Kuminga on the bench. Warriors get a vet floor general in Micic who has played huge games. They also add Richards as a young cost-controlled center they can use to save money on a new contract owed Looney. Warriors could let Looney walk.

Warriors aren’t trying to move Wiggins to open a spot at the 3 for Kuminga. Kerr doesn’t see Kuminga as a 3. Kuminga sees Kuminga as a 3. He probably is on defense and isn’t on offense.

None of those Hornets guys do anything for what GS needs imo

You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

They’re willing to retain Kuminga for the right price, but they aren’t going to blow up the roster or make big moves like dealing Wiggins, to accommodate him when he hasn’t shown being worth that yet. It’s coin flip whether he’s locked into a new deal or traded at the deadline at this point. Steph, Kerr and Dray got a couple years left. After that, it’s clear books and rebuild. Til then, priority is to make moves to help Steph compete for another title. Setting up for the future with Kuminga is low on the priority list imo

drosestruts wrote:Many poster seem to agree that Golden State is a quality landing spot for Vucevic, mostly for some combination of expiring and 2nds.

Making trades bigger is a great way to make them unrealistic, and yet I persist.

The Bulls FO seems to value young current NBA players (Giddey, Jaylen Smith as recent examples), more than future NBA players (picks). During trade rumors last deadline it was rumored the Bulls wanted Kuminga in a potential Caruso trade. I wouldn't be surprised if they try again for Kuminga after he and the Warriors seemed far apart on an extension.

But can the Bulls put together a compelling enough offer? Here's my attempt.


Chicago in: Jonathan Kuminga, De'Anthony Melton, Gary Payton 3, and Kevon Looney

Golden State in: Nikola Vucevic, Coby White, Torrey Craig, and Talen Horton-Tucker


Bulls:

Giddey/Ball/Carter/Melton
LaVine/Ayo/Terry
Williams/Phillips/Payton/Duarte
Kuminga/Buzelis
Smith/Looney

Bulls get a player they've been after for close to a year in Kuminga. He's another young player - which alings with their recent moves of getting younger. Both he and Giddey need to get paid this offseason but moving Vuc for expirins helps makes that possible. It's also key that the Bulls get Looney back in the deal as they'll need the center depth.

Bulls sink or swim with a very young team.


Warriors:

Curry/Podz/Moody
White/Hield/THT
Wiggins/Craig/Waters
Green/Anderson/Santos
Vucevic/TJD

Warriors upgrade their starting 2 and 5 spots while adding quality depth in 3&d veteran Torrey Craig and microwave scorer THT. Warriors want to win now. Are the pieces they got back enough to justify giving up their highest potential young piece in Kuminga?

White and Vuc are also under contract next year, so it's not like this only creates a 1-year window for the Warriors. They'll have these same cost controlled pieces in place for next year as well.

Curry-Coby-Hield can be the splash triplets

Thoughts?

I'd be very into this from a GS standpoint, but our FO has consistently refused to move our young guys for anything less than a superstar (until their value completely tanks and they end up trading them for a guy they let walk 9 months ago).

You can keep THT too, I think we'd rather just have the cap space to sign a better-fitting vet min guy.

Vuc/TJD
Draymond/SloMo/Gui
Wiggins/Moody/Craig
White/Hield/Waters
Curry/Podz

NW wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:

NW wrote:
Warriors aren’t trying to move Wiggins to open a spot at the 3 for Kuminga. Kerr doesn’t see Kuminga as a 3. Kuminga sees Kuminga as a 3. He probably is on defense and isn’t on offense.

None of those Hornets guys do anything for what GS needs imo

You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

They’re willing to retain Kuminga for the right price, but they aren’t going to blow up the roster or make big moves like dealing Wiggins, to accommodate him when he hasn’t shown being worth that yet. It’s coin flip whether he’s locked into a new deal or traded at the deadline at this point. Steph, Kerr and Dray got a couple years left. After that, it’s clear books and rebuild. Til then, priority is to make moves to help Steph compete for another title. Setting up for the future with Kuminga is low on the priority list imo

If they can't bundle Kuminga for an upgrade, why would they just let him walk?

He is restricted. The market will limit his settlement figure.

Moving Wiggins is a big move?

Man, I suspect the Warriors would have to attach draft capital. Getting out of his deal for expirings alone is about as clean as it gets.

I could be wrong.

MasterIchiro wrote:

NW wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:
You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

They’re willing to retain Kuminga for the right price, but they aren’t going to blow up the roster or make big moves like dealing Wiggins, to accommodate him when he hasn’t shown being worth that yet. It’s coin flip whether he’s locked into a new deal or traded at the deadline at this point. Steph, Kerr and Dray got a couple years left. After that, it’s clear books and rebuild. Til then, priority is to make moves to help Steph compete for another title. Setting up for the future with Kuminga is low on the priority list imo

If they can't bundle Kuminga for an upgrade, why would they just let him walk?

He is restricted. The market will limit his settlement figure.

Moving Wiggins is a big move?

