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So I was reading some other threads and saw the idea that the Pistons want to try and make the play in or more this year. This idea is based on that, but is in its infancy. It doesn’t have money figured, all the players figured, or even the third team figured.

Wolves send out Randle and the Detroit first, Detroit sends out Harris and something, Wolves get back a PG and backup C. I would be fine if the backup C is Beef Stew, but that doesn’t leave a lot of money for the PG. Instead I was thinking about maybe looping in the Pels and figuring out Murray to Minnesota. Honestly this isn’t even a trade suggestion yet, it is a concept. So the first question is whether Detroit would rather replace Harris with Randle? If yes, what players or picks is that worth, and who would want Harris?

More interested in getting the rights to our pick back. Down for the trade, wolves would want to loop in a 3rd team with the money saved going from Harris to Randle

chrbal wrote:More interested in getting the rights to our pick back. Down for the trade, wolves would want to loop in a 3rd team with the money saved going from Harris to Randle

Exactly. I am having trouble finding the right players and figuring out who wants Harris? The best idea I have heard yet is DJM to the Wolves from the Pels. Also I don’t know if he has anything left in his tank, but Daniel Theis as a 15 minute backup C isn’t the worst idea for us. I know his numbers are down, but I don’t know why.

Bare bones, Wolves out Randle and Det 1st, Wolves in Murray and Theis. The question is how do we turn this idea into a successful trade? Does NOP want Harris, (I don’t see it.)

I think your biggest issue is that Murray is worth more than Randle/Det 1st which I suspect you already understand and are trying to bring in a 3rd team to add value to address that.

Texas Chuck wrote:I think your biggest issue is that Murray is worth more than Randle/Det 1st which I suspect you already understand and are trying to bring in a 3rd team to add value to address that.

I think value in this context is relative. Randle on the Wolves is low value. Randle on the Pistons has some value. Murray on the Pels obviously isn’t working. The Pels paid a lot for Murray, and they could try and recoup that cost, but I wonder how much a bottom team is gonna get at the deadline. Add to it the 2nd apron stuff and it gets complicated.

Simons + RWIII from the Blazers for Harris + Asset

To be clear though, I think Harris is better than Randle for the Pistons, so I'm not sure the concept works. You might be able to deal directly with the Blazers --

Randle + Det 1st for Simons + RWIII + 2nds for example. I'd think about that for the Blazers if Randle would promise to not pick up his player option and accept a reasonable buyout for this season.

winforlose wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:I think your biggest issue is that Murray is worth more than Randle/Det 1st which I suspect you already understand and are trying to bring in a 3rd team to add value to address that.

I think value in this context is relative. Randle on the Wolves is low value. Randle on the Pistons has some value. Murray on the Pels obviously isn’t working. The Pels paid a lot for Murray, and they could try and recoup that cost, but I wonder how much a bottom team is gonna get at the deadline. Add to it the 2nd apron stuff and it gets complicated.

Value is always relative to a degree. But it doesn't stretch this far because you can't find a team where Randle is worth as much as Murray would be to the Wolves.

OutsidetheNBA wrote:Simons + RWIII from the Blazers for Harris + Asset

To be clear though, I think Harris is better than Randle for the Pistons, so I'm not sure the concept works. You might be able to deal directly with the Blazers --

Randle + Det 1st for Simons + RWIII + 2nds for example. I'd think about that for the Blazers if Randle would promise to not pick up his player option and accept a reasonable buyout for this season.

It is an interesting suggestion and quite on topic so thank you.

Don’t think there’s a way to add a third team to make up the value for Minnesota

IMO it takes both Dillingham and the Det first to turn Randle into Murray like the other thread had.

If Minnesota could find a first and expirings for Randle, it might not be a bad idea just to do that trade and give Naz a half season/postseason of starting.. I don’t see who that team is though.

Texas Chuck wrote:

winforlose wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:I think your biggest issue is that Murray is worth more than Randle/Det 1st which I suspect you already understand and are trying to bring in a 3rd team to add value to address that.

I think value in this context is relative. Randle on the Wolves is low value. Randle on the Pistons has some value. Murray on the Pels obviously isn’t working. The Pels paid a lot for Murray, and they could try and recoup that cost, but I wonder how much a bottom team is gonna get at the deadline. Add to it the 2nd apron stuff and it gets complicated.

