Wolves/Jazz/Magic

[winforlose]

I was asked by a board member to design a trade for Jaden that brings back a 2025 first. Even though it was a Wolves board challenge, I figured I would share the idea here.

This one is for Shrink because he called me no fun. He wanted to discuss a trade involving a 2025 draft pick.

Wolves out: Jaden McDaniels
Wolves in: Wolves 25 1st, Walker Kessler, Cole Anthony, protections on 29 first expanded from 1-5 to 1-10.

Utah in: Jaden McDaniels,
Utah out: Wolves 25 pick, expanded protection on 2029 first, Colin Sexton, Walker Kessler

Orlando out: Cole Anthony
Orlando in: Colin Sexton

Wolves probably move Cole Anthony or they trade NAW and keep Anthony.

Thoughts.

[Texas Chuck]

Orlando getting to upgrade for free is an interesting choice.

But more importantly McDaniels holds nowhere near this value. Not that you will hear this. But I'm going to keep saying it.

[winforlose]

Orlando getting to upgrade for free is an interesting choice.

But more importantly McDaniels holds nowhere near this value. Not that you will hear this. But I'm going to keep saying it.

Help refine the outgoing money to balance the trade. Again this was a challenge so it is rough. I am curious what Utah fans about Jaden’s value, but we will see.

[Texas Chuck]

Orlando getting to upgrade for free is an interesting choice.

But more importantly McDaniels holds nowhere near this value. Not that you will hear this. But I'm going to keep saying it.

Help refine the outgoing money to balance the trade. Again this was a challenge so it is rough. I am curious what Utah fans about Jaden’s value, but we will see.

Money isn't the issue. Value is. Sexton plus Kessler plus a first round pick plus ensuring a pick the Jazz own will never spit back a good pick is just way more than McDaniels is worth.

A problem made worse because Utah is still trying to find core players. A really good team in need of a wing defender would probably overpay for McDaniels(probably not this much value, but more than he's worth) because they already have their most important players. He does nothing to lift the floor of a bad team.

[schaffy]

So is Kessler involved or not? He's listed for MN incoming but not Utah outgoing...

[SkyHook]

So is Kessler involved or not? He's listed for MN incoming but not Utah outgoing...

Wolves out: Jaden McDaniels
Wolves in: Wolves 25 1st, Walker Kessler, Cole Anthony, protections on 29 first expanded from 1-5 to 1-10.

Utah in: Jaden McDaniels,
Utah out: Wolves 25 pick, expanded protection on 2029 first, Colin Sexton

Orlando out: Cole Anthony
Orlando in: Colin Sexton

Yeah, I was in from a Utah perspective until I saw that. I have an irrational love for McDaniels, but not at the expense of Kessler. An absolute non-starter.

[Bakomagic]

So is Kessler involved or not? He's listed for MN incoming but not Utah outgoing...

I hope he is; I told him to pack his bags while handing him a ticket. It's going to be really awkward for me if not.

[WinterSoldier]

I was asked by a board member to design a trade for Jaden that brings back a 2025 first. Even though it was a Wolves board challenge, I figured I would share the idea here.

This one is for Shrink because he called me no fun. He wanted to discuss a trade involving a 2025 draft pick.

Wolves out: Jaden McDaniels
Wolves in: Wolves 25 1st, Walker Kessler, Cole Anthony, protections on 29 first expanded from 1-5 to 1-10.

Utah in: Jaden McDaniels,
Utah out: Wolves 25 pick, expanded protection on 2029 first, Colin Sexton

Orlando out: Cole Anthony
Orlando in: Colin Sexton

Wolves probably move Cole Anthony or they trade NAW and keep Anthony.

Thoughts.

I personally don't have Daniels value as high as Kessler's alone. This doesn't feel like the right move for the Jazz to me. I see the Jazz trying to draft high the next three years then building a team.

[winforlose]

Orlando getting to upgrade for free is an interesting choice.

But more importantly McDaniels holds nowhere near this value. Not that you will hear this. But I'm going to keep saying it.

