D.Murray availability, value, offers

[Astaluego]

Could it be available NOP? What trade would make sense? I think he would fit very well in some contenders (Wolves/Magic/Lakers etc) so tell us your ideas

[dcstanley]

Rui, Vincent, Knecht, 2028 LAL Swap, 2029 LAL FRP for Murray and Green

[Magic_Johnny12]

Orlando wouldn’t be interested but I do appreciate you considering Orlando contenders haha.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t think NOP is going for a full rebuild. Just expect Ingram and CJM to be readily available. Zion/Herb/Trey/DJM feels like they should be given another year. With one of CJM and Ingram, the 2025 first, and an MLE-ish center..

If they do decide to blow it up, I think he still calls for two firsts with a bit of variance. Or lesser firsts and a lesser prospect?

[winforlose]

I don’t think NOP is going for a full rebuild. Just expect Ingram and CJM to be readily available. Zion/Herb/Trey/DJM feels like they should be given another year. With one of CJM and Ingram, the 2025 first, and an MLE-ish center..

If they do decide to blow it up, I think he still calls for two firsts with a bit of variance. Or lesser firsts and a lesser prospect?

Murray has a nice contract, but if you let another year go by I think that definitely undermines his value.

[Skybox]

I would have loved to grab him for Orl but it's tougher to conceive now with KCP in the starting lineup and making $22m. I'm guessing KCP, at his age and being strictly 3&D, wouldn't really appeal to NOLA, even though he's a really good player. I don't see Murray being amenable to a second unit spot and it would be tough to justify financially anyway.

I could still see CJ in a 6MOY role in ORL though...leading the second unit, but playing starter minutes off the bench- often the best player on the floor and leading scorer, but not expected to carry the team.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t think NOP is going for a full rebuild. Just expect Ingram and CJM to be readily available. Zion/Herb/Trey/DJM feels like they should be given another year. With one of CJM and Ingram, the 2025 first, and an MLE-ish center..

If they do decide to blow it up, I think he still calls for two firsts with a bit of variance. Or lesser firsts and a lesser prospect?

Murray has a nice contract, but if you let another year go by I think that definitely undermines his value.

Yeah of course. But if you’re keeping Zion because…he’s a top 8 player when he weighs 270 (or whatever) then you have to be willing to keep Murray and lose some of his potential trade value. Just think it’s really hard to give up when you’re as young and close as NOP was last season.

Murray, Trey, Herb, Zion is a really nice fitting group to start next season with. 30games in and Zion is out and another losing record. That’s when you shift to tank. Trade Murray, Herb and Zion. Still have the 2025 rookie and Missi/Hawkins/Trey. Maybe the tank ends in 2026 with a strong asset base.

[winforlose]

I don’t think NOP is going for a full rebuild. Just expect Ingram and CJM to be readily available. Zion/Herb/Trey/DJM feels like they should be given another year. With one of CJM and Ingram, the 2025 first, and an MLE-ish center..

If they do decide to blow it up, I think he still calls for two firsts with a bit of variance. Or lesser firsts and a lesser prospect?

Murray has a nice contract, but if you let another year go by I think that definitely undermines his value.

Yeah of course. But if you’re keeping Zion because…he’s a top 8 player when he weighs 270 (or whatever) then you have to be willing to keep Murray and lose some of his potential trade value. Just think it’s really hard to give up when you’re as young and close as NOP was last season.

Murray, Trey, Herb, Zion is a really nice fitting group to start next season with. 30games in and Zion is out and another losing record. That’s when you shift to tank. Trade Murray, Herb and Zion. Still have the 2025 rookie and Missi/Hawkins/Trey. Maybe the tank ends in 2026 with a strong asset base.

I think any lineup with Zion is a lineup that is doomed. Real GM just put a story a few days ago saying Zion wants out of NOLA. Even if he did want to be there, the stakes they are gambling with is another lost season. Yes they lead to good draft picks, but those picks then require play time and can trap you in the not good enough for a play in but not bad enough for high lottery odds middle ground. If you are moving on from BI and CJM, then I think you need to consider moving on from Zion as well.

[shrink]

Could it be available NOP? What trade would make sense? I think he would fit very well in some contenders (Wolves/Magic/Lakers etc) so tell us your ideas

You’re right, DeJounte Murray would be a fit really well on the court for the Timberwolves. MIN is over the second apron, so to fit his $29.5 mil salary in, Randle would have to go out. But after that, it gets complicated.

