RealGM

Sorry for the "we" and "our" stuff...I don't actually play for ORL, I just wrote this from their perspective, on ORL board

ORL sends: Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, Jett Howard, Moe Wagner
ORL gets: Kelly Olynyk, Lonzo Ball
Why: Lonzo is everything we like...big, solid defender, high BBIQ/court vision, low turnovers, good 3pt shooter. Massive injury risk, but large expiring deal. He'd be a terrific example for what AB could become as they play alongside one another/spend time together. Lonzo tightens up the second unit and allows Mose to maintain 48 mins of long, hellish, defensive guard play. Lonzo is one of the best connectors in the league...it's no coincidence that all of the CHI players looked suddenly great last year - until Lonzo went down and they all, suddenly, weren't good players anymore. He's one of the great team "lifters" around. His injury risk is, I know, huge...but he's an expiring deal - so look at it like Jingles last year. Essentially, no long-term harm if he falls apart...we have more cap space this summer, at worst. Olynyk is like a slightly different flavor of Moe, whose offense we need to replace. He's smart, a better shooter and passer than Moe, and, along with Ball, would raise the IQ, ball movement, and floor spreading of the second unit by a considerable amount.He's got one more year, but he's versatile enough that, even at full strength, ORL can find minutes for him at 4/5.
*There's an understanding that Moe is immediately bought out by CHI, and never leaves Franz' couch. Depending on his rehab, we talk more with Moe about the future starting in the summer. This is more than fair to Moe...we love him, but let's not get too romantic about what's "owed" to him...this is a creative twist to keep him in the "family", but not sink the ship to accommodate him.

CHI sends: Lonzo Ball
CHI gets: Moe Wagner (buyout), Gary Harris(solid vet but TO/expiring/buyout/flip candidate), Jett Howard (21yo prospect)
Why: CHI moves an expiring out for an intriguing young prospect and saves salary immediately with buyouts and/or flips, expirings. Clearly, not necessarily a win-now move for CHI...which would be smart, as they survey the Vuc & Lavine markets for more youth and draft equity. Howard's quick trigger and range, along with good size, make him an intriguing & inexpensive complement to Giddey.

TOR sends: Kelly Olynyk
TOR gets: Cole Anthony, 2 srps
Why: TOR is in sell-mode for older vets, etc as they re-tool on the fly. Salaries and contract length (one more year) line up, so it's a wash, financially, for both. TOR grabs some draft equity and gets a look at a still-young, dynamic guard, with the best personality in the NBA. Cole is definitely a candidate for "flourish in a new setting" potential. He's certainly good enough to contribute to TOR PG depth, but the draft equity is really the point for TOR. Some nights, he's Kyrie. Some nights, he's...not

I love the idea of Lonzo in Orlando, but I can't see Orlando sending Moe. If Chicago is looking to shed salary, it should be fine without Moe. Can't imagine Lonzo's trade value is very high due to his injury history.

we can probably sell olynyk for expiring and seconds and not have to take on anthony's 2nd year, pass.

NotACat wrote:I love the idea of Lonzo in Orlando, but I can't see Orlando sending Moe. If Chicago is looking to shed salary, it should be fine without Moe. Can't imagine Lonzo's trade value is very high due to his injury history.

Got to match salary somehow and the idea is Mo's not going anywhere. He doesn't HAVE to agree to a buyout, but he could if he wants to. It's not a sure thing that ORL or anybody exercises a team option on a bench guy who probably won't be back until next January...Lonzo's trade value is very low, but he's an expiring deal, at worst...a really great player, like Isaac, in a limited role...as long as you can keep him upright, he could help any team play better.

My hope would be to re-up Moe to a multi-year, team-friendly deal to "come back" to ORL, this summer. Depending on what direction ORL takes, Moe could become a cap casualty in ORL no matter who his brother is and regardless of injury status.

Maybe you should watch a Bulls game. Ball is rounding into what he used to be which was a difference maker for CHI. Last night limited to 26 minutes, scored 4 points, was a +25 in an OT win for those of you who watch those numbers. The Bulls as a franchise doesn't trade for player to buyout. They 10X better off playing Lonzo, who they don't see as just a $20M trading chip.

Godaddycurse wrote:we can probably sell olynyk for expiring and seconds and not have to take on anthony's 2nd year, pass.

maybe...not too many teams have significant expiring salary/summer cap space - but I'm sure some do. Maybe a little more draft equity or Howard, somehow, goes TOR's way...I think Cole is a viable NBA player, as much as Olynyk...just deserves a fresh start. Cole has certainly shown flashes of big-moment brilliance since his rookie year. He has it in him, just needs to find consistency.