Value is always relative to a degree. But it doesn't stretch this far because you can't find a team where Randle is worth as much as Murray would be to the Wolves.

The value of Randle is his contract. He is a good deal at 33 and next season will also be a good deal if he opts in. If he opts out then it turns to cap relief. I honestly don’t have a good feel for Randle’s value because he is such a mixed bag. Whenever I approximate I end up pissing someone off, so I am trying a more collaborative approach. It doesn’t have to be Murray either. I know what my team has and what it needs, figuring out who needs our pieces is the tricky bit.

Feels like Portland should gladly do Grant for Randle. Maybe makes more sense with a third team, but I’d just do it as is if needed..

I think our SAS fans hated it, but I could see them being the team to “pay most” for Randle, since they’d be getting out of Collins and/or Keldon money and some of the value would be to do that.. And Randle might not be a terrible fit with Wemby for 15-20 mpg.

I think I’d try Tre Jones (homecoming points?), Keldon, and “pick(s)” (protected first or whatever you think?) and then Minnesota can find the third team for Keldon with a 23 million dollar player to offer Det first, and whatever value SAS added.. probably Cam Johnson? But maybe not. Maybe include Dillingham for the right name..

jayjaysee wrote:Feels like Portland should gladly do Grant for Randle. Maybe makes more sense with a third team, but I’d just do it as is if needed..

I think our SAS fans hated it, but I could see them being the team to “pay most” for Randle, since they’d be getting out of Collins and/or Keldon money and some of the value would be to do that.. And Randle might not be a terrible fit with Wemby for 15-20 mpg.

I think I’d try Tre Jones (homecoming points?), Keldon, and “pick(s)” (protected first?) and then Minnesota can find the third team with a 23 million dollar player to offer Det first, and whatever value SAS added.. probably Cam Johnson? But maybe not. Maybe include Dillingham for the right name..

Dilly cost so much that it really does take a nice return for our GM to not be in an even deeper hole. I don’t trust Tim Connelly to make trades that are bad for him, even if they are good for the team.

winforlose wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Feels like Portland should gladly do Grant for Randle. Maybe makes more sense with a third team, but I’d just do it as is if needed..

I think our SAS fans hated it, but I could see them being the team to “pay most” for Randle, since they’d be getting out of Collins and/or Keldon money and some of the value would be to do that.. And Randle might not be a terrible fit with Wemby for 15-20 mpg.

I think I’d try Tre Jones (homecoming points?), Keldon, and “pick(s)” (protected first?) and then Minnesota can find the third team with a 23 million dollar player to offer Det first, and whatever value SAS added.. probably Cam Johnson? But maybe not. Maybe include Dillingham for the right name..

Dilly cost so much that it really does take a nice return for our GM to not be in an even deeper hole. I don’t trust Tim Connelly to make trades that are bad for him, even if they are good for the team.

If you are right, then Minn likely will sit on Randle and the Det first. The KAT trade looks bad enough without accepting Randle was a bad idea.

jayjaysee wrote:

winforlose wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Feels like Portland should gladly do Grant for Randle. Maybe makes more sense with a third team, but I’d just do it as is if needed..

I think our SAS fans hated it, but I could see them being the team to “pay most” for Randle, since they’d be getting out of Collins and/or Keldon money and some of the value would be to do that.. And Randle might not be a terrible fit with Wemby for 15-20 mpg.

I think I’d try Tre Jones (homecoming points?), Keldon, and “pick(s)” (protected first?) and then Minnesota can find the third team with a 23 million dollar player to offer Det first, and whatever value SAS added.. probably Cam Johnson? But maybe not. Maybe include Dillingham for the right name..

Dilly cost so much that it really does take a nice return for our GM to not be in an even deeper hole. I don’t trust Tim Connelly to make trades that are bad for him, even if they are good for the team.

If you are right, then Minn likely will sit on Randle and the Det first. The KAT trade looks bad enough without accepting Randle was a bad idea.

