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SAC smells a little like Dwight Howard mess...fire the coach, appease the "star" and then he asks out anyway. I think they'll be desperate to make a splashy trade, specifically for defense...I think Isaac next to Sabonis makes a lot of sense for them and Isaac's deal descends so dramatically that the SAC GM can brag about it...Still plenty of offense from Sabonis, Fox, Derozan, etc and if Keegan, Carter, and Huerter play a little more like they should...still, potentially, a very good team. I really do like the Sabonis/Fox pairing - but Sabonis DOES need a long defensive ace next to him to live his best life.

ORL sends: Isaac, Gary Harris
SAC sends: Monk, Lyles

ORL gets the 6th man flamethrower in Monk and a big body with an expiring deal to get them through this injury-riddled year (and maybe beyond if he agrees to a team-friendly deal and likes the fit, the weather, and the taxes).

SAC gets an instant one man defensive makeover, even in limited minutes, and financial benefit as well. Harris is a reliable, solid rotation 3&D with an expiring deal. Heady vet presence for the young guys too. He won't take over games, but he rarely makes boneheaded moves on either end.

Move a 1st for a guy like Monk, there are plenty of players that fit his mold. No interest in giving up JI even more so now after Moe got injured.

I think Orlando needs to be real cautious on making any reactionary moves off an irregular injury riddled season.

Not saying Isaac is untouchable, but I think everyone’s role has changed in light of the injuries and everyone is adjusting and trying to find their way (including Suggs which looks like a different player than earlier this season).

I like Monk, but agree with Residual that I would be a little reluctant to include JI for any player that fits Monks archetype.

dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

BoogieTime wrote:dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

I cannot understand why nobody in Orlando’s fan group cannot see that Isaac literally has almost no trade value to other teams.

A guy who has spent his ENTIRE career injured and can barely play 20 minutes a night is not a value piece for trade - no matter how much he impacts those twenty minutes. He is absolutely not getting you the value piece that didn’t want to sign with you this past summer.

OGSactownballer wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

I cannot understand why nobody in Orlando’s fan group cannot see that Isaac literally has almost no trade value to other teams.

A guy who has spent his ENTIRE career injured and can barely play 20 minutes a night is not a value piece for trade - no matter how much he impacts those twenty minutes. He is absolutely not getting you the value piece that didn’t want to sign with you this past summer.

I’d speculate that it’s because we watch him play and see the effect he has every minute he’s on the floor. A lot of it may not show up in the box score.

OGSactownballer wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

I cannot understand why nobody in Orlando’s fan group cannot see that Isaac literally has almost no trade value to other teams.

A guy who has spent his ENTIRE career injured and can barely play 20 minutes a night is not a value piece for trade - no matter how much he impacts those twenty minutes. He is absolutely not getting you the value piece that didn’t want to sign with you this past summer.

I mean I'd send the guy to a re-education camp if I was in charge, but he is that good on defence. EPM has him as the #1 forward in the league on D this year (8th overall, but Caruso, Thompson and Dunn are guards, Chet, Wemby, Embiid and Zubac are centers).

Skybox wrote:

OGSactownballer wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

I cannot understand why nobody in Orlando’s fan group cannot see that Isaac literally has almost no trade value to other teams.

A guy who has spent his ENTIRE career injured and can barely play 20 minutes a night is not a value piece for trade - no matter how much he impacts those twenty minutes. He is absolutely not getting you the value piece that didn’t want to sign with you this past summer.

I’d speculate that it’s because we watch him play and see the effect he has every minute he’s on the floor. A lot of it may not show up in the box score.

He’s married to his opinions which he’s entitled to so there’s no point in explaining further (even though countless posters have explained why his reasoning and position is just flat out wrong).

Isaac is practically top-5 in almost every advanced defensive metric, some even higher than Wemby.

He obviously has offensive limitations, but to say his kind of defense isn’t worth anything for 20m a night for a team severely lacking any type of defensive identity is absolutely crazy but Kangs will Kangs.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

Skybox wrote:

OGSactownballer wrote:
I cannot understand why nobody in Orlando’s fan group cannot see that Isaac literally has almost no trade value to other teams.

A guy who has spent his ENTIRE career injured and can barely play 20 minutes a night is not a value piece for trade - no matter how much he impacts those twenty minutes. He is absolutely not getting you the value piece that didn’t want to sign with you this past summer.

I’d speculate that it’s because we watch him play and see the effect he has every minute he’s on the floor. A lot of it may not show up in the box score.

He’s married to his opinions which he’s entitled to so there’s no point in explaining further (even though countless posters have explained why his reasoning and position is just flat out wrong).

Isaac is practically top-5 in almost every advanced defensive metric, some even higher than Wemby.

He obviously has offensive limitations, but to say his kind of defense isn’t worth anything for 20m a night for a team severely lacking any type of defensive identity is absolutely crazy but Kangs will Kangs.