Help refine the outgoing money to balance the trade. Again this was a challenge so it is rough. I am curious what Utah fans about Jaden’s value, but we will see.

Money isn't the issue. Value is. Sexton plus Kessler plus a first round pick plus ensuring a pick the Jazz own will never spit back a good pick is just way more than McDaniels is worth.

A problem made worse because Utah is still trying to find core players. A really good team in need of a wing defender would probably overpay for McDaniels(probably not this much value, but more than he's worth) because they already have their most important players. He does nothing to lift the floor of a bad team.

Again we are having two parallel conversations. You are saying Utah is owed value and Orlando is getting too much, how do we balance that. What is the delta between Sexton and Anthony.

Regarding McDaniels, Utah is known for increasing players value and flipping them or keeping them. They could use McDaniels better than the Wolves in low stakes and move him for profit, or keep him and in two years with decent drafting they would be in better shape. Markkanen can play PF, Jaden at SF, Flip at C. Jaden is better for similar money than Sexton, and the Jazz can go the rockets route of a mix of vets and young players to build out from the bottom toward the middle.

[winforlose]

So is Kessler involved or not? He's listed for MN incoming but not Utah outgoing...

Yes, fixed in original post.

[schaffy]

No idea what Orlando is doing in this, its just weird.

No way Utah does that. Even if I dont think those draft picks will be great ones they just aren't in a position from a rebuilding perspective to sending out draft picks/adding more protections and a rookie deal contributor for well paid players who aren't really going to move the needle in the near term. McDaniels is a role player, a well paid one at that. He fits a role that can really help winning teams. But on a team still in the talent collection phase of building, he wouldn't have the same impact. Thats just a waste of assets for them that might get them 1 or 2 wins a year? Why?

[winforlose]

No idea what Orlando is doing in this, its just weird.

No way Utah does that. Even if I dont think those draft picks will be great ones they just aren't in a position from a rebuilding perspective to sending out draft picks/adding more protections and a rookie deal contributor for well paid players who aren't really going to move the needle in the near term. McDaniels is a role player, a well paid one at that. He fits a role that can really help winning teams. But on a team still in the talent collection phase of building, he wouldn't have the same impact. Thats just a waste of assets for them that might get them 1 or 2 wins a year? Why?

Orlando is in it for 2 reasons.

1. Money. Utah couldn’t afford it and I didn’t like any of the options involved in a 1-1.

2. I remembered hearing about Orlando wanting better guard scoring. Sexton is a shorter deal, and seemed like a fit. I don’t have a good feel for how much the Magic value Anthony so I didn’t know how to set the price difference. I do think Orlando probably has to send some value to Utah, but again I am not sure how much.

To your second point.

McDaniels was coveted by Utah during the Gobert deal. He is a player with a lot of untapped potential. Utah could make him a 2nd or 3rd option and expose that potential to the league. He quickly improves on offense and his defense and size is already known. At 24 he isn’t even in his prime. If you believe Utah exits the tank in 2 years you keep him. If you believe they don’t you treat him like a fixer upper. He already has value to winning teams, and Utah can move him to one of them for different assets whenever they want.

Finally, Kessler isn’t going to be on a rookie scale much longer. He was drafted in 22, which makes this year 3 of 4. Cs are a hot commodity right now and he might make more than Utah likes in RFA especially as a starter. Moving him now makes sense unless Utah sees him as a core piece, and again the rebuild timing matters in that discussion.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah, the Orlando part is really bad. Maybe you take out Kessler, add Kyle Flip and send the Denver first to Minnesota? But why is a team hoping to tank for 18 more months trading for McDaniels? He’s young enough so that part is okay I guess?

And why a team with Rudy and Ant are trading for their first back? Did Ant get hurt after the win?

If the OP was looking for a 2025 first for their elite wing defender, I’d start by looking to see the best first available for Keegan Murray.

Or.. I know most our SAS fans hate my ideas but maybe McDaniels is young enough to be an exception. Seems like what you’d want with Castle and Wemby.

The team that can afford to overpay the most (that Minnesota should never trade him to).. Wiggins, Dieng, Philly first? LAC first?