I don't disagree...we'll see who bites.

ChettheJet wrote:Maybe you should watch a Bulls game. Ball is rounding into what he used to be which was a difference maker for CHI. Last night limited to 26 minutes, scored 4 points, was a +25 in an OT win for those of you who watch those numbers. The Bulls as a franchise doesn't trade for player to buyout. They 10X better off playing Lonzo, who they don't see as just a $20M trading chip.

Awesome. Keep it rolling...see you in the play-in

This seems bad for the Raptors (no need to take on Cole Anthony), good for the Bulls (I like Jett Howard as a reclamation project) and reasonable for the Magic (moves bad money, expirings and an underwhelming project for a contributor and expiring salary).

ChettheJet wrote:Maybe you should watch a Bulls game. Ball is rounding into what he used to be which was a difference maker for CHI. Last night limited to 26 minutes, scored 4 points, was a +25 in an OT win for those of you who watch those numbers. The Bulls as a franchise doesn't trade for player to buyout. They 10X better off playing Lonzo, who they don't see as just a $20M trading chip.

I certainly hope you're right, as a Spurs fan hoping you stay out of the bottom 10.

This is your proposal. Below is an amended version I could support from Toronto's perspective.

Skybox wrote:ORL sends: Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, Jett Howard, Moe Wagner
ORL gets: Kelly Olynyk, Lonzo Ball

CHI sends: Lonzo Ball
CHI gets: Moe Wagner (buyout), Gary Harris(solid vet but TO/expiring/buyout/flip candidate), Jett Howard (21yo prospect)

TOR sends: Kelly Olynyk
TOR gets: Cole Anthony, 2 srps

Toronto doesn't need more back court players. Olynyk should be able to fetch expiring salary plus SRPs. Chicago is better served by replacing Lonzo with a PG, but will be looking for something to take on Anthony's second year. I suggest a SRP would be preferred to Howard. Honestly, though, this seems easier as 2 trades - Wagner & 2 SRPs for Olynyk; and Anthony, Harris & 1 SRP for Lonzo.

ORL sends: Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, Moe Wagner, 3 SRPs
ORL gets: Kelly Olynyk, Lonzo Ball

CHI sends: Lonzo Ball, Talen Horton-Tucker
CHI gets: Gary Harris, Cole Anthony, 1 SRP, cash (via Toronto)

TOR sends: Kelly Olynyk, cash
TOR gets: Moe Wagner, Talen Horton-Tucker, 2 SRPs

islandboy53 wrote:This is your proposal. Below is an amended version I could support from Toronto's perspective.

Skybox wrote:ORL sends: Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, Jett Howard, Moe Wagner
ORL gets: Kelly Olynyk, Lonzo Ball

CHI sends: Lonzo Ball
CHI gets: Moe Wagner (buyout), Gary Harris(solid vet but TO/expiring/buyout/flip candidate), Jett Howard (21yo prospect)

TOR sends: Kelly Olynyk
TOR gets: Cole Anthony, 2 srps

Toronto doesn't need more back court players. Olynyk should be able to fetch expiring salary plus SRPs. Chicago is better served by replacing Lonzo with a PG, but will be looking for something to take on Anthony's second year. I suggest a SRP would be preferred to Howard. Honestly, though, this seems easier as 2 trades - Wagner & 2 SRPs for Olynyk; and Anthony, Harris & 1 SRP for Lonzo.

ORL sends: Cole Anthony, Gary Harris, Moe Wagner, 3 SRPs
ORL gets: Kelly Olynyk, Lonzo Ball

CHI sends: Lonzo Ball, Talen Horton-Tucker
CHI gets: Gary Harris, Cole Anthony, 1 SRP, cash (via Toronto)

TOR sends: Kelly Olynyk, cash
TOR gets: Moe Wagner, Talen Horton-Tucker, 2 SRPs

I like your version better for TOR

I'd like it even more if for TOR if Horton-Tucker wasn't coming to TOR because of Toronto's glut of SGs. I think ORL could absorb him (if they assign any value to him) and the salary numbers would still work

Ehh, I’m open to moving Mo’s expiring but this isn’t a trade that’s going to justify bad optics and a potential disgruntled Franz.

Lonzo is likely bought out and as much as I’m okay with trading Jett this seems like too much.

I would cut Chicago and just deal with Toronto directly, Harris/Houstan/seconds should suffice.

Toronto should prefer running their 2nd round pick guard over paying Cole. The salaries are neutral in the swap, but the position/talent is not. And I don’t think two seconds is enough there.