The whole thought in my proposal was that Isaac is yin to Sabonis’ yang…they complete each other beautifully.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

Skybox wrote:

OGSactownballer wrote:
I cannot understand why nobody in Orlando’s fan group cannot see that Isaac literally has almost no trade value to other teams.

A guy who has spent his ENTIRE career injured and can barely play 20 minutes a night is not a value piece for trade - no matter how much he impacts those twenty minutes. He is absolutely not getting you the value piece that didn’t want to sign with you this past summer.

I’d speculate that it’s because we watch him play and see the effect he has every minute he’s on the floor. A lot of it may not show up in the box score.

He’s married to his opinions which he’s entitled to so there’s no point in explaining further (even though countless posters have explained why his reasoning and position is just flat out wrong).

Isaac is practically top-5 in almost every advanced defensive metric, some even higher than Wemby.

He obviously has offensive limitations, but to say his kind of defense isn’t worth anything for 20m a night for a team severely lacking any type of defensive identity is absolutely crazy but Kangs will Kangs.

You’re entirely missing my point.

I don’t care if he is the reincarnation of Wilt and Russell in one body. If the guy cannot play forty minutes for 25 playoff games guaranteed? He’s not worth anything to any other team.

You have a unique situation in ORL at this particular moment where when healthy you have so many bigs that you can get away with spot playing Isaac as a specialist for limited minutes to HOPE that he doesn’t break yet again. Other teams - and especially the Kings - just don’t have that depth in bigs to do that.

We need a guy who is durable enough to be playing at least 75 games a year plus playoffs for forty minutes a night without worrying or limiting his minutes.

This is why I say he has zero value to another team. There just isn’t the fit.

Now if you were dealing with Boston or someone where he can do the same thing he is doing for you, that’s a different story. But those teams aren’t dumb enough to give up a ton of value for a twenty minute a night role player either.

So try being realistic about his value for trade and understand that you aren’t moving him as part of a package for an all NBA guy without basing it on a young potential star, some other young potential guys and picks.

That’s the market these days.

I mean I don't think JI has much trade value, but guys don't have to play 40 mpg for a Finals run to have value to other teams. That's just so hyperbolic as to be utterly meaningless.

The little Mavs have two centers who share the position and sometimes they play Kleber at center. So on any given night one of those centers is only playing around 20mpg. I assure you both Lively and Gafford have value not only to Dallas but would to other teams including the mighty Kings.

Texas Chuck wrote:I mean I don't think JI has much trade value, but guys don't have to play 40 mpg for a Finals run to have value to other teams. That's just so hyperbolic as to be utterly meaningless.

The little Mavs have two centers who share the position and sometimes they play Kleber at center. So on any given night one of those centers is only playing around 20mpg. I assure you both Lively and Gafford have value not only to Dallas but would to other teams including the mighty Kings.

All fair enough and completely valid.

However there is a vast difference between a team trying to make playoffs and hope to get lucky/figure it out, and teams that are actual contenders.

Those contenders can handle that situation and make it work. The few other teams with an overloaded front court can make it work.

The other 22-24 teams? Not happening.

OGSactownballer wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

Skybox wrote:
I’d speculate that it’s because we watch him play and see the effect he has every minute he’s on the floor. A lot of it may not show up in the box score.

He’s married to his opinions which he’s entitled to so there’s no point in explaining further (even though countless posters have explained why his reasoning and position is just flat out wrong).

Isaac is practically top-5 in almost every advanced defensive metric, some even higher than Wemby.

He obviously has offensive limitations, but to say his kind of defense isn’t worth anything for 20m a night for a team severely lacking any type of defensive identity is absolutely crazy but Kangs will Kangs.

You’re entirely missing my point.

I don’t care if he is the reincarnation of Wilt and Russell in one body. If the guy cannot play forty minutes for 25 playoff games guaranteed? He’s not worth anything to any other team.

You have a unique situation in ORL at this particular moment where when healthy you have so many bigs that you can get away with spot playing Isaac as a specialist for limited minutes to HOPE that he doesn’t break yet again. Other teams - and especially the Kings - just don’t have that depth in bigs to do that.

We need a guy who is durable enough to be playing at least 75 games a year plus playoffs for forty minutes a night without worrying or limiting his minutes.

This is why I say he has zero value to another team. There just isn’t the fit.

Now if you were dealing with Boston or someone where he can do the same thing he is doing for you, that’s a different story. But those teams aren’t dumb enough to give up a ton of value for a twenty minute a night role player either.

So try being realistic about his value for trade and understand that you aren’t moving him as part of a package for an all NBA guy without basing it on a young potential star, some other young potential guys and picks.

That’s the market these days.

wow i cant imagine what his value would be if he could guarantee that? on a 15 mill a yr contract and 3 yrs not guaranteed..

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

no one outside of Orlando is wanting to pay Isaac for the 15 mpg every other game he can play

orlando_joe wrote:

OGSactownballer wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
He’s married to his opinions which he’s entitled to so there’s no point in explaining further (even though countless posters have explained why his reasoning and position is just flat out wrong).