1. MIN doesn’t have a lot of other compensation they can add to Randle.
2. If Randle goes out, they can promote Naz to starting PF, but they have no back up center, and McDaniels (SF) is only back up PF.
3. MIN could use a starting PG in front of Conley, but they have used those minutes for useful players in NAW and DiVincenzo (starter)
4. Next season, Randle may opt out of his $31, and create space for Naz and help MIN get under the second apron. Murray’s additional money ($31.6, $33.6, $31.6 po) isn’t a bad deal, but it’s difficult additional payroll for MIN.

I think if Tim Connelly made an offer, it would be Randle and NAW (even less time for him) to a third team. But they’d definitely need a utility PF/C in the deal that could play rotation minutes this season.

[jayjaysee]

Real GM just put a story a few days ago saying Zion wants out of NOLA.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I don’t trust First Take rants as a real news source without more to it.

Any lineup with Zion is doomed seems like a First Take hot take. NOP last season looked like they were about to be a contender and were young enough to stay that way for a long time. I wouldn’t blame them for pivoting to more shooting/defense around Zion and going at it again after a lost season.

But I don’t even want to say they won’t give up and trade Zion. Some in the organization have to be tired of the ups/downs/downs. Just I think you keep Murray if you are keeping Zion. So until you give up on Zion, you don’t give up on Murray? Which is what this thread is about.. Or of course, upgrade Murray to Fox if Sac chooses to move on from him..

[esvl]

to the Spurs for T.Jones and K.Johnson

[jbk1234]

to the Spurs for T.Jones and K.Johnson

Trading him for that would be the equivalent of admitting that the trade bringing Murray over from the Hawks was historically bad. Griffin's successor might do that, but he wouldn't.

[MasterIchiro]

Saw he's shooting very inefficiently, needs the ball, and has a big contract.

Yet his assist and rebound numbers look good and he knows how to defend.

I'd say his market is pretty narrow.

[winforlose]

Real GM just put a story a few days ago saying Zion wants out of NOLA.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I don’t trust First Take rants as a real news source without more to it.

Any lineup with Zion is doomed seems like a First Take hot take. NOP last season looked like they were about to be a contender and were young enough to stay that way for a long time. I wouldn’t blame them for pivoting to more shooting/defense around Zion and going at it again after a lost season.

But I don’t even want to say they won’t give up and trade Zion. Some in the organization have to be tired of the ups/downs/downs. Just I think you keep Murray if you are keeping Zion. So until you give up on Zion, you don’t give up on Murray? Which is what this thread is about.. Or of course, upgrade Murray to Fox if Sac chooses to move on from him..

I agree with the underlying message of your post that it depends on the direction of the Pels moving forward. Fire sale is different from soft tank, which is different from retool. If you’re trying to retool by moving CJM and BI then you probably keep him. But if you are also moving Zion, that is 3/5ths of your starting lineup, and that is getting more into the soft tank. If you also plan to move role players for picks you are getting into fire sale. My answer of course changes based on their goals. I just have doubts that Zion can stay healthy for a regular season, and that if he somehow does that means he can stay healthy for 4 playoff series.

[winforlose]

Could it be available NOP? What trade would make sense? I think he would fit very well in some contenders (Wolves/Magic/Lakers etc) so tell us your ideas

You’re right, DeJounte Murray would be a fit really well on the court for the Timberwolves. MIN is over the second apron, so to fit his $29.5 mil salary in, Randle would have to go out. But after that, it gets complicated.

1. MIN doesn’t have a lot of other compensation they can add to Randle.
2. If Randle goes out, they can promote Naz to starting PF, but they have no back up center, and McDaniels (SF) is only back up PF.
3. MIN could use a starting PG in front of Conley, but they have used those minutes for useful players in NAW and DiVincenzo (starter)
4. Next season, Randle may opt out of his $31, and create space for Naz and help MIN get under the second apron. Murray’s additional money ($31.6, $33.6, $31.6 po) isn’t a bad deal, but it’s difficult additional payroll for MIN.

I think if Tim Connelly made an offer, it would be Randle and NAW (even less time for him) to a third team. But they’d definitely need a utility PF/C in the deal that could play rotation minutes this season.

The Detroit pick would likely be required, and maybe the Utah 2nd to help the Pels save face. Shrink I know you are high on this draft class, but the Wolves are buried in prospects who need time to develop. Literally 1-5 with Dilly/Clark/TSJ/Minott/Miller. Drafting one or two players is not necessarily going to impact the next season or the season after.

Also the deal would likely not include NAW. NAW could be moved for an asset, but I suspect we sign a dirt cheap center castoff for backup C this year and then next year we sign Naz and NAW, with the intention of trading NAW for a cheap backup C if needed. Think of NAW as your MLE. We would be a tax team, but in theory under the 2nd apron.