I think you do Howard and Cole to Toronto and Harris and Cojo to Chicago and send however many seconds to Chicago. Orlando has the tax space to do that and fill the bench back up.

jayjaysee wrote:Toronto should prefer running their 2nd round pick guard over paying Cole. The salaries are neutral in the swap, but the position/talent is not. And I don’t think two seconds is enough there.

I think you do Howard and Cole to Toronto and Harris and Cojo to Chicago and send however many seconds to Chicago. Orlando has the tax space to do that and fill the bench back up.

we dont have room for Howard. Minutes at the sg/sf is already soaked up between Barrett/Dick/Agbaji/Walter

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Ehh, I’m open to moving Mo’s expiring but this isn’t a trade that’s going to justify bad optics and a potential disgruntled Franz.

Lonzo is likely bought out and as much as I’m okay with trading Jett this seems like too much.

I would cut Chicago and just deal with Toronto directly, Harris/Houstan/seconds should suffice.

There is no chance in the world that any trade with Moe doesn't have Franz signature on it.

Ducklett wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Ehh, I’m open to moving Mo’s expiring but this isn’t a trade that’s going to justify bad optics and a potential disgruntled Franz.

Lonzo is likely bought out and as much as I’m okay with trading Jett this seems like too much.

I would cut Chicago and just deal with Toronto directly, Harris/Houstan/seconds should suffice.

There is no chance in the world that any trade with Moe doesn't have Franz signature on it.

This is so overplayed...this isn't the league at the Y. Hire Moe to drive the ORL bus while he's rehabbing if you have to. Seriously, this is the NBA.

Skybox wrote:

Ducklett wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Ehh, I’m open to moving Mo’s expiring but this isn’t a trade that’s going to justify bad optics and a potential disgruntled Franz.

Lonzo is likely bought out and as much as I’m okay with trading Jett this seems like too much.

I would cut Chicago and just deal with Toronto directly, Harris/Houstan/seconds should suffice.

There is no chance in the world that any trade with Moe doesn't have Franz signature on it.

This is so overplayed...this isn't the league at the Y. Hire Moe to drive the ORL bus while he's rehabbing if you have to. Seriously, this is the NBA.

I am not sure why you would want to put that amount of lower body pressure on Moe while he is recovering from an ACL...

While it is overplayed, front offices normally speak to their star player about big changes, and making sure Franz knows what is going on and getting his temperature to such a move seems like the bare minimum.

Ducklett wrote:

Skybox wrote:

Ducklett wrote:
There is no chance in the world that any trade with Moe doesn't have Franz signature on it.

This is so overplayed...this isn't the league at the Y. Hire Moe to drive the ORL bus while he's rehabbing if you have to. Seriously, this is the NBA.

I am not sure why you would want to put that amount of lower body pressure on Moe while he is recovering from an ACL...

While it is overplayed, front offices normally speak to their star player about big changes, and making sure Franz knows what is going on and getting his temperature to such a move seems like the bare minimum.

Yes...I didn't actually mean to disagree with you...it would be discussed with Franz, Moe, and the other team's GM to make sure all were on the same page. I only dismiss the concept that's thrown around about "what if Franz gets mad?" as in, nothing can ever be done with Moe - he's untouchable and must be overpaid, even if he's out for a year.

ChettheJet wrote:Maybe you should watch a Bulls game. Ball is rounding into what he used to be which was a difference maker for CHI. Last night limited to 26 minutes, scored 4 points, was a +25 in an OT win for those of you who watch those numbers. The Bulls as a franchise doesn't trade for player to buyout. They 10X better off playing Lonzo, who they don't see as just a $20M trading chip.

Am I reading this right? Your "difference maker" scored 4 points in 26 minutes?

Skybox wrote:

Ducklett wrote:

Skybox wrote:
This is so overplayed...this isn't the league at the Y. Hire Moe to drive the ORL bus while he's rehabbing if you have to. Seriously, this is the NBA.

I am not sure why you would want to put that amount of lower body pressure on Moe while he is recovering from an ACL...

While it is overplayed, front offices normally speak to their star player about big changes, and making sure Franz knows what is going on and getting his temperature to such a move seems like the bare minimum.

Yes...I didn't actually mean to disagree with you...it would be discussed with Franz, Moe, and the other team's GM to make sure all were on the same page. I only dismiss the concept that's thrown around about "what if Franz gets mad?" as in, nothing can ever be done with Moe - he's untouchable and must be overpaid, even if he's out for a year.

moe has never been overpaid