Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? Updated Brogdon to Heat

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Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? Updated Brogdon to Heat 

Post#1 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:41 pm

Heat +8.4 / 13 roster players
*G. Allen
Christie
Dunn
Hachimura
*Vincent
*2025-28 Blazers 1st via Bulls

Heat send Butler where the Suns agree to extend him. Heat get 4 rotation players (Allen, Christie, Dunn, Rui) for Butler. Add a prospect in Christie plus pick for consolidation upgrade.

Suns +3.2 M / 15 roster players
Butler
Vanderbilt
J. Carter
Larson
K. Johnson

Suns turn G. Allen, Dunn, 2031 1st into Butler on an extension. They unload bad money (Beal) but also take on bad money (Vanderbilt, J. Carter).

Lakers +2.8 M / 13 roster players 2 spots
LaVine
Bol Bol

Lakers add #3 option who starred in Los Angeles with UCLA, surrender Christie in order to unload Vanderbilt and Vincent. And Rui, some might argue?

Bulls -3.7 M / 15 roster players
Beal
Richardson
2031 Suns unprotected 1st

Bulls turn LaVine into Beal, which is a downgrade, but they reduce injury risk and upgrade a fake 1st to an unprotected 1st that can be used for upgrades in future trades. They also unload J. Carter.

*Expanded trade:

G. Allen, Vincent + Blazers 1st for Malcom Brogdon to the Heat.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Rui / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#2 » by jayjaysee » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:03 pm

The Suns can take one of Vando/Vincent back, but not both. Allen matches either one, Okogie matches Carter...

No idea about the other tax/apron issues. But that one stands out.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#3 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:05 pm

The trade is illegal. The Suns are a second apron team and cannot aggregate salary. Second of all, Grayson Allen's salary goes on two years longer than it should and he's not really needed when we last have Robinson. Loop in Denver, trade him for salary filler and their first, and call it a year. Fix those issues and I'd do the trade for Miami, even though a lot of your rationale doesn't make sense. How many guys can play in a rotation? Lol! We're going to keep playing Herro, Jacquez, Robinson, Highsmith, and Jovic. Dunn is the only one I see breaking through into the rotation. And I would see him as the starter.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#4 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:15 pm

jayjaysee wrote:The Suns can take one of Vando/Vincent back, but not both. Allen matches either one, Okogie matches Carter...

No idea about the other tax/apron issues. But that one stands out.



Can be fixed if I reverse Okogie and send Vincent to the Heat plus send K. Johnson to fill the last available roster spot on the Suns. So he would not be cut.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#5 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:19 pm

BBallFreak wrote:The trade is illegal. The Suns are a second apron team and cannot aggregate salary. Second of all, Grayson Allen's salary goes on two years longer than it should and he's not really needed when we last have Robinson. Loop in Denver, trade him for salary filler and their first, and call it a year. Fix those issues and I'd do the trade for Miami, even though a lot of your rationale doesn't make sense. How many guys can play in a rotation? Lol! We're going to keep playing Herro, Jacquez, Robinson, Highsmith, and Jovic. Dunn is the only one I see breaking through into the rotation. And I would see him as the starter.


You don't consider Max Christie a rotation player on the Heat?
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#6 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:28 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:The trade is illegal. The Suns are a second apron team and cannot aggregate salary. Second of all, Grayson Allen's salary goes on two years longer than it should and he's not really needed when we last have Robinson. Loop in Denver, trade him for salary filler and their first, and call it a year. Fix those issues and I'd do the trade for Miami, even though a lot of your rationale doesn't make sense. How many guys can play in a rotation? Lol! We're going to keep playing Herro, Jacquez, Robinson, Highsmith, and Jovic. Dunn is the only one I see breaking through into the rotation. And I would see him as the starter.


You don't consider Max Christie a rotation player on the Heat?

At shooting guard we have Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson. At small forward we'd have Jaime Jacquez and Haywood Highsmith, and that's assuming we flip Grayson Allen. Highsmith is a 3&D role player who is absolutely needed, so I don't see where he's going to play regular minutes. I'd be looking to package him with Hachimura and one or two of those picks (the one you sent us and the one we get from flipping Allen) for a starting point guard.

Pg: new guy / Rozier
Sg: Herro / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith
Pf: Dunn/ Jovic
Cc: Adebayo / Ware
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#7 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:31 pm

Any takers in a 2-1 for Grayson Allen?

Lakers have 2 open roster spots and the trade still works if I send Kevin Love to Los Angeles.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#8 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:44 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
Pg: new guy / Rozier
Sg: Herro / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith
Pf: Dunn/ Jovic
Cc: Adebayo / Ware


Pg: Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic / Highsmith
C: Bam / Ware / Jovic

I edited the deal because the Suns get flagged for aggregation if they send you Okogie. I sent K. Johnson into the open Suns roster spot so you don't have to cut him.