Isaac is practically top-5 in almost every advanced defensive metric, some even higher than Wemby.

He obviously has offensive limitations, but to say his kind of defense isn’t worth anything for 20m a night for a team severely lacking any type of defensive identity is absolutely crazy but Kangs will Kangs.

You’re entirely missing my point.

I don’t care if he is the reincarnation of Wilt and Russell in one body. If the guy cannot play forty minutes for 25 playoff games guaranteed? He’s not worth anything to any other team.

You have a unique situation in ORL at this particular moment where when healthy you have so many bigs that you can get away with spot playing Isaac as a specialist for limited minutes to HOPE that he doesn’t break yet again. Other teams - and especially the Kings - just don’t have that depth in bigs to do that.

We need a guy who is durable enough to be playing at least 75 games a year plus playoffs for forty minutes a night without worrying or limiting his minutes.

This is why I say he has zero value to another team. There just isn’t the fit.

Now if you were dealing with Boston or someone where he can do the same thing he is doing for you, that’s a different story. But those teams aren’t dumb enough to give up a ton of value for a twenty minute a night role player either.

So try being realistic about his value for trade and understand that you aren’t moving him as part of a package for an all NBA guy without basing it on a young potential star, some other young potential guys and picks.

That’s the market these days.

wow i cant imagine what his value would be if he could guarantee that? on a 15 mill a yr contract and 3 yrs not guaranteed..

If he could guarantee that he’s worth freaking a lot !


But as is his value is minimised abit at 20min this year with this year salary matching . Will get better in offseason when his salary drop.

Hell of a backup if your team can afford his salary in your team structure.

this is a waste of time, but consider how close $15m per with outs is to the MLE...you're just not getting the impact of an Isaac anywhere else. He could lead a good team in blocks AND steals, even playing 20mpg...and most of his defensive impact isn't easily measured...Just watch some game time - he's NEVER invisible when he's out there. I've just never seen anyone like him, from stumping a speedy 6' guard on the perimeter like a giant octopus and then dropping back to block an opposing Center at the rim...he's nuts and completely selfless in his play.

The injury concerns are real...but his new deal outweighs them, imo. ORL can explore moving him ONLY because their offense sucks and they have Suggs, KCP, Franz, and Goga who are all excellent defenders...the first three maybe in consideration for All-Defense, with Goga playing dominant defense around the rim lately.

Happy to keep him...just figured he might have to be in play for a big offensive upgrade and I always liked him next to Sabonis. Sabonis is so talented offensively, but has treadmill written all over him if you can't compensate for his non-center defense. If you average Isaac and Sabonis, you'd have the equivalent of two very good two-way players.

Skybox wrote:this is a waste of time, but consider how close $15m per with outs is to the MLE...you're just not getting the impact of an Isaac anywhere else. He could lead a good team in blocks AND steals, even playing 20mpg...and most of his defensive impact isn't easily measured...Just watch some game time - he's NEVER invisible when he's out there. I've just never seen anyone like him, from stumping a speedy 6' guard on the perimeter like a giant octopus and then dropping back to block an opposing Center at the rim...he's nuts and completely selfless in his play.

The injury concerns are real...but his new deal outweighs them, imo. ORL can explore moving him ONLY because their offense sucks and they have Suggs, KCP, Franz, and Goga who are all excellent defenders...the first three maybe in consideration for All-Defense, with Goga playing dominant defense around the rim lately.

Happy to keep him...just figured he might have to be in play for a big offensive upgrade and I always liked him next to Sabonis. Sabonis is so talented offensively, but has treadmill written all over him if you can't compensate for his non-center defense. If you average Isaac and Sabonis, you'd have the equivalent of two very good two-way players.

The thing here is that if you look at it that way, you cannot call it that he is a “complimentary player” next to Sabonis. He isn’t starting and/or playing next to Sabonis thirty five plus minutes a night and having a true balance and impact. That’s just obviously not reality for him.

i just don't see Isaac having any value to most teams, I'm sure that is why he has been included in most of the trade ideas surrounding Orlando. If you would like to do Huerter and lyles for Isaac I think that is a lot closer, but I still don't love adding a guy to the roster who we can expect to miss more than half of his games.

tiderulz wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:dont know how many times now but, Isaac is now unplayable offensively to go along with being a bad injury risk, he shouldn't be a Kings target, and not for Malik. And with Fox likely heading out, the guards we have need to be kept

And I don’t know how many times now, but you are not trading for Isaac for his offense.

He should definitely be a Kings target because of Kings putrid defense. They do not need any more offensive minded players and this season proves you cannot win without defense which Isaac provides at an elite level.

However, I agree with you regarding Foxx and planning for the inevitable.

no one outside of Orlando is wanting to pay Isaac for the 15 mpg every other game he can play

so if he plays over 13 more games at 12 min a game more this season he over achieves in your view? good to know