Kings/Spurs

[sackings916]

Kings trade:
Deaaron Fox

Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Keldon Johnson
ATL 25 1st rd pick

Why for Sac- they cash in on Fox for young pieces

Why for SA- they pair Wemby with an all star guard in Fox

[wemby]

This framework was discussed in many other threads. Castle is a deal breaker to me, and I'd prefer not to deal Sochan but if there's no other way I might reluctantly listen. I would probably counter something like Fox, Huerter and Lyles for Vassell, Keldon Johnson and Tre Jones plus a couple picks (could be Bulls 25 and Hawks 25, both promising, plus Charlotte 25, probably seconds). But I´d like to know I can extend Fox for a reasonable number before I put down any offer. If this doesn't get it done (probably) then I'm fine passing.

PS: For the record, I believe the Rockets are the best trading partner for Fox if the Kings want to tear it down... too many iffy prospects to keep, they need to consolidate, so they can do something like Jabari Smith Jr + Sheppard + Cam Whitmore + picks for Fox

[SlimShady83]

Love to see Wemby with someone like Fox/Young

[One_and_Done]

Kings trade:
Deaaron Fox

Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Keldon Johnson
ATL 25 1st rd pick

Why for Sac- they cash in on Fox for young pieces

Why for SA- they pair Wemby with an all star guard in Fox

Spurs aren't trading anything like this for Fox.

If they trade for him it's going to be a pick focussed package, and it's not going to be as many picks as you think.

[sackings916]

Kings trade:
Deaaron Fox

Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Keldon Johnson
ATL 25 1st rd pick

Why for Sac- they cash in on Fox for young pieces

Why for SA- they pair Wemby with an all star guard in Fox

Spurs aren't trading anything like this for Fox.

If they trade for him it's going to be a pick focussed package, and it's not going to be as many picks as you think.

What does this package look like?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Keldon, Tre Jones, Sochan, 2025 ATL 1st, 2025 CHI 1st (top 10/8 prot) 2027 ATL 1st, 2029 SAS 1st

[sackings916]

Keldon, Tre Jones, Sochan, 2025 ATL 1st, 2025 CHI 1st (top 10/8 prot) 2027 ATL 1st, 2029 SAS 1st

Replace Keldon +Tre with Vassell?

[Chinook]

I don't believe the Spurs have any interest in making a major trade like this. They aren't close to being a contender, and while the picks aren't necessarily guaranteed to be great, their value comes from the fact that they can be used in the next year or two when it's closer to the time to try to win around Wemby. Throwing him a max contract in free agency? I could see that. Trading for him as if they open up a contending window after the deal? No.

Like it or not, the Spurs need time and development, not the infusion of talent that makes for good NBA chatter.

[One_and_Done]

Keldon, Tre Jones, Sochan, 2025 ATL 1st, 2025 CHI 1st (top 10/8 prot) 2027 ATL 1st, 2029 SAS 1st

Way too much.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think SAC would push for Castle, Sochan or Vasell but see SAS pushing a picks based package.

Keldon Johnson
Tre Jones
2025 ATL FRP UNP
2025 CHI FRP (Top 10 / Top 8)
2027 ATL FRP UNP
2029 SAS FRP (Top 10 / Top 8)
2031 MIN FRP UNP

I think thats the most SAS would offer. They are big on internal development and if it cost their young guys, I think they pass.

Fox / Castle / Vassell / Sochan / Wemby - think thats pretty strong short and long term - bench would need a revamp this summer though.

[One_and_Done]

Kings trade:
Deaaron Fox

Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Keldon Johnson
ATL 25 1st rd pick

Why for Sac- they cash in on Fox for young pieces

Why for SA- they pair Wemby with an all star guard in Fox

Spurs aren't trading anything like this for Fox.

If they trade for him it's going to be a pick focussed package, and it's not going to be as many picks as you think.

What does this package look like?

I mean, Fox is a guy highly reliant on athleticism, and he's 27. He wants a 50 mill a year contract, the last few years of which will definitely be bad given you don't get faster and more athletic after 30. He's also only under contract for 1.5 years, meaning the Kings leverage is somewhat limited. They have some leverage, but not that much if Fox wants out.

With that in mind, I don't think the Spurs are going to be offering a bazillion picks. Most of the packages here look like what you'd trade for Ant, not Fox. I think you could get the Bulls lotto pick, maybe 2 Hawks picks of the Spurs choosing, a heavily protected 1st of some kind, and that'd be it mostly. All this stuff about Sochan and Vassell and Castle, and all these other picks, seems fanciful.

[jbk1234]

I'm not that high on Fox, but there will be multiple bidders and this talk of him be too old at 27 is silly. If you share Chinook's opinion and don't believe the time is right for a big move, that"s a reasonable opinion. However, treating this like a car sale where if you just haggle you can knock more of the price isn't how it's going to work. Someone else is going to end up with Fox.