You're getting Vincent in order to remove the flag on aggregation. I guess he can serve as bench PG and Rozier remains PG. Burks is also a decent ballhandler for a bench.

I'd say Christie pushes Duncan down in the rotation. Max is a valuable longterm piece and D. Robinson is expiring salary you can use next season with the Blazers pick.

I also sent Love to Los Angeles to open a 2-for-1 trade using G. Allen. But you are running out of roster spots. You'd have to find a 1-for-1 deal.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#9 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:50 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
Pg: new guy / Rozier
Sg: Herro / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith
Pf: Dunn/ Jovic
Cc: Adebayo / Ware


Pg: Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic / Highsmith
C: Bam / Ware / Jovic

I edited the deal because the Suns get flagged for aggregation if they send you Okogie. I sent K. Johnson into the open Suns roster spot so you don't have to cut him.

You're getting Vincent in order to remove the flag on aggregation. I guess he can serve as bench PG and Rozier remains PG. Burks is also a decent ballhandler for a bench.

I'd say Christie pushes Duncan down in the rotation. Max is a valuable longterm piece and D. Robinson is expiring salary you can use next season with the Blazers pick.

I also sent Love to Los Angeles to open a 2-for-1 trade using G. Allen. But you are running out of roster spots. You'd have to find a 1-for-1 deal.


Perhaps the Pistons would take G. Allen plus Burks for Sasser to give you a PG2? Cap becomes +21.9 million for the Heat plus tax savings, leaving the Heat 6.2 below the cap.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#10 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jan 14, 2025 3:56 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
Pg: new guy / Rozier
Sg: Herro / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith
Pf: Dunn/ Jovic
Cc: Adebayo / Ware


Pg: Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic / Highsmith
C: Bam / Ware / Jovic

I edited the deal because the Suns get flagged for aggregation if they send you Okogie. I sent K. Johnson into the open Suns roster spot so you don't have to cut him.

You're getting Vincent in order to remove the flag on aggregation. I guess he can serve as bench PG and Rozier remains PG. Burks is also a decent ballhandler for a bench.

I'd say Christie pushes Duncan down in the rotation. Max is a valuable longterm piece and D. Robinson is expiring salary you can use next season with the Blazers pick.

I also sent Love to Los Angeles to open a 2-for-1 trade using G. Allen. But you are running out of roster spots. You'd have to find a 1-for-1 deal.

You're not showing me where Rui goes or where Allen goes. That's the bulk of the salary. Don't you think knowing that is kind of important?
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#11 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:03 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
Pg: new guy / Rozier
Sg: Herro / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith
Pf: Dunn/ Jovic
Cc: Adebayo / Ware


Pg: Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic / Highsmith
C: Bam / Ware / Jovic

I edited the deal because the Suns get flagged for aggregation if they send you Okogie. I sent K. Johnson into the open Suns roster spot so you don't have to cut him.

You're getting Vincent in order to remove the flag on aggregation. I guess he can serve as bench PG and Rozier remains PG. Burks is also a decent ballhandler for a bench.

I'd say Christie pushes Duncan down in the rotation. Max is a valuable longterm piece and D. Robinson is expiring salary you can use next season with the Blazers pick.

I also sent Love to Los Angeles to open a 2-for-1 trade using G. Allen. But you are running out of roster spots. You'd have to find a 1-for-1 deal.

You're not showing me where Rui goes or where Allen goes. That's the bulk of the salary. Don't you think knowing that is kind of important?


Don't you think breaking down a 50 million dollar salary is going to result in a scarcity of roster spaces?

And don't you think it's impossible to break down Rui and Allen into smaller contracts?

And don't you think having too much depth is better than having a thin roster like the Sixers?

I think this is a good problem to have. And I've suggested the Pistons as a landing spot for Allen.

You can't wait to move Rui plus D. Robinson as expiring contracts until next year?

What is the **** rush, dude?
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#12 » by ChettheJet » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:10 pm

In what world do the Bulls look at their 2031 rebuild and say, yeah we might have made a mistake of getting Beal's even more massive contract in exchange for Laivne's huge contract 6 years ago. Does anybody in this office remember who the VP/GM's were back then?
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#13 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:10 pm

Would the Wizards be willing to trade Malcom Brogdon for G. Allen plus Gabe Vincent plus Blazers 1st?

Heat get 8.4 million cap savings plus tax.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Rui / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#14 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:14 pm

ChettheJet wrote:In what world do the Bulls look at their 2031 rebuild and say, yeah we might have made a mistake of getting Beal's even more massive contract in exchange for Laivne's huge contract 6 years ago. Does anybody in this office remember who the VP/GM's were back then?