[shrink]

The Detroit pick would likely be required, and maybe the Utah 2nd to help the Pels save face. Shrink I know you are high on this draft class, but the Wolves are buried in prospects who need time to develop. Literally 1-5 with Dilly/Clark/TSJ/Minott/Miller. Drafting one or two players is not necessarily going to impact the next season or the season after.

I don’t want to drag this too far off topic, but there are general principles here that may create some value to other readers.

In general, draft picks are like new cars, and they lose value the moment you drive them off the lot. A pick has the opportunity to be many different players, but once the selection is made, that is an individual player, with specific strengths and weaknesses that may not fit another team. Moreover, as soon as the pick is made, the clock starts ticking in two ways. Other GMs want to see that a young player is so indispensable that he gets NBA time. The pick also starts the clock on four years of rookie scale, and finding cheap contributors is becoming critical in the new land of aprons and harsher lux percentages for higher spenders.

I understand that you like our young players, and to a lesser extent, I do too. Every fan loves the young players on their team, and I assume GMs are even more attached, since they actually chose them. However, for NBA-ready players that aren’t getting NBA court time, like Minott and Terrence Shannon, they are losing value every day. At a minimum, they are more valuable to other teams than us, that will play, evaluate, and develop them, and should be trade candidates.

Our current young players shouldn’t be a deterrent to adding more talent, particularly in a draft where a GM might find All Star talent anywhere in the top 20 picks. I feel MIN continues to need to add rookie talent at the start of rookie scale. At a minimum, it can create trade value later, since Tim Connelly is so good at scouting. I would not give up the DET pick (top 13 protected, currently #16) in this draft for a trade like this, particularly since it would create other roster issues that I listed earlier.

[winforlose]

The Detroit pick would likely be required, and maybe the Utah 2nd to help the Pels save face. Shrink I know you are high on this draft class, but the Wolves are buried in prospects who need time to develop. Literally 1-5 with Dilly/Clark/TSJ/Minott/Miller. Drafting one or two players is not necessarily going to impact the next season or the season after.

I don’t want to drag this too far off topic, but there are general principles here that may create some value to other readers.

In general, draft picks are like new cars, and they lose value the moment you drive them off the lot. A pick has the opportunity to be many different players, but once the selection is made, that is an individual player, with specific strengths and weaknesses that may not fit another team. Moreover, as soon as the pick is made, the clock starts ticking in two ways. Other owners want to see that a young player is so indispensable that he gets NBA time. The pick also starts the clock on four years of rookie scale, and finding cheap contributors is becoming critical in the new land of aprons and harsher lux percentages for higher spenders.

I understand that you like our young players, and to a lesser extent, I do too. Every fan loves the young players on their team, and I assume GMs are even more attached, since they actually chose them. However, for NBA-ready players that aren’t getting NBA court time, like Minott and Terrence Shannon, they are losing value every day. At a minimum, they are more valuable to other teams than us, that will play, evaluate, and develop them, and should be trade candidates.

Our current young players shouldn’t be a deterrent to adding more talent, particularly in a draft where a GM might find All Star talent anywhere in the top 20 picks. I feel MIN continues to need to add rookie talent at the start of rookie scale. At a minimum, it can create trade value later, since Tim Connelly is so good at scouting. I would not give up the DET pick (top 13 protected, currently #16) in this draft for a trade like this, particularly since it would create other roster issues that I listed earlier.

The counter argument is that unlike new cars players need time to develop and do better when developing chemistry with their teammates. Drafted players are not new shoes that you break in and they are optimal until they wear down. The guys I listed are further along in the process, and still struggling to get minutes. Just because we add someone new does not mean they are ready to be plugged in and that they will be given the minutes to develop.

[LarsV8]

I still can't figure out if DJ is actually good.

[Jon1798]

I think DJ is awesome. For those that aren’t aware, he had surgery on his left wrist and is playing through an elbow injury. He has a massive bonus that is dependent on him playing 65 games, so he’s playing through everything. On top of that, his mom had a stroke. And of course the Pels have had the apocalypse of all injury seasons.

Still he’s 18.2, 8.2, 7 and 2.5 steals per 36. His play has picked up the last five or so games and in particular when Zion plays.

[Jon1798]

Ps- no, I do not see him as available. He seems an ideal fit along side Herb, Trey, Zion and Missi, which is basically their core five. As was said, we will see on BI, CJ and where we fall in the lottery.