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So this trade starts with a question: What is Quentin Grimes market as a free agent this summer? If its less than full MLE, then Dallas probably should pass on this and just be prepared to match on Grimes. But if he's MLE or more then...

Kleber
Grimes

for

Grayson Allen

Mavs do this because Allen is the best player in the trade. And avoid any uncertainty around Grimes' contract. They do lose Maxi, but I'm optimistic about a buyout guy filling that spot. Gains Dallas a little apron wiggle room next season as well.

The Suns do this because Grimes can fill the Allen role almost as well plus they get a versatile big who would step in and play half the game immediately. Ishbia won't care about having to give Grimes a contract similar to Allen(if it comes to that) while paying Kleber another year. And might like having the tradable salary of Kleber this summer.

Seems rough for the Suns value wise. Think deal needs to be Gafford based, not kleber

Godaddycurse wrote:Seems rough for the Suns value wise. Think deal needs to be Gafford based, not kleber

Then Dallas takes Grimes out obviously. They would need to swap him for a rookie contract center to replace Gafford. Not just throw him in.

I would agree on paper trade value it favors Dallas. But on the court for the Suns their team gets better. And this presumes of course they aren't needing to sell Allen for value to flip for Butler.

I'd add the 2 2nds next year also if it hets it done.

This is a tough one, though I disagree with godad that its really rough for PHX. Im high on Grimes so maybe thats part of it, but I feel like this is fair as is. I do like the idea of the 3 Dukies Irving, Lively, and Allen, actually think Grayson should start over Klay

daoneandonly wrote:This is a tough one, though I disagree with godad that its really rough for PHX. Im high on Grimes so maybe thats part of it, but I feel like this is fair as is. I do like the idea of the 3 Dukies Irving, Lively, and Allen, actually think Grayson should start over Klay

Grayson > Grimes on court. Much more reliable as a shooter. OP has Phoenix downgrading on the wing to add depth at forward whose an offensive black hole. I dont think it makes them meaningfully better

Godaddycurse wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:This is a tough one, though I disagree with godad that its really rough for PHX. Im high on Grimes so maybe thats part of it, but I feel like this is fair as is. I do like the idea of the 3 Dukies Irving, Lively, and Allen, actually think Grayson should start over Klay

Grayson > Grimes on court. Much more reliable as a shooter. OP has Phoenix downgrading on the wing to add depth at forward whose an offensive black hole. I dont think it makes them meaningfully better

But to me Grimes is still improving and he's significantly younger. Frayson is what he is. I also dont think he's going to get a contract as big as Grayson, so PHX wins there. Maxi, with all his warts, fills a much needed position of need for them as well.

daoneandonly wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:This is a tough one, though I disagree with godad that its really rough for PHX. Im high on Grimes so maybe thats part of it, but I feel like this is fair as is. I do like the idea of the 3 Dukies Irving, Lively, and Allen, actually think Grayson should start over Klay

Grayson > Grimes on court. Much more reliable as a shooter. OP has Phoenix downgrading on the wing to add depth at forward whose an offensive black hole. I dont think it makes them meaningfully better

But to me Grimes is still improving and he's significantly younger. Frayson is what he is. I also dont think he's going to get a contract as big as Grayson, so PHX wins there. Maxi, with all his warts, fills a much needed position of need for them as well.

Their window is this and next year. Its unlikely grimes reach Grayson's level and if he does it wont be in time. They can get someone of klebers level elsewhere with okogies expiring

I'd take Grimes over Allen this year and going forward - he is a better defender, and has a mkre versatile offensive game with room to grow, as he has shown already.

Yes, Mavs title window with Kyrie is next two years or so, but they have to keep their mind of years after that too, and making a side move at best now (actually makes them worse this year too imo) while losing a potential long term piece, just doesn't make sense to me, especially since Allen is not on some bargain contract.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Seems rough for the Suns value wise. Think deal needs to be Gafford based, not kleber

Then Dallas takes Grimes out obviously. They would need to swap him for a rookie contract center to replace Gafford. Not just throw him in.

I would agree on paper trade value it favors Dallas. But on the court for the Suns their team gets better. And this presumes of course they aren't needing to sell Allen for value to flip for Butler.

I feel like I would be a hard pass on Gafford for Allen from Dallas' perspective, even if they had a deal lined up to flip Grimes for a replacement C. Conversely, that feels like a godsend for Phoenix (which makes me think they need to add).

gswhoops wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Seems rough for the Suns value wise. Think deal needs to be Gafford based, not kleber

Then Dallas takes Grimes out obviously. They would need to swap him for a rookie contract center to replace Gafford. Not just throw him in.

I would agree on paper trade value it favors Dallas. But on the court for the Suns their team gets better. And this presumes of course they aren't needing to sell Allen for value to flip for Butler.

I feel like I would be a hard pass on Gafford for Allen from Dallas' perspective, even if they had a deal lined up to flip Grimes for a replacement C. Conversely, that feels like a godsend for Phoenix (which makes me think they need to add).

Yeah both teams feel like they would be better served with Gafford than Allen. The only reason I would consider it is because I think Allen is a better player overall than Gafford and if I felt like I could backfill backup center somehow I would take the upgrade.

Of course if I couldn't move Klay(unlikely) or Grimes in that deal then Dallas is pretty overcrowded there. But I wonder if I overrate Allen.

Texas Chuck wrote:So this trade starts with a question: What is Quentin Grimes market as a free agent this summer? If its less than full MLE, then Dallas probably should pass on this and just be prepared to match on Grimes. But if he's MLE or more then...

Kleber
Grimes

for

Grayson Allen

Mavs do this because Allen is the best player in the trade. And avoid any uncertainty around Grimes' contract. They do lose Maxi, but I'm optimistic about a buyout guy filling that spot. Gains Dallas a little apron wiggle room next season as well.

The Suns do this because Grimes can fill the Allen role almost as well plus they get a versatile big who would step in and play half the game immediately. Ishbia won't care about having to give Grimes a contract similar to Allen(if it comes to that) while paying Kleber another year. And might like having the tradable salary of Kleber this summer.

I like the proposal though I'm high on Grimes and think his new contract would be smaller than Allen's. But I'd be more confident in finding a PG in the buyout market and trading Exum for Maxi's replacement

daoneandonly wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:This is a tough one, though I disagree with godad that its really rough for PHX. Im high on Grimes so maybe thats part of it, but I feel like this is fair as is. I do like the idea of the 3 Dukies Irving, Lively, and Allen, actually think Grayson should start over Klay

Grayson > Grimes on court. Much more reliable as a shooter. OP has Phoenix downgrading on the wing to add depth at forward whose an offensive black hole. I dont think it makes them meaningfully better

But to me Grimes is still improving and he's significantly younger. Frayson is what he is. I also dont think he's going to get a contract as big as Grayson, so PHX wins there. Maxi, with all his warts, fills a much needed position of need for them as well.

Suns need a defensive center. They would much rather have Gafford and give more. Theoretically, Nurk and Gafford could be aded (obviously the value becomes skewed).

For me - As much as I think Grimes is the best player in the deal, it feels a lot like moving deck chairs. Maxi does nothing. Grimes is good, but he will play real defense and not do anything dirty (I could see how this could be a downside).
If he is dealt again, that means he was traded NY to DET, DET to DAL and then DAL to XX all in one year. That's insane.