Or the Bulls could cash in and trade that 2031 Suns first next year. Why project agony 6 years from now? It's a better asset than the fake Blazers 1st. And LaVine has a checkered injury history.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#15 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:51 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Pg: Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Christie / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic / Highsmith
C: Bam / Ware / Jovic

I edited the deal because the Suns get flagged for aggregation if they send you Okogie. I sent K. Johnson into the open Suns roster spot so you don't have to cut him.

You're getting Vincent in order to remove the flag on aggregation. I guess he can serve as bench PG and Rozier remains PG. Burks is also a decent ballhandler for a bench.

I'd say Christie pushes Duncan down in the rotation. Max is a valuable longterm piece and D. Robinson is expiring salary you can use next season with the Blazers pick.

I also sent Love to Los Angeles to open a 2-for-1 trade using G. Allen. But you are running out of roster spots. You'd have to find a 1-for-1 deal.

You're not showing me where Rui goes or where Allen goes. That's the bulk of the salary. Don't you think knowing that is kind of important?


Don't you think breaking down a 50 million dollar salary is going to result in a scarcity of roster spaces?

And don't you think it's impossible to break down Rui and Allen into smaller contracts?

And don't you think having too much depth is better than having a thin roster like the Sixers?

I think this is a good problem to have. And I've suggested the Pistons as a landing spot for Allen.

You can't wait to move Rui plus D. Robinson as expiring contracts until next year?

What is the **** rush, dude?

No, I can't wait until next year. Injuries and decline are both a thing. Trading players while they have value is important.

See Butler, Jimmy!

Trading Allen, Rui, Christie, and whatever else we have to to get a point guard and actually put ourselves in a position to compete seems like a rational direction to go in, especially when none of those players are needed on the roster. Why wouldn't we move on from the redundancies and make ourselves as strong as possible? With this trade and a trade of Allen for expiring contracts and a first rounder, we could trade up to three first round picks! Adding in Rui, Christie, and Vincent or Rozier should be able to get us a pretty good player, don't you think?
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#16 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:03 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:You're not showing me where Rui goes or where Allen goes. That's the bulk of the salary. Don't you think knowing that is kind of important?


Don't you think breaking down a 50 million dollar salary is going to result in a scarcity of roster spaces?

And don't you think it's impossible to break down Rui and Allen into smaller contracts?

And don't you think having too much depth is better than having a thin roster like the Sixers?

I think this is a good problem to have. And I've suggested the Pistons as a landing spot for Allen.

You can't wait to move Rui plus D. Robinson as expiring contracts until next year?

What is the **** rush, dude?

No, I can't wait until next year. Injuries and decline are both a thing. Trading players while they have value is important.

See Butler, Jimmy!

Trading Allen, Rui, Christie, and whatever else we have to to get a point guard and actually put ourselves in a position to compete seems like a rational direction to go in, especially when none of those players are needed on the roster. Why wouldn't we move on from the redundancies and make ourselves as strong as possible? With this trade and a trade of Allen for expiring contracts and a first rounder, we could trade up to three first round picks! Adding in Rui, Christie, and Vincent or Rozier should be able to get us a pretty good player, don't you think?


I routed Vincent & Allen plus Blazers 1st for Brogdon. Rui + Christie also works for Brogdon, no pick added.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Allen / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware

Next year Ducan & Vincent are expirings that can be sent with the Blazers 1st plus 3 Heat 1st given the 2025 Heat 1st owed the Thunder conveys.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#17 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:07 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Don't you think breaking down a 50 million dollar salary is going to result in a scarcity of roster spaces?

And don't you think it's impossible to break down Rui and Allen into smaller contracts?

And don't you think having too much depth is better than having a thin roster like the Sixers?

I think this is a good problem to have. And I've suggested the Pistons as a landing spot for Allen.

You can't wait to move Rui plus D. Robinson as expiring contracts until next year?

What is the **** rush, dude?

No, I can't wait until next year. Injuries and decline are both a thing. Trading players while they have value is important.

See Butler, Jimmy!

Trading Allen, Rui, Christie, and whatever else we have to to get a point guard and actually put ourselves in a position to compete seems like a rational direction to go in, especially when none of those players are needed on the roster. Why wouldn't we move on from the redundancies and make ourselves as strong as possible? With this trade and a trade of Allen for expiring contracts and a first rounder, we could trade up to three first round picks! Adding in Rui, Christie, and Vincent or Rozier should be able to get us a pretty good player, don't you think?


I routed Vincent & Allen plus Blazers 1st for Brogdon. Rui + Christie also works for Brogdon, no pick added.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Allen / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware

Next year Ducan & Vincent are expirings that can be sent with the Blazers 1st plus 3 Heat 1st given the 2025 Heat 1st owed the Thunder conveys.

Pass on Brogdan, especially if a first is involved.