Man, I suspect the Warriors would have to attach draft capital. Getting out of his deal for expirings alone is about as clean as it gets.

I could be wrong.

I really, really doubt the Warriors would have to attach draft capital to turn Wiggins into expirings. He's looking back to his 2022 form this year - 17/4 shooting 40% from 3 with plus perimeter defense.

MasterIchiro wrote:

NW wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:
You would know better than I do as a fan. But you do seem to not really be as big a fan of Kuminga as maybe the Warriors. They need to stay young given the hour glass pouring sand over Curry.

Moody, Pod, Kuminga.

Warriors will work to retain these guys, and slash some players like Wiggins who don't fit the next window post-Steph.

He was asking for 150 million. Warriors not agreeing to that says more about Kuminga's agency than anything about the Warriors stance on retaining him.

They’re willing to retain Kuminga for the right price, but they aren’t going to blow up the roster or make big moves like dealing Wiggins, to accommodate him when he hasn’t shown being worth that yet. It’s coin flip whether he’s locked into a new deal or traded at the deadline at this point. Steph, Kerr and Dray got a couple years left. After that, it’s clear books and rebuild. Til then, priority is to make moves to help Steph compete for another title. Setting up for the future with Kuminga is low on the priority list imo

If they can't bundle Kuminga for an upgrade, why would they just let him walk?

He is restricted. The market will limit his settlement figure.

Moving Wiggins is a big move?

Man, I suspect the Warriors would have to attach draft capital. Getting out of his deal for expirings alone is about as clean as it gets.

I could be wrong.

Wiggins isn't a negative. Best wing defender on the team by a wide margin. Guarding the opposing team's best wing every night, even if the offense comes and goes (been more on than off so far this year). Past two years have been rough for him personally, but he seems to have weathered that storm and got back on track this year.

No one said anything about Kuminga walking. As you said, he's restricted. Tradeable up to the deadline. Possibly sign and tradeable in the offseason.

The goal, imo, for the Warriors is a 2022 vibe team. It's why I've been high on a deal for Schroeder and Cam Johnson from the Nets who kind of fill the Poole/Otto Porter roles they're missimg. Honestly, Vuc is more a BJelica type, which, while he was a contributor in 2022, wasn't a big peace worth adding the kind of salary Vuc has. Vuc's benefit to GS depends on how much you believe a Vuc/Dray/Kuminga/Wiggins/Steph lineup works.

gswhoops wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:

NW wrote:
They’re willing to retain Kuminga for the right price, but they aren’t going to blow up the roster or make big moves like dealing Wiggins, to accommodate him when he hasn’t shown being worth that yet. It’s coin flip whether he’s locked into a new deal or traded at the deadline at this point. Steph, Kerr and Dray got a couple years left. After that, it’s clear books and rebuild. Til then, priority is to make moves to help Steph compete for another title. Setting up for the future with Kuminga is low on the priority list imo

If they can't bundle Kuminga for an upgrade, why would they just let him walk?

He is restricted. The market will limit his settlement figure.

Moving Wiggins is a big move?

Man, I suspect the Warriors would have to attach draft capital. Getting out of his deal for expirings alone is about as clean as it gets.

I could be wrong.

I really, really doubt the Warriors would have to attach draft capital to turn Wiggins into expirings. He's looking back to his 2022 form this year - 17/4 shooting 40% from 3 with plus perimeter defense.

I guess the owners can keep both Kuminga on a raise plus Wiggins?

It's not my money.

I just feel if there is a priority, they would lean towards long range planning.

I have a hard time seeing Wiggins being a priority over Kuminga if they decide the choice is one or the other, not both.

The stats look impressive. But Wiggins is owed a load of money for a role player. I don't think he's some missing link for a playoff run for any team.

Klay is gone off that last Warriors team. Steph and Draymond are older.

The West is wide open though, so that landscape tilts towards short term strategy.

Maybe this either/or thing is moot, if the owners plan to pay the tax. Nobody is going to steal Kuminga due to restrictions, and Warriors revenue to match.

Best player in the deal is Coby White, Kuminga is asking for a huge payday and hasn't proven to be worth it, that has to be baked into the price. As a neutral fan, I'd say Bulls should pass. Now if the Warriors want to modify their offer to take out White, Vucevic + another asset for Kuminga + Melton sounds better.

I'm sure the Bulls can do better for White if they made him available.

dcstanley wrote:I'm sure the Bulls can do better for White if they made him available.

I tend to agree.

I'm higher on Ayo (and lower on JK) than most Warriors fans but I could probably be talked into Vuc/Ayo/Craig/protected future 1st for Melton/GP2/Kuminga

dcstanley wrote:I'm sure the Bulls can do better for White if they made him available.

Agreed. I think a team like Orlando would overpay in terms of future picks for a guard just about to enter his prime like White. Maybe the Heat also, they're not really going anywhere and probably don't want to rebuild. Houston, Golden State, Lakers all make sense too. I think there would be a picks-based bidding war.