[Residual-Heat]

Yeah Magic need to give up more. Atleast a 1st.

I am not a believer that McDaniels has all this untapped offensive potential. If he did, the Wolves should just keep him and trade Randle instead.

[Skybox]

ORL could reasonably add the DEN 25 frp…or, at least a few srps…to UTA.

Btw, ORL could use a temporary big too (with all of their injuries). Could Filipowski get added in for a bit more draft equity. ORL needs to add salary to match Sexton anyway. How about Cole, Jett Howard, and DEN 25 returning Sexton, Filipowski?

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah Magic need to give up more. Atleast a 1st.

I am not a believer that McDaniels has all this untapped offensive potential. If he did, the Wolves should just keep him and trade Randle instead.

He doesn't. OP earlier claimed he could score 20 points any night he wanted and someone pointed out he had scored 20 points I think once all season. It's okay that you once had high hopes for his offense, but at this point he can't be valued because he's 24 and thus might turn into a legit offensive threat. But this OP wants us to value him for things he hasn't yet shown because the OP holds optimistic views on all the players on his team. He has all their recent draft picks who aren't in the rotation as being worth their draft position or higher.

Nothing wrong with him evaluating those players highly and believing in their potential. I wish I could be more optimistic about OMax Prosper or Jaden Hardy. But we can't expect the league to value them as if they had already shown what you just hope for as a fan. He's not come around to understand this yet, but unfortunately it is the reality.

[SkyHook]

No idea what Orlando is doing in this, its just weird.

No way Utah does that. Even if I dont think those draft picks will be great ones they just aren't in a position from a rebuilding perspective to sending out draft picks/adding more protections and a rookie deal contributor for well paid players who aren't really going to move the needle in the near term. McDaniels is a role player, a well paid one at that. He fits a role that can really help winning teams. But on a team still in the talent collection phase of building, he wouldn't have the same impact. Thats just a waste of assets for them that might get them 1 or 2 wins a year? Why?

Orlando is in it for 2 reasons.

1. Money. Utah couldn’t afford it and I didn’t like any of the options involved in a 1-1.

2. I remembered hearing about Orlando wanting better guard scoring. Sexton is a shorter deal, and seemed like a fit. I don’t have a good feel for how much the Magic value Anthony so I didn’t know how to set the price difference. I do think Orlando probably has to send some value to Utah, but again I am not sure how much.

To your second point.

McDaniels was coveted by Utah during the Gobert deal. He is a player with a lot of untapped potential. Utah could make him a 2nd or 3rd option and expose that potential to the league. He quickly improves on offense and his defense and size is already known. At 24 he isn’t even in his prime. If you believe Utah exits the tank in 2 years you keep him. If you believe they don’t you treat him like a fixer upper. He already has value to winning teams, and Utah can move him to one of them for different assets whenever they want.

Finally, Kessler isn’t going to be on a rookie scale much longer. He was drafted in 22, which makes this year 3 of 4. Cs are a hot commodity right now and he might make more than Utah likes in RFA especially as a starter. Moving him now makes sense unless Utah sees him as a core piece, and again the rebuild timing matters in that discussion.

1. According to recent commentary from local + national reports, Utah sees Kessler as a core piece.

2. Kessler is 83rd percentile in EPM (70th O, 88th D) on a rookie scale contract for another 1.5y & $4.4MM then RFA. McDaniels is 52nd percentile in EPM (31st O, 88th D) on his second contract, 4.5y & $120MM; the case can be made that he's not currently earning his money. Kessler to McDaniels is a downgrade, both in terms of impact and in contract status.

[shrink]

I kind of wonder how much of this the two GMs already debated two years ago during the Gobert trade?

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Orlando just offers Cole Denver 25 1st for Sexton. Would imagine that gets rejected and id then counter with Cole + Jett + Denver 1st for Sexton.

[SkyHook]

Orlando just offers Cole Denver 25 1st for Sexton. Would imagine that gets rejected and id then counter with Cole + Jett + Denver 1st for Sexton.

Jazz already have three FRPs in 2025. Make it a 2026 FRP and I'm in.