Look, their was a thread awhile ago that sent Allen to Denver for a first and salary filler. It was generally agreed upon as good value for both teams. That's what I'd do! That first, along with the one you sent us, and our own 2031 pick, gets us a pretty damned good player. Rui, Vincent, Christie, Rozier.... Whatever Denver sends... In varying combinations could probably land us a good point guard. Why is that such a terrible thing?
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#18 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:10 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Don't you think breaking down a 50 million dollar salary is going to result in a scarcity of roster spaces?

And don't you think it's impossible to break down Rui and Allen into smaller contracts?

And don't you think having too much depth is better than having a thin roster like the Sixers?

I think this is a good problem to have. And I've suggested the Pistons as a landing spot for Allen.

You can't wait to move Rui plus D. Robinson as expiring contracts until next year?

What is the **** rush, dude?

No, I can't wait until next year. Injuries and decline are both a thing. Trading players while they have value is important.

See Butler, Jimmy!

Trading Allen, Rui, Christie, and whatever else we have to to get a point guard and actually put ourselves in a position to compete seems like a rational direction to go in, especially when none of those players are needed on the roster. Why wouldn't we move on from the redundancies and make ourselves as strong as possible? With this trade and a trade of Allen for expiring contracts and a first rounder, we could trade up to three first round picks! Adding in Rui, Christie, and Vincent or Rozier should be able to get us a pretty good player, don't you think?


I routed Vincent & Allen plus Blazers 1st for Brogdon. Rui + Christie also works for Brogdon, no pick added.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Allen / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware

Next year Duncan & Vincent are expirings that can be sent with the Blazers 1st plus 3 Heat 1st given the 2025 Heat 1st owed the Thunder conveys.


If you go the Allen + Vincent route (Keep Rui & Christie) and lose the Blazers 1st, I'd be willing to return the Heat 1st owed Charlotte for Christie + Jovic. That gives the Heat all 4 Heat 1sts available to attach to Rui + Robinson + Rozier expirings coming off a playoff run with Brogdon backed by Terry. That easily puts the Heat in position to add your starting PG of choice.

Best available now given your situation and resources is Brogdon.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#19 » by BBallFreak » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:13 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:No, I can't wait until next year. Injuries and decline are both a thing. Trading players while they have value is important.

See Butler, Jimmy!

Trading Allen, Rui, Christie, and whatever else we have to to get a point guard and actually put ourselves in a position to compete seems like a rational direction to go in, especially when none of those players are needed on the roster. Why wouldn't we move on from the redundancies and make ourselves as strong as possible? With this trade and a trade of Allen for expiring contracts and a first rounder, we could trade up to three first round picks! Adding in Rui, Christie, and Vincent or Rozier should be able to get us a pretty good player, don't you think?


I routed Vincent & Allen plus Blazers 1st for Brogdon. Rui + Christie also works for Brogdon, no pick added.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Allen / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware

Next year Duncan & Vincent are expirings that can be sent with the Blazers 1st plus 3 Heat 1st given the 2025 Heat 1st owed the Thunder conveys.


If you go the Allen + Vincent route (Keep Rui & Christie) and lose the Blazers 1st, I'd be willing to return the Heat 1st owed Charlotte for Christie + Jovic. That gives the Heat all 4 Heat 1sts available to attach to Rui + Robinson + Rozier expirings coming off a playoff run with Brogdon backed by Terry. That easily puts the Heat in position to add your starting PG of choice.

Best available now given your situation and resources is Brogdon.

No, man. I don't accept that.
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Re: Butler - Beal - LaVine - Is it possible? 

Post#20 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:35 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
I routed Vincent & Allen plus Blazers 1st for Brogdon. Rui + Christie also works for Brogdon, no pick added.

Pg: Brogdon / Rozier / Burks / Vincent
Sg: Herro / Allen / Robinson
Sf: Jacquez / Highsmith / Robinson
Pf: Dunn / Jovic
C: Bam / Jovic / Ware

Next year Duncan & Vincent are expirings that can be sent with the Blazers 1st plus 3 Heat 1st given the 2025 Heat 1st owed the Thunder conveys.


If you go the Allen + Vincent route (Keep Rui & Christie) and lose the Blazers 1st, I'd be willing to return the Heat 1st owed Charlotte for Christie + Jovic. That gives the Heat all 4 Heat 1sts available to attach to Rui + Robinson + Rozier expirings coming off a playoff run with Brogdon backed by Terry. That easily puts the Heat in position to add your starting PG of choice.

Best available now given your situation and resources is Brogdon.

No, man. I don't accept that.


I'd love to see you or someone else beat this deal as is in the OP.

The size of Butler's contract narrows the starting point of target teams down to a lone few. So the options for players available are limited, severely. Miami is not in a good spot here to just reshape the roster in one deadline for a championship run, and Heat fans are in denial about this.

This remains a playoff team after this deal.
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