[One_and_Done]

I'm not that high on Fox, but there will be multiple bidders and this talk of him be too old at 27 is silly. If you share Chinook's opinion and don't believe the time is right for a big move, that"s a reasonable opinion. However, treating this like a car sale where if you just haggle you can knock more of the price isn't how it's going to work. Someone else is going to end up with Fox.

Everything about the Spurs MO is that they don't feel pressured to overpay for guys or shake things up. They are a very conservative organisation who rarely makes trades, and only when they make sense. If your goal is a bidding war, the Spurs will just sit it out. At 27, Fox isn't exactly on Wemby's timeline.

The person who most wants Fox in SA is Rich Paul. He wants the exposure and money that'll come from playing with Wemby, and the access to other Spurs players (like Wemby) if he is the agent for one of the Spurs stars. It's more likely that the Spurs just stand pat, and Klutch starts trying to force Fix there closer to the end of his contract, than it is the Spurs overpay.

I think there's zero chance either Sochan or Castle would be moved, and I don't see much reason to move Vassell either.

[Texas Chuck]

I think we shouldn't speak so confidently about what the Spurs might or might not do. Sure when you have a 20 year run with Tim Duncan with Manu and Parker along for most of that with guys like David Robinson and Kawhi making meaningful cameos, there is zero need for a big blockbuster.

Maybe Wemby is Tim Duncan, but probably not. Remember Tim Duncan hit the league as both a DPOY and MVP level player in year 1 and went up from there. Wemby has a ton of talent, but he's not having the impact Duncan was having immediately. And the likelihood of him being a Spur and playing at an elite level for 15 years feels super super unlikely.

Doesn't mean Spurs should trade for Fox at all much less include any specific players in the deal. But I would expect a smart organization to not think they can replicate the Duncan era by getting lucky with late draft picks not once, not twice, but three times.

[jayjaysee]

I think SAS would do well to maximize Wemby’s rookie contract now that they are too good to tank. IMOI teams should push in once that happens.. Especially if you can keep Castle (and one of Sochan/Vassell) out of it..

But at that point, it has to be a volume package? Doesn’t feel like that is a controversial take.

[One_and_Done]

I think we shouldn't speak so confidently about what the Spurs might or might not do. Sure when you have a 20 year run with Tim Duncan with Manu and Parker along for most of that with guys like David Robinson and Kawhi making meaningful cameos, there is zero need for a big blockbuster.

Maybe Wemby is Tim Duncan, but probably not. Remember Tim Duncan hit the league as both a DPOY and MVP level player in year 1 and went up from there. Wemby has a ton of talent, but he's not having the impact Duncan was having immediately. And the likelihood of him being a Spur and playing at an elite level for 15 years feels super super unlikely.

Doesn't mean Spurs should trade for Fox at all much less include any specific players in the deal. But I would expect a smart organization to not think they can replicate the Duncan era by getting lucky with late draft picks not once, not twice, but three times.

I think there is ample evidence from the 9 years since Duncan retired about the kind of front office the Spurs have. It remains a very conservative one, that is very cautious and deliberate about the moves it makes. They already said thanks but no thanks to Trae, I imagine their attitude will be the same with Fox. If a deal makes sense then they'll do it, but they aren't going to panic or overpay.

I also don't think the Spurs need to rely on late draft picks moving forward, because they have a tonne of other teams picks to reload with into the future, many of which look pretty tasty.

[Chinook]

That's a great argument for why they shouldn't try to trade all their early draft picks chasing after a star. Wemby is not Tim Duncan. Tim's readiness was superlative just like Wemby's skill/size is. That's why one shouldn't act like trading for a non-franchise player makes sense.

Wemby doesn't need "help" to get to the next level. He needs time. Yes, that might mean the Spurs only have four to six years of legit contention before Wemby walks after his DPE extension. But they could have fewer than that if they dump picks they need to be using for a star during years where Wemby isn't ready.

This would be different if we were talking about 2004 Shaq -- an old franchise player to add to a rising franchise player. If the Warriors were trading Curry, yeah, you can back up a truck for him. Because you're actually getting a window for your money and not the idea that being young means you get more time not being good enough.

The Spurs shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that they have Duncan, and they shouldn't make the mistake of thinking they have a 15-year window. They need to strike well, not impulsively. They're far more likely to get a trade demand by striking and missing than they are by waiting to strike. With the picks the Spurs have in their coffers, they maintain extra draft capital well into Wemby's second contract. They can pull a Milwaukee and do a big trade if Wemby forces them to. But they can't do that if they've already blown their picks on guys who weren't the answer.

[jbk1234]

I'm not that high on Fox, but there will be multiple bidders and this talk of him be too old at 27 is silly. If you share Chinook's opinion and don't believe the time is right for a big move, that"s a reasonable opinion. However, treating this like a car sale where if you just haggle you can knock more of the price isn't how it's going to work. Someone else is going to end up with Fox.