Randle wasn’t the trade target, DDV was. The first helps but it still was not worth KAT. Moving Randle for a good return can be defended because it was phase 2. Dilly was acquired to be the PGOF not a phase 1. It is harder to sell, especially as his reputation gets further dinged up.

winforlose wrote:
The value of Randle is his contract. He is a good deal at 33 and next season will also be a good deal if he opts in. If he opts out then it turns to cap relief. I honestly don’t have a good feel for Randle’s value because he is such a mixed bag. Whenever I approximate I end up pissing someone off, so I am trying a more collaborative approach. It doesn’t have to be Murray either. I know what my team has and what it needs, figuring out who needs our pieces is the tricky bit.

jayjaysee wrote:Feels like Portland should gladly do Grant for Randle. Maybe makes more sense with a third team, but I’d just do it as is if needed..

Consolidating to reply -- the problem with Randle is not that he's bad, it's that he is a difficult fit (something the Wolves have discovered this year). At his best, he's a very good offensive player with the ball in hands. But he's also a negative defender, has been bad in his brief playoff stints, and is not worth his contract if you plan to park him in the corner.

I think he's best as an offensive floor-setter for an up-and-coming team that is trying to improve in the regular season. Basically what the Knicks were. The team fits I see are the Hornets and maybe the Bulls or Pistons. He doesn't make sense for the Blazers (who aren't trying to win) and because his team fits are limited, I don't think his $33m a year option is a "good contract." I think he's a slight negative for most teams.

As a Blazer fan, I wouldn't trade Grant for Randle because I think Grant has more value -- even on his contract -- because he fits better in a variety of contexts. I don't expect a big return for Grant, but 2nds and an expiring seem fair. I don't think there are many teams that can or would trade seconds and an expiring for Randle.

OutsidetheNBA wrote:

winforlose wrote:
The value of Randle is his contract. He is a good deal at 33 and next season will also be a good deal if he opts in. If he opts out then it turns to cap relief. I honestly don’t have a good feel for Randle’s value because he is such a mixed bag. Whenever I approximate I end up pissing someone off, so I am trying a more collaborative approach. It doesn’t have to be Murray either. I know what my team has and what it needs, figuring out who needs our pieces is the tricky bit.

jayjaysee wrote:Feels like Portland should gladly do Grant for Randle. Maybe makes more sense with a third team, but I’d just do it as is if needed..

Consolidating to reply -- the problem with Randle is not that he's bad, it's that he is a difficult fit (something the Wolves have discovered this year). At his best, he's a very good offensive player with the ball in hands. But he's also a negative defender, has been bad in his brief playoff stints, and is not worth his contract if you plan to park him in the corner.

I think he's best as an offensive floor-setter for an up-and-coming team that is trying to improve in the regular season. Basically what the Knicks were. The team fits I see are the Hornets and maybe the Bulls or Pistons. He doesn't make sense for the Blazers (who aren't trying to win) and because his team fits are limited, I don't think his $33m a year option is a "good contract." I think he's a slight negative for most teams.

As a Blazer fan, I wouldn't trade Grant for Randle because I think Grant has more value -- even on his contract -- because he fits better in a variety of contexts. I don't expect a big return for Grant, but 2nds and an expiring seem fair. I don't think there are many teams that can or would trade seconds and an expiring for Randle.

This thread makes a suggestion of trading Randle to Detroit for Harris, then Harris and whatever else to a 3rd team. Is Harris a better fit?

One thing to consider is that the Wolves may only be interested in long term large salary if it’s the right player. They still need to try to re-sign Reid and NAW in the offseason and unless they’re totally in love with him and think he’s the missing piece, a guy like Grant may make that very tough.

Mamba4Goat wrote:One thing to consider is that the Wolves may only be interested in long term large salary if it’s the right player. They still need to try to re-sign Reid and NAW in the offseason and unless they’re totally in love with him and think he’s the missing piece, a guy like Grant may make that very tough.

I agree. Simons and RW3 is still interesting. Especially if you keep RW and move Simons to a fourth team. I could see Simons and maybe TSJ returning Murray, or if you think Murray is too much maybe Simons for Coby White? If you could turn Randle and the Pick into White and RW3 while still having DDV.

Ivey and stew for Randle works. Add picks?
Or
Was sends JVal and Brogdon to Minnesota
Det sends Harris to Washington
Minnesota sends Randle to Detroit
Add in picks as needed

Xman wrote:Ivey and stew for Randle works. Add picks?
Or
Was sends JVal and Brogdon to Minnesota
Det sends Harris to Washington
Minnesota sends Randle to Detroit
Add in picks as needed

Ivey and Stew, no. But I'd do that second deal, the 3 teamer


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