Everything about the Spurs MO is that they don't feel pressured to overpay for guys or shake things up. They are a very conservative organisation who rarely makes trades, and only when they make sense. If your goal is a bidding war, the Spurs will just sit it out. At 27, Fox isn't exactly on Wemby's timeline.

The person who most wants Fox in SA is Rich Paul. He wants the exposure and money that'll come from playing with Wemby, and the access to other Spurs players (like Wemby) if he is the agent for one of the Spurs stars. It's more likely that the Spurs just stand pat, and Klutch starts trying to force Fix there closer to the end of his contract, than it is the Spurs overpay.

I think there's zero chance either Sochan or Castle would be moved, and I don't see much reason to move Vassell either.

The last part is the crazy to me. The Spurs have one season left of team control on Sochan after this season and then he's getting a new deal. Castle's TS% is currently below 50%. Vassell is a three and D specialist, but he's no Danny Green. He's not even O.G. Anounoby.

The common sentiment among Spurs fans seem to be to offer guys who don't have positive value as filler and then argue about picks. Maybe such an opportunity presents itself, but it's hard to see that being a preferred bid.

[One_and_Done]

I'm not that high on Fox, but there will be multiple bidders and this talk of him be too old at 27 is silly. If you share Chinook's opinion and don't believe the time is right for a big move, that"s a reasonable opinion. However, treating this like a car sale where if you just haggle you can knock more of the price isn't how it's going to work. Someone else is going to end up with Fox.

Everything about the Spurs MO is that they don't feel pressured to overpay for guys or shake things up. They are a very conservative organisation who rarely makes trades, and only when they make sense. If your goal is a bidding war, the Spurs will just sit it out. At 27, Fox isn't exactly on Wemby's timeline.

The person who most wants Fox in SA is Rich Paul. He wants the exposure and money that'll come from playing with Wemby, and the access to other Spurs players (like Wemby) if he is the agent for one of the Spurs stars. It's more likely that the Spurs just stand pat, and Klutch starts trying to force Fix there closer to the end of his contract, than it is the Spurs overpay.

I think there's zero chance either Sochan or Castle would be moved, and I don't see much reason to move Vassell either.

The last part is the crazy to me. The Spurs have one season left of team control on Sochan after this season and then he's getting a new deal. Castle's TS% is currently below 50%. Vassell is a three and D specialist, but he's no Danny Green. He's not even O.G. Anounoby.

The common sentiment among Spurs fans seem to be to offer guys who don't have positive value as filler and then argue about picks. Maybe such an opportunity presents itself, but it's hard to see that being a preferred bid.

Then the Spurs don't do the deal, just like they passed on Trae.

With young guys it's about the flashes. Sochan is 21. Castle just turned 20. Of course they're not going to look like finished products yet, but based on what I've seen there's zero chance they're traded in this kind of deal. It wouldn't be a surprise if one of these guys was better than Fox in 3 years time. They're already much better on defense. Vassell 'isn't OG', but that doesn't mean the Spurs are throwing him into deals. OG just got a max type deal, that's a high bar. Vassell is a good young player, and if the Spurs are trying to win now it makes sense to keep him.

[jbk1234]

Everything about the Spurs MO is that they don't feel pressured to overpay for guys or shake things up. They are a very conservative organisation who rarely makes trades, and only when they make sense. If your goal is a bidding war, the Spurs will just sit it out. At 27, Fox isn't exactly on Wemby's timeline.

The person who most wants Fox in SA is Rich Paul. He wants the exposure and money that'll come from playing with Wemby, and the access to other Spurs players (like Wemby) if he is the agent for one of the Spurs stars. It's more likely that the Spurs just stand pat, and Klutch starts trying to force Fix there closer to the end of his contract, than it is the Spurs overpay.

I think there's zero chance either Sochan or Castle would be moved, and I don't see much reason to move Vassell either.

The last part is the crazy to me. The Spurs have one season left of team control on Sochan after this season and then he's getting a new deal. Castle's TS% is currently below 50%. Vassell is a three and D specialist, but he's no Danny Green. He's not even O.G. Anounoby.

The common sentiment among Spurs fans seem to be to offer guys who don't have positive value as filler and then argue about picks. Maybe such an opportunity presents itself, but it's hard to see that being a preferred bid.

Then the Spurs don't do the deal, just like they passed on Trae.

With young guys it's about the flashes. Sochan is 21. Castle just turned 20. Of course they're not going to look like finished products yet, but based on what I've seen there's zero chance they're traded in this kind of deal. It wouldn't be a surprise if one of these guys was better than Fox in 3 years time. They're already much better on defense. Vassell 'isn't OG', but that doesn't mean the Spurs are throwing him into deals. OG just got a max type deal, that's a high bar. Vassell is a good young player, and if the Spurs are trying to win now it makes sense to keep him.

It would've made sense for the Cavs to trade an expiring Love and hold onto Lauri (and Agbaji), but the Jazz weren't going to send out Mitchell without any promising